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I have been doing the four pillars of singing and playing the foundation building routine video. And he keeps quoting that I need an instrument such as a keyboard or a pitch pipe

I saw this one for sale on feebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13-TONE-PITCH-PIPE-tuner-chromatic-violin-VOCALS-/121885146518?var=&hash=item1c60ebbd96:m:mZwFc-ie1VRlMlPuYUsidbg 

But it looks like it has only one octane to it and I see in the Video Robert is using an electric keyboard and using more then one octane

But my question really is; do you think this pitch pipe has enough notes on it for me to be able to practice the four pillars?

 

Thanks

2CIADB

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The pitch pipe you linked to requires too much air. I recommend Tombo brand to all my students, because you hardly have to use any air to get it to play. This is important for pitch building, since you can hum into the pipe and get immediate feedback for if you're on pitch or not.

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22 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

The pitch pipe you linked to requires too much air. I recommend Tombo brand to all my students, because you hardly have to use any air to get it to play. This is important for pitch building, since you can hum into the pipe and get immediate feedback for if you're on pitch or not.

Is this one any good? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chromatic-Pitch-Pipe-Tombo-PE13-/172169775806?hash=item28161e4abe:g:SHsAAOSwubRXEmEQ

Dose it have enough notes on it for me to pratace the four pillars?

Well on another note LOL; your students whom have used this device, have you noticed an improvment in there singing pitches?

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23 hours ago, JonJon said:

smart phone app?  or put some stuff on a CD?

 

You know I have been thinking about this a bit but always come up with not possible as I have a laptop a mobile broadband connection and a £10 ASDA phone

But my works phone is a bit more expensive, that has the android O/S on it and now I am thinking it will upload and install an app

This piano app needs to be easy enough to see or find the key and press it when driving and from the screen or menu I would need a half decent selection of keys

Do you have anything in mind please?

Not sure how playing a CD would work in this incident as I want to instantaneously jump from one note to another

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19 minutes ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

You know I have been thinking about this a bit but always come up with not possible as I have a laptop a mobile broadband connection and a £10 ASDA phone

But my works phone is a bit more expensive, that has the android O/S on it and now I am thinking it will upload and install an app

This piano app needs to be easy enough to see or find the key and press it when driving and from the screen or menu I would need a half decent selection of keys

Do you have anything in mind please?

Not sure how playing a CD would work in this incident as I want to instantaneously jump from one note to another

dunno much about smart phones. I was thinking more in line with a cd which has the scales or exercises on it etc to follow

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3 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Is this one any good? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chromatic-Pitch-Pipe-Tombo-PE13-/172169775806?hash=item28161e4abe:g:SHsAAOSwubRXEmEQ

Dose it have enough notes on it for me to pratace the four pillars?

Well on another note LOL; your students whom have used this device, have you noticed an improvment in there singing pitches?

That's the one. It will give you the base note for the training routines. It goes from A3 to A4, which is the primary training area I've seen in the program, helping you through the passagio, since it's in the middle of that scale. The E4 to E5 version works better for women, because it puts their bridge in the middle. If you have decent pitch, then you won't have an issue singing octave sirens with it. If you don't have good pitch, it will help you develop it.

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For those who don't know, 2 cats, as I suspected from his first video and later in a post he made, is a lorrie driver. And like anyone, has to work so many hours in a day to draw a check. He can't have a phone in his hand and be looking at it. He needs some thing he can raise to his mouth and create tone.

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I could have a smart phone on the go but the app/driver I would need would need to have the key/note at lest 2" thick and most probably color
coded to identify it from the other note/key

But thanks Ron
I do appreciate that you have taken the time to consider our differences and needs and different environments that we all live in within this forum

So at the moment its looking like Draven's gadget is the tool for me
Well as I have read before he has used it on a lot of his students to improve pitch
Not only that as you say, it is in the middle range for a male who is stating out (don't see many females on here sadly)

But if you have a look at the posts I made in the review my singing section then you will see I have bad pitch
But for someone with bad pitch and whom is a lorry driver that has hours of handicapped time to spare (in respect to like a blind man would)
Would this pitch pipe be the same to me as a drunken tramps blues harmonica?

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I do 95% of my training at work while driving a stand up forklift. Its a huge warehouse/distribution center. Its generally a fairly loud environment but then again that means I can find many times during the day when I can wail out without causing too many issues

 

So I have done mostly sirens. I havent really done anything pitch related...no pitch pipe etc. Maybe its not ideal, because I dont know for sure what top note im hitting etc. Yet, ive made great improvements regardless. My pitch isnt perfect but its not end of the world bad.

 

I totally discount the notion that every practice session must be "perfect". There are probably great singers who never really did focused "practice" at all....they just sang etc. That being said, of course I trian as i described. Lotttttsssss of sirens on 10 different vowels etc but its nothing super disciplined. It IS a routine of sorts, but its nothing super duper technically locked down like an exact octave siren. More like "start pretty low, siren up thru 2 bridges, vibrato top note (or not), come down all the way, back up all the way, back down to some note" lol

As we improve, then the practice can become more perfect as it needs to be

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On September 7, 2016 at 2:07 PM, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

John I need something I can hold in my hand when I am driving 

 

 

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing that. Dangerous to be driving, holding that thing and also looking at it. As for what Johns said about a CD, I think that's a great thing to do. You only really need one track that will play a note, wait a bunch of seconds so you can siren, and then play the next note. 

Honestly, I could go to my keyboard and make you a track.

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You don't need to look at the pitch pipe to use it. On the Tombo, the A is marked as well, with a bump on the bottom of the pipe. Its more difficult to play a only single note on a harmonica, but it's a similar concept in how it functions. Also, singing along to something, even to a single pitch at a time, will not give you the other feedback that helps you know if you're on key or not. Many of my students who struggled with pitch had no idea they we off pitch. And once they learned to realize they were, they still thought they were on the same note when they sang in harmony (oddly, it was usually a perfect fifth). The pipe gives you instant feedback, fluttering like crazy when you're off, and locking in when you're on. Plus, it gives you a reference note to do sirens from.

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14 hours ago, JonJon said:

I do 95% of my training at work while driving a stand up forklift. Its a huge warehouse/distribution center. Its generally a fairly loud environment but then again that means I can find many times during the day when I can wail out without causing too many issues

Yes but on a forklift you can stop it wherever you want to go to your phone

when your on the motorway you can not just stop to play with your phone

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17 minutes ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Yes but on a forklift you can stop it wherever you want to go to your phone

when your on the motorway you can not just stop to play with your phone

phone?? who said anything about a phone? lol

I do sirens with my mouth and 2 ears, and one of the ears has tinnitus

Seriously, I go thru about 2 hours of sirens. Nothing super strenuous. Actually its gotten quite easy now so ill have to step up to other things.

I also sometimes just start a few notes down from my highest note and then just wail it up higher on all vowels.

 

or, take a few of your favorite singing phrases and start them on a lower pitch and work them up higher etc. find something right in a trouble spot or bridge area and sing it over and over.

today it was this phrase, over and over:   "tell me why have weeeeeeeeeeeeeee forsaken"

 

 

be careful with that pitch pipe on the highway brother

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6 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

Many of my students who struggled with pitch had no idea they we off pitch. And once they learned to realize they were, they still thought they were on the same note when they sang in harmony (oddly, it was usually a perfect fifth).

Yer I know what you mean when you say that

At first Ron though I needed a hearing test because I could not understand I was off pitch singing cast-walk away

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41 minutes ago, JonJon said:

phone?? who said anything about a phone? lol

I do sirens with my mouth and 2 ears, and one of the ears has tinnitus

Seriously, I go thru about 2 hours of sirens. Nothing super strenuous. Actually its gotten quite easy now so ill have to step up to other things.

I also sometimes just start a few notes down from my highest note and then just wail it up higher on all vowels.

 

be careful with that pitch pipe on the highway brother

OK so I guess you are not just hitting notes on a phone and singing them

You must sound like the loopyest FLT driver anyone has ever met

I have just got the four pillars and starting the practace of the onset and sirens process

I have copies of the notes (high to low and low to high) burnt to CD that where part of the cource that I am trying to match using the eh vowel and the eh vowel only

And then the buzzing shit

It all seams very strange to me and I wonder if I am going in the right or wrong direction of it all

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1 hour ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

OK so I guess you are not just hitting notes on a phone and singing them

You must sound like the loopyest FLT driver anyone has ever met

I have just got the four pillars and starting the practace of the onset and sirens process

I have copies of the notes (high to low and low to high) burnt to CD that where part of the cource that I am trying to match using the eh vowel and the eh vowel only

And then the buzzing shit

It all seams very strange to me and I wonder if I am going in the right or wrong direction of it all

look at it this way brother. hard focused work pays off. dont worry too much if you are doing the exact right thing or not. A beginner singer is just like a beginner weightlifter, they will progress no matter what

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15 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Yes but on a forklift you can stop it wherever you want to go to your phone

when your on the motorway you can not just stop to play with your phone

Not only that but in places here in the US, it is illegal to have a mobile device in your hand while driving. One of our crew leaders is still untangling the mess from getting pulled over for the dastardly crime of calling his wife while he was driving to say that he was going to be working late. Although I cannot discount racism. He is mexican and that can be a crime, here,as well, considering the political climate and the ever present fear that an illegal alien is going to come in and do your back-breaking work that you don't want to do.

I don't know if there are places Down Under that are like that but I can imagine there are.

So, better to have bluetooth or just leave the phone alone.

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  • Administrator

 

On 9/9/2016 at 6:40 PM, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

So at the moment its looking like Draven's gadget is the tool for me

 

Well as I have read before he has used it on a lot of his students to improve pitch
Not only that as you say, it is in the middle range for a male who is stating out (don't see many females on here sadly)

 

"Cats",

I was under the impression that you had chosen Draven's suggestion. (?) As Draven mentioned, "You don't need to look at the pitch pipe to use it." Personally, I don't see any hazards using the Tombo while driving. 

With that said, and having checked out the Tombo, I would choose it as well. If you're concerned about the laws in the U.K., that is, using this device while driving, simply call your local PD.

Also, Gsoul made you a generous offer to make you some tracks. Why not try both ?

Getting to Ron's point about the legality of using mobile devices while driving. Many of our members are not aware that I'm a Retired Police Chief. During my years in law enforcement I wrote very few traffic tickets unless of course the violations were serious. Such as DWI'S, reckless driving, or just being PLAIN STUPID ! Over the years I've seen some very ignorant laws passed by politicians who had absolutely no idea what it was like to be "on the road" as a police officer. However, I'm in total agreement with the laws making it illegal to use mobile devices while driving. If I were still in law enforcement I would ticket each and every person using a phone while driving. I see it all of the time - people making calls or texting and paying no attention whatsoever to their driving. They're all over the road and are a hazard to others. Bottom line : ZERO TOLERANCE !

 

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JonJon
From what I read in your post lets make a TV mod voc song and you said you would do all the work, I kind of though you where an advanced singer and I wonder why you are drilling the basics of onsets and sirens?

Yes hear in the UK things are much the same as the US
3 penalty points and £60 fine for using a mobile phone while driving
But that only goes on your UK license as if you are Polish eastern block or hold another EU license, then you will not face prosecution
So  Boris farage-trump, Mexico-eastern block; its all the same really

But no seriously if you can not use it with out swinging all over the road then don't use it at all
I hope it will not be too much bother switching from one note to the other with this device

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1 hour ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

JonJon
From what I read in your post lets make a TV mod voc song and you said you would do all the work, I kind of though you where an advanced singer and I wonder why you are drilling the basics of onsets and sirens?

Im a bit hard to classify. Im 49 yrs old so naturally I have been singing for a long time, like everyone does, with the radio etc. Ive played guitar for like 28 years and have done many many home recordings. I know my music theory and I have a decent ear. So essentially there is no way to say im a "beginner".

On the other hand I had never studied singing at all before 2015. I never thought of myself as a singer. So before about a year ago i was clueless about the technical aspects of singing. for instance I knew it had to do with breathing and with the diaphragm, but how so? I didnt really know lol.

I had never heard terms like "bridge" or "passagio" etc. If I ever tried to sing high notes I just went into falsetto. I had never actually used a true headvoice until April 2016.

So am I an advanced singer...or a beginner? I am a little of both. I have some really nice tones using several different voice configurations blah blah. I can siren from a low note continuously up to f#5 on any vowel. Hopefully I will reach at LEAST C6 eventually.

Could I make a pro sounding album right now. Yes, I think I could.

 

That being said, im still a newb too!  I just havent got around to some of the major aspects such as strong compression, distortion blah blah. Like everyone else I need to work around my bridge areas a lot.

And I have no problem saying I doubt id be any kind of great live singer at this point. and playing guitar AND singing?? I doubt it lol.

 

So somewhere in there is your answer. Why am I doing basic stuff like sirens? Because 5 months ago I couldnt even bridge into headvoice. The sirens ARE getting sort of easy but I will keep on doing them to keep that strong baseline of technique.

 

My thought process now is to sort of strengthen the different "parts" of the voice. I:E: the different areas where voice resonates etc.

1) twangy head voice - Aretha Franklin etc

2) mask/nasal resonance. This is something I havent touched yet. Never done any witch cackle type stuff. (I know Rob is going to chime in like "do your buzzing on nasal consonants dummy!") lol

3) chesty/throaty/mouthy strength. Again, I havent done much with this yet so in essence without this and some nasal strength I CANT do a legit David Lee Roth type vibe. If you listen to my songs so far you hear smooth chest voice stuff and then the strength and power kicks in as I go into headvoice. True, but I dont want to be limited to just that. And yes, this IS in T4P under stuff like "Vinnie Belts" etc

You gotta understand though. I was the kid who put together model cars and planes...and looked at the instructions AFTERWARD. is it ideal? no, but it is what it is.

4) Compression, distortion in all ranges etc. Need major work on these. So far I like my songs well enough but im nowhere near where I want to be. Im singing "rock" but the voice is really clean so far lol. I need to dirty it up a bit. Chris Cornell and Sebastian Bach etc, they sound great but they are only humans. We can do what they've done (within reason)

 

So thats where I am. I'll still keep doing sirens though just to keep the whole voice as connected and consistent as possible.

 

 

Its like baseball. A little peewee player needs to learn hitting, catching, throwing, running. A pro all star works on....hitting, catching, throwing, running.

 

peace, JJ

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