When Love and Hate Collide (Def Lep) cover

[Gneetapp]

Hi guys, as I got some free time yesterday I decided to record this power ballad by Def Leppard. I would appreciate it if you could tell me what you think and also tips to improve it. Keep on Rocking.

 

[MDEW]

Cool, 2 songs in one day. Somebody's working hard(Or playing hard). Sounds pretty good. It seems in this on as in the other...you have the notes but not confident in them. Perhaps practicing this one a half step higher for a little while and then bringing it back down to the key you are now playing in.

 It still sounds pretty good but you asked for tips on improving it.

[Gneetapp]

Thanks again MDEW. I felt this one was way harder to sing than the A-Ha's song, maybe because it has higher notes or the intention of power ballad. I really got to start practicing again, because I was struggling to keep the folds adducted (?) during the choruses, which I think made my pitch suffer a bit. I always ask for opinions and tips to improve. Cheers

[Jeremy Mohler]

Nice job Gneetap, I don't have much constructive criticism as your technique seems to be better than mine (especially for the high notes) but I think that MDEW's advice of raising it a step higher to give it more punch is solid.   I liked the chorus effect you put on for the chorus.  

[Gneetapp]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Mohler said:

Nice job Gneetap, I don't have much constructive criticism as your technique seems to be better than mine (especially for the high notes) but I think that MDEW's advice of raising it a step higher to give it more punch is solid.   I liked the chorus effect you put on for the chorus.  

Thank you so much for stopping by and giving a listen Jeremy. I might try practicing this song one half step higher as you guys have suggested. So it should feel easier when I sing it in the right key afterwards. Did you really like the effect?! I got that when I was playing with copies of the main vocal panned L and R. But I tried something Felipe suggested in another thread about making a copy and dragging it down to create a delay effect. I didn't like the way it sounded because it was too slapjack delay. So, instead of creating a wider offset between the original and the copies, I just decreased it to create a thicker sound. I think I did that in several parts of the song, but it really stood out in the chorus, maybe because of the high notes and the backing vocals on the backtrack. In this song I used only EQ, Compressor, Delay and Reverb, as fx. Cheers

[Jeremy Mohler]

Hell yeah I liked the effect, was tasteful and was totally in the right place being a Def Leppard cover.  And no problem man, it's the least I could do in return for your kind words and criticisms of my own covers.  Peace and love.  

[ronws]

Actually, following Felipe's mixing advice helps, as far as getting the sound. Most people don't realize how much doubling and delay Robert "Mutt" Lange used on Joe for the Pyromania album. 

MDEW offers good advice. I did something similar with a Journey song. Sang it a whole step higher for a while to force myself to break with dichotomy of "head voice" and "chest voice." The sooner I got into one voice, the easier it was to drop back down to the original key and sing it acceptably ,though I would not post because, oddly enough, I do not sound like Steve Perry. And there would be too much comparison. Even I would be guilty of that. I am human, after all.

[Gsoul82]

I'd never seen a post from you before o:

This is a momentous occasion!

I'm a little late to the party though. MDEW already covered what I had to say.

[Gneetapp]

On June 25, 2016 at 10:48 PM, ronws said:

Actually, following Felipe's mixing advice helps, as far as getting the sound. Most people don't realize how much doubling and delay Robert "Mutt" Lange used on Joe for the Pyromania album. 

MDEW offers good advice. I did something similar with a Journey song. Sang it a whole step higher for a while to force myself to break with dichotomy of "head voice" and "chest voice." The sooner I got into one voice, the easier it was to drop back down to the original key and sing it acceptably ,though I would not post because, oddly enough, I do not sound like Steve Perry. And there would be too much comparison. Even I would be guilty of that. I am human, after all.

Thanks a lot for stopping by Ronws. I will definitely try to sing it 1 step higher and see how it goes. I can totally relate to what you said about not sounding like the original singer. Funny enough, I don't struggle with that anymore. Even though my voice changes a little bit depending on the song/singer, but I always sound like myself, which I'm really OK with it. Cheers

[Gneetapp]

19 hours ago, Gsoul82 said:

I'd never seen a post from you before o:

This is a momentous occasion!

I'm a little late to the party though. MDEW already covered what I had to say.

Hi Gsoul, thanks for stopping by man! Even though this is not my first post in the review section, I think it has been a while since I last posted something. I believe it was my attempt to "I can't make you love me (by Bonnie Raitt). I even tried both versions: in the original key and one octave lower, just for kicks... I am planning on trying it again for the challenge. BTW, have you checked my other last cover? Hunting High and Low (A-Ha) 

Cheers

[MDEW]

4 minutes ago, Gneetapp said:

Hi Gsoul, thanks for stopping by man! Even though this is not my first post in the review section, I think it has been a while since I last posted something. I believe it was my attempt to "I can't make you love me (by Bonnie Raitt). I even tried both versions: in the original key and one octave lower, just for kicks... I am planning on trying it again for the challenge. Cheers

     Singing in the original key is good for when you will be singing with random bands, Karaoke, or training. When you are the singer of your own group or playing the accompaniment yourself on Guitar or piano, go with the key that makes your voice shine or fits your personality.

      When thinking about covering a song I will find the "original" version or the one I am most familiar with and also look for other covers, by other famous singers and with unknowns......... Then go with the one that best fits me and my" Style"(if you can call it that)

[Gneetapp]

Hi MDEW, I agree with you man. The thing is, I am a little lazy to record the backing track on a different key...lol. So, I just practice in the original key of the backing track. Cheers

[Collin571]

'you could have a change of' I like the voice it starts in but heart breaks the character of the voice in that moment so maybe try to reel it back from heart to hurt or make the ah more like the ah when starting arr like a pirate on that pitch.  Your ns and ds are very nasally, I think it has more to do with placement than anything.  Maybe try approaching those consonants softer and see what changes in sound occur.  At 2:05 your voice becomes more pronounced sounds like your clenching your abdominals and really delivering the air at a more intense pace.  That voice needs to blend better with your voice when you're relaxed.  That's sort of what I'm talking about with layered voice, blending the relaxed coordinations with the intense ones in terms of entire body involvement especially lower back muscles and abdominal ones.  Pay some attention to your lower back muscles when you sing how they tense up and clinch when holding back an intense flow or taking a deep breath. 

[Gneetapp]

12 hours ago, Collin571 said:

'you could have a change of' I like the voice it starts in but heart breaks the character of the voice in that moment so maybe try to reel it back from heart to hurt or make the ah more like the ah when starting arr like a pirate on that pitch.  Your ns and ds are very nasally, I think it has more to do with placement than anything.  Maybe try approaching those consonants softer and see what changes in sound occur.  At 2:05 your voice becomes more pronounced sounds like your clenching your abdominals and really delivering the air at a more intense pace.  That voice needs to blend better with your voice when you're relaxed.  That's sort of what I'm talking about with layered voice, blending the relaxed coordinations with the intense ones in terms of entire body involvement especially lower back muscles and abdominal ones.  Pay some attention to your lower back muscles when you sing how they tense up and clinch when holding back an intense flow or taking a deep breath. 

Hi Collin, thanks again for another review man. I am not sure I noticed the change in the beginning, but I will listen the song again paying more attention. To be fair, I only noticed the majority of flaws a few days later, especially thanks to these reviews. I think it takes me several listening sections to pick up all the mistakes, because I just miss them when mixing (with the exception of the major ones OFC).

Regarding the nasality, I was actually going for that sound by trying to twang a lot on the lower notes. I think I was kind of trying to emulate the original singer a little bit, as I feel my timbre sounds like his in some songs.  Regarding the change of quality in the voice, I have to agree with you, and I will listen again to check that. I think, if I remember correctly, in the first rise of the melody I started belting. The funny thing is, when the melody rose again at the "You could have a change of heart...", I changed again the quality to a more "mixed voice" approach.

Regarding my support, I think it is coming its way, because I am very conscious of my lower back and ribs muscles when I'm singing, even though I don't usually push as hard as I should.

Thanks again for the tips man. Cheers

[Collin571]

13 hours ago, Gneetapp said:

Hi Collin, thanks again for another review man. I am not sure I noticed the change in the beginning, but I will listen the song again paying more attention. To be fair, I only noticed the majority of flaws a few days later, especially thanks to these reviews. I think it takes me several listening sections to pick up all the mistakes, because I just miss them when mixing (with the exception of the major ones OFC).

Regarding the nasality, I was actually going for that sound by trying to twang a lot on the lower notes. I think I was kind of trying to emulate the original singer a little bit, as I feel my timbre sounds like his in some songs.  Regarding the change of quality in the voice, I have to agree with you, and I will listen again to check that. I think, if I remember correctly, in the first rise of the melody I started belting. The funny thing is, when the melody rose again at the "You could have a change of heart...", I changed again the quality to a more "mixed voice" approach.

Regarding my support, I think it is coming its way, because I am very conscious of my lower back and ribs muscles when I'm singing, even though I don't usually push as hard as I should.

Thanks again for the tips man. Cheers

It could've been that you're support variance had tuned itself for a better mix by that point in the song.  one thing that really helps is glissandos approach onsets in the most relaxed way possible and try to hit the pitch but if you start flat just slide up to the note by adding air pressure.  Sometimes I pretend I'm inhaling when I need to add extra support and it's almost like it clinches in just the right way and the flow becomes better.  Similar to the lift up pull back technique except for I feel as if I'm pulling back in my throat and then the lift happens automatically.  Also notes and vowels that you hold in ways you think you shouldn't (you know where you're holding something and you're not sure wether to sustain it cause it's taking so much push to sustain and also sounds kinds of shrill)  because it's too difficult are not really that difficult once you pinpoint the right support and vowel/formant tuning.  I realized this listening to Bob's advice on needing necessary tension in training and felipes advice about always needing to give a little bit more as you ascend in pitch, whether that be volume, airflow, or formant tuning.

[Felipe Carvalho]

I think its sounding very good on most of it gnee. Really tight on the phrasing this one, the verses are sounding really good and natural. The only thing you need to pay some attention here are those higher notes on the chorus... I would find a different voice to do that you know, don´t try to really sing it so much...

 

How much attention have you given to your breathing so far man?

[Gneetapp]

13 hours ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

I think its sounding very good on most of it gnee. Really tight on the phrasing this one, the verses are sounding really good and natural. The only thing you need to pay some attention here are those higher notes on the chorus... I would find a different voice to do that you know, don´t try to really sing it so much...

 

How much attention have you given to your breathing so far man?

Not so much, to be honest, Felipe.  That could be the main reason I'm almost singing in staccato during the chorus...

After I posted it, I got to listen the recording many times, and I found I was so off pitch in the first high part, and the chorus sounded so choppy. I feel my timbre sounds good more naturally in this song, especially in the 2nd half. So, I decided to invest some time on doing more Def Leppard covers...

What would you suggest regarding the voice on the chorus? Besides keeping it in one breath...

Thanks again for your review and tips,man.

[Felipe Carvalho]

I didn't find anything wrong about the phrasing man, to me it seems you are doing it in a rather good way for the song. Its those very high points of the melody that take a bit away, try to think of changing your voice, go very bright on them, even nasal, its too high to make any difference and will help making it more free.

 

I asked about the breath because it seems to me (and this is thinking of all your songs, both what is working and what is not), that you often know and do the positions you need to do, but you end up a bit short on energy, or, some instabilities appear as if you had very, very little margin for error. Usually this is related to breath support and how you organize it. If you feel its worthwhile hit me on skype sometime and lets check what you are doing with more detail. skype name is felipevoxcarvalho

[Gneetapp]

52 minutes ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

I didn't find anything wrong about the phrasing man, to me it seems you are doing it in a rather good way for the song. Its those very high points of the melody that take a bit away, try to think of changing your voice, go very bright on them, even nasal, its too high to make any difference and will help making it more free.

Yeah. I got what you are saying Felipe. The chorus is my weakest link. Even though it is a B4 (if I'm not mistaken) it is really hard for me to do it properly. I actually feel that I'm about to break into falsetto sometimes. Funny that it gets so much easier if I'm just practicing the chorus. But when I start singing the song it is just too many things going on, and I lose focus. I think it also has a lot to do with breath management and vowels. But I'm sure I will get there eventually.

52 minutes ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

I asked about the breath because it seems to me (and this is thinking of all your songs, both what is working and what is not), that you often know and do the positions you need to do, but you end up a bit short on energy, or, some instabilities appear as if you had very, very little margin for error. Usually this is related to breath support and how you organize it. If you feel its worthwhile hit me on skype sometime and lets check what you are doing with more detail. skype name is felipevoxcarvalho

I think breath management and vowels are at the moment the two most important things I really need to start to work on to improve my singing. These and basically start practicing at least 2-3 times a week, but this last year has been very difficult to find the time. I will definitely try to get a hold of you for help man. Thanks again Felipe, I really appreciate it.