We've Got Tonight Practice- Playing with Rasp

[MDEW]

This is just a quick recording, Using what I call "Fake" voice. I am playing with a little rasp. While growing up and singing with relatives they would condemn me for NOT using "MY NATURAL" voice. So I got stuck thinking to "Fake it" was a wrong thing to do. I think that some of this is on the right path to "Singing" rather than what I was doing before and thinking that I was "Singing" using my "Natural" voice.

   So if you would .......... Point out what is "Right" rather than just saying it sucks and I need more lessons.           Thanks.

 

[Robert Lunte]

Joe,

Its cool. Pretty choice for a song. I like the color of your voice.. has a pinch of Dylan in it... 

- Pitch is good.

- Interpretation is tasty and artful.

- You would benefit from opening up your resonance / formant with more "ou" resonance Joe... refer to the Curbing vowels... mid narrowed Blue vowel.  It would add a bit of warmth to this.

- The very last "stay...." , wavered on pitch... but what ever.

Tastey.. nice work Joe. 

[Gsoul82]

Solid, Dew. Rasp is nice and subtle. "Fake" it till' you make it

[MDEW]

Thanks Robert, Gsoul.  This was just a quick recording. Odd thing is that While singing this it sounded way deeper and less like my normal singing. After listening to it  there was not much of a noticeable difference other than a more solid tone.

[JonJon]

Not too bad really. The raspiness is good.

It only gets a little iffy where it does get into a slight kermit the frog feel like on "longing for sheltERRR" and "i keep SEARRRRCHIN". The "er" needs to be modded a bit to get away from the kermitty feel IMO.

To my ears (I could be wrong) it still sounds very unsupported...like you are barely breathing and therefore not getting much sub glottal pressure. Maybe thats where the kermitty thing comes from. Sounds like you arent getting enough air in to really engage the throat resonance and the only thing left is the nasal cavities etc

 

Just for kicks, I could blow OUT all of my air and almost get that tone just from the neck up lol. Then if I just get a decent gut full of air and sing the exact same thing, it just automatically gets way more full with more sustain etc.

As an experiment, get a big ol' gut and chest full of air and sing a few of those same phrases while trying to not let out much of the air. See how the tone changes. I dont mean a little 'pip' of breath, I mean a nice big inhale like you are at a Motley Crue concert hehe

 

And/or, do this: record maybe the first verse or whatever again, but make sure to include the breathing in and out thru the microphone so we can hear it

like this. remember when I posted the thread about this breathing lol?

 

Do it that way and let us hear your breathing

 

[Kevin Ashe]

MDEW,

I like your voice! Your sound colors on this track fit the genre really well!  Cool of you to share your talent with us! Good song selection for your voice also. I could see you singing (as far as "covers" go) a few artists really well with this style of singing. i.e. John Prine, Dylan (as Mr. Lunte suggested), Arlo Guthrie, Jackson Browne, maybe Neil Young for some M2 challenges.

I would say, maybe if your appaggio was a bit more strong we could hear you sustain some more notes and let that cool, sweet vocal texture you have (rasp included) resonate a little longer! At the end of the song (about min. 3:00) you begin to retard and your singing sounds considerably more supported there! Well Done!

[Toolless]

Well I must say that was better then the other or older link of the same song you posted

[MDEW]

Thanks everyone, I still have come a long way from about a year ago. If you listen some of those other songs on soundcloud you can hear the difference.

As Toolless mentioned I have a version of this that was recorded about 3-6 months ago(Time goes by so quick now).  Even on that recording I was stronger (vocal pressure wise) than songs before that.

I have one of Journey that I used another voice also "Fake" according to my previous ideas but people seemed to like better than my  "Natural" delivery.

I have I feeling that what I refer to a my "Old Man" voice is what you mean my Sub-glottal pressure. A thing not heard but maybe present in "Folk" music.

I came from a time and place that listening to Eagles, Aerosmith and Bad Company labeled you as a reprobate and a rebel. The other choice was BlueGrass and Country Gospel,(Think Carter Family, Flat and Scruggs, Jim and Jesse).  Tony Rice would have been considered Rock and Roll. If you do not know who any of those are look them up and you may understand.

So I will try this again, and we will see if I can get on the right track.    Thank you for your feedback.

 

[KillerKu]

I like it. I think the irony is that it complements your distinctive timbre. Keep exploring. Find what is you.

[JonJon]

Tony Rice was born in my hometown lol. (though he moved away as an infant)      He did a show here a few years back. he was still getting it pretty good.

 

I gotta say it....you reference your childhood and your perception of families expectations or feedback they gave you or whatever. at some point though, as regards singing, you need to let all of that go

Im only reading between the lines because I dont know your background that well.

Im gathering that you are saying that you came up with a strong bluegrass background, or other traditional "mountain" vocal style. But now you want to get into more traditional, middle of the road rock type sounds

 

In that case maybe youd be better off to actually try to OVERCORRECT a bit.  For instance maybe actually go for a real Dio sound. A really heavy compressed, super supported sound. Or maybe even a Bruce Dickinson tone, which can be a heavy covered sound.

Those sounds are OPPOSITE of what you have now. and you may never actually reach those sounds....but in doing so, you'll probably end up dead in the middle with a good basic rock tone

 

its kind of like if you have $50 and want to become a millionaire. Whats the best way? Well a good way is to aim to make $10 million...then even if you only get halfway there you easily reached the 1 million lol

sometimes it better to make a radical mind shift as opposed to inching along

 

Peace, JJ

[Gneetapp]

Hi MDew, I thought you've come a long way developing your sound man. I liked your tone throughout the song, except at the bridge, where it sounds like you lost focus. I think you are on the right track with your voice, and with more practice you'll make this song sound really good. I kind of agree with some folks here who say that you might benefit of using support in a better way, so you would be able to stabilize the voice. Even though I don't think that you will sound beefy with more engaged support, as I believe it is just a matter of vocal placement, but I think JonJon made an interesting suggestion of trying to sing/emulate Dickinson or Dio to get a different sound. I think it would be safe and beneficial to you to experiment, as you already know you should not yell to achieve these types of sound. Cheers

[MDEW]

5 hours ago, JonJon said:

Tony Rice was born in my hometown lol. (though he moved away as an infant)      He did a show here a few years back. he was still getting it pretty good.

 

I gotta say it....you reference your childhood and your perception of families expectations or feedback they gave you or whatever. at some point though, as regards singing, you need to let all of that go

Im only reading between the lines because I dont know your background that well.

Im gathering that you are saying that you came up with a strong bluegrass background, or other traditional "mountain" vocal style. But now you want to get into more traditional, middle of the road rock type sounds

 

In that case maybe youd be better off to actually try to OVERCORRECT a bit.  For instance maybe actually go for a real Dio sound. A really heavy compressed, super supported sound. Or maybe even a Bruce Dickinson tone, which can be a heavy covered sound.

Those sounds are OPPOSITE of what you have now. and you may never actually reach those sounds....but in doing so, you'll probably end up dead in the middle with a good basic rock tone

 

its kind of like if you have $50 and want to become a millionaire. Whats the best way? Well a good way is to aim to make $10 million...then even if you only get halfway there you easily reached the 1 million lol

sometimes it better to make a radical mind shift as opposed to inching along

 

Peace, JJ

I had not even heard of Dickinson, Coverdale, DIO until joining this forum. I did hear of Ronny James Dio but he was singing TeenPop songs in the 50s. Turns out he is the same guy

I bring up the childhood to give the understanding of how a person whose family sings can still have issues of breath management and such after 40 years of singing.  I already had the Low belly breathing with expanded ribs, pretty much  the whole concept that is written down about support involved. In other words I thought I had the Support thing covered 30 years ago.  And it is not so much a Family based psychological problem as it is that If none of the singers in the family told me I was supporting wrong then I must be doing things right.

Even when I let others know that I joined a forum to learn how to sing......... The response was "You can already sing" and "Why would you have someone else tell you how you should sing". And this is from people who sing and sound as good as any on the Radio (The country stations)

[MDEW]

58 minutes ago, Gneetapp said:

Hi MDew, I thought you've come a long way developing your sound man. I liked your tone throughout the song, except at the bridge, where it sounds like you lost focus. I think you are on the right track with your voice, and with more practice you'll make this song sound really good. I kind of agree with some folks here who say that you might benefit of using support in a better way, so you would be able to stabilize the voice. Even though I don't think that you will sound beefy with more engaged support, as I believe it is just a matter of vocal placement, but I think JonJon made an interesting suggestion of trying to sing/emulate Dickinson or Dio to get a different sound. I think it would be safe and beneficial to you to experiment, as you already know you should not yell to achieve these types of sound. Cheers

Thanks Gneetapp, This was an experiment, Now that I have the idea to use someone else's voice if you do not like the tone, I have been making a little progress. This is a lighter version of Louie Armstrong.

I have been imitating "Speaking" voices since childhood but with "singing" I had the impression from many sources that it should be natural without manipulation. Most Vocal Technique books and Videos on singing would have you do scales and sirens "Slightly Above" your speaking volume and "Relax" extrinsic and intrinsic muscles.

Imitating voices is the opposite of that. Some people may have a natural tendency to compress the vocal folds, engage the twanger and really fill the lungs before speaking but that is not my tendency with normal speech.  For imitating I purposely manipulate these elements.

Luckily for me Roberts Program has you Compress, Twang and Dampen the larynx with purpose for the sake of "Working out" the vocal mechanism. If it was presented to me like that a long time ago I would not be in the shape I am in Vocal wise.

Other programs would have you Do the Meh, Meh, Meh for resonance, Nae, Nae Nae, for twang, Buh, Buh, Buh for compression and Vocal fry for fold closure but they would have them independently with slightly above speech volume never giving the idea that these things are used purposely together ALWAYS.   Robert puts them together with Work flows and that is why there is such a difference in his program than others. AND he shows the intensity and passion that goes into it. 

 

[ronws]

On 5/30/2016 at 3:07 AM, JonJon said:

its kind of like if you have $50 and want to become a millionaire. Whats the best way? Well a good way is to aim to make $10 million...then even if you only get halfway there you easily reached the 1 million lol

 

Reminds me of Steve Martin's bit on how to make a million, tax free.

First, get a million dollars. Second, when the tax man comes around to collect the tax, remember these two words - "I forgot."

Great song choice, MDEW. The best parts were the "fake" part. Though I am going to have to channel Jens a little bit. It was not "fake" unless you entire voice is fake. Why? Because it is a sound that you were able to emit with your voice. What's different, whether you imagine an old man voice or not, is how you resonated and how you did the vowels. Which means you do have control. Which means that creating that sound was not a matter of invasive surgery, it was a matter of disregarding things told to you in the past.

Singing is mental, as mental as is martial arts. One of the few things I have had "official" lessons in is martial arts, assorted combat, armed and unarmed. In 1977, and it sticks with me to this day, my Kenpo Karate instructor (who was also my scoutmaster and a lead person in the church I was attending) pointed out that the kicks, blocks, and punches were ten percent of the art. Mentality was the other 90 percent. He was right, as I would later find from my friend who was a SEAL in Viet Nam. And would see in the Dao of Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee's viewpoint in the subject.

And I think it holds true for singing. Doing the work of training is a thing we can do. Changing our minds to accept the instructions, AND the results, that is the hard part.

Keep faking.