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How Can I Sing High "ee" Vowels?

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Birdy

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Hey all, amateur singer here.

I have a question regarding singing high "ee" sounds/vowels.

I'm working on a song with a very high chorus section ("All Ends Well"), at first it was way out of my range, but after a few months of practice I can now sing it very easily.

The only problem is I can't sing an "ee" vowel in high pitch.

For example, I need to sing the word "believe" (C5), but I just can't sing the "lieve" part of the word, I have to change it to another vowel (a/o/u and such).

I feel like the "ee" sound just won't come out, while the rest of the vowels come out easily.

By the way, English is not my native language, so maybe it has something to do with my accent and the way I pronounce "ee"?

Any help on why does that happen or how can I improve it?

Thanks!

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"Ee" is a very closed vowel, definitely too closed for a C5. Even on much lower notes, I have my students sing a shade of "ih" instead. At a C5, the vowel is modified much farther back, where it becomes mroe of an "ih/a/ou" with a narrowed embouchure - open horizontally but narrowed vertically to help support the vowel being farther back. I also often use a dipthong to help vowels sound the way you want. That mean syou may sing a shaded/covered "ih: like above, but you close the word with an "ee" on the very end. That way you're not trying to sing an "ee", but to most everyone else it sounds like you did. The word comes out more like "buhlihv" when sang, using a very small "ee" right before the "v".

 

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3 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

"Ee" is a very closed vowel, definitely too closed for a C5. Even on much lower notes, I have my students sing a shade of "ih" instead. At a C5, the vowel is modified much farther back, where it becomes mroe of an "ih/a/ou" with a narrowed embouchure - open horizontally but narrowed vertically to help support the vowel being farther back. I also often use a dipthong to help vowels sound the way you want. That mean syou may sing a shaded/covered "ih: like above, but you close the word with an "ee" on the very end. That way you're not trying to sing an "ee", but to most everyone else it sounds like you did. The word comes out more like "buhlihv" when sang, using a very small "ee" right before the "v".

 

Thank you for your input!

I'm familiar with this method and I do use it on other songs.

But in this specific song the singer sings a definite "ee" (or at least that's how it sounds to me), and I want to achieve that sound as well.

So I guess it is possible?

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I can guarantee you it's a covered "ih" and not an "ee"and only putting the "ee" on the closing as if a part of the "v" consonant. It may be shaded towards the "ee" as an "ih", but you can't sing an "ee" that high without it turning into quack or hyper compressed..

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1 hour ago, Draven Grey said:

I can guarantee you it's a covered "ih" and not an "ee"and only putting the "ee" on the closing as if a part of the "v" consonant. It may be shaded towards the "ee" as an "ih", but you can't sing an "ee" that high without it turning into quack or hyper compressed..

I'll take a close listen to the song, I happen to have the track with almost only vocals.

If I think it's a solid "ee", I'll upload the clip and ask you to take a listen as well if you don't mind.

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Title of song and artist would be helpful.

I look for live performances of the song by the artist in question. I often find that even they do not sing it the same way as on the recording. What you can sing once in a studio one phrase at a time may not be viable live.

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In addition to what MDEW said, we also hear our own voice very differently in our own head than others hear it as a third party, unless amplified where we hear it the same. Just last night I was teaching someone how to tune their formant and modify the vowel to be more covered. He thought it felt and sounded odd until he ehard it as the listener rather than the origin of the sound. It felt and sounded very different in his head, but upon listening back, it sounded like the exact same vowel the whole time he increased in pitch. All that to say, an "ih" vowel, especially when modified back to an "ih/ah/ou", will sound very much like an "ee" to the listener, even more especially if it closes into an "ee" at the very end.

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2 minutes ago, MDEW said:

Title of song and artist would be helpful.

I look for live performances of the song by the artist in question. I often find that even they do not sing it the same way as on the recording. What you can sing once in a studio one phrase at a time may not be viable live.

I mentioned the title of the song: "All Ends Well" (by Alter Bridge).

I'm aware that singers sings different live, and that studio stuff can be one phrase at a time.

But I myself sing only at the studio, and also I would like to be able to achieve that ability, even if it's just for the challenge ;)

I'll take a listen to a live show and see how he signs it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

In addition to what MDEW said, we also hear our own voice very differently in our own head than others hear it as a third party, unless amplified where we hear it the same. Just last night I was teaching someone how to tune their formant and modify the vowel to be more covered. He thought it felt and sounded odd until he ehard it as the listener rather than the origin of the sound. It felt and sounded very different in his head, but upon listening back, it sounded like the exact same vowel the whole time he increased in pitch. All that to say, an "ih" vowel, especially when modified back to an "ih/ah/ou", will sound very much like an "ee" to the listener, even more especially if it closes into an "ee" at the very end.

I always record myself when I sing.

Litteraly everything I sing is recorded, so I'll always be able to listen back properly.

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I've taught that song quite a few times. He's definitely in an "ih" position, saying buh-LIH-eev, emphasis on the "ih" being sang before closing into an "eev". The "ee" is barely there, ensuring he's not percieved as singing "buh-lihv". Think if the "ih" as being a very relaxed "ee".

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26 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

I've taught that song quite a few times. He's definitely in an "ih" position, saying buh-LIH-eev, emphasis on the "ih" being sang before closing into an "eev". The "ee" is barely there, ensuring he's not percieved as singing "buh-lihv". Think if the "ih" as being a very relaxed "ee".

That's cool!

Could you please give me a few example words that have the "ih" sound in them?

Is it like the word "high"?

Like I said, English is not my native language so I don't know how to correctly read all the different vowels.

Thanks!

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19 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

Live, give, gift, lift, bliss, kiss, miss, stiff, bill, kill, and the like. Although for something with a shade of "ee" in it, heal, feel, meal, steal, etc. Like I said, it's a very relaxed "ee", which feels more like an "ih" when sang.

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking.

My native language has no fineness whatsoever, so neither my ears nor my mouth can distinguish between "ih" "ee".

Any suggestions for someone who can't tell the difference?

Or rather, how can I sing a high pitched "ih"? Because I think I can't do that as well.

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15 minutes ago, MDEW said:

You can think of it as a hooty EE. an E without the spreading of the lips and less buzziness of an EE. " Michael McDonald"..... "What a fool BeLieves, He Sees. "

I don't think I know exactly what you mean, but I'll guess I'll try!

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11 minutes ago, Birdy said:

I don't think I know exactly what you mean, but I'll guess I'll try!

Listen to Michael McDonalds" song. When he sings the phrase "What a fool Believes" the last syllable of Believe goes into a Softer form of EE. Any form of writing a sound is hard to explain. The sound seems to come from BEHIND the nose and soft palate as opposed to a Hard EE that buzzes in the hard palate/nose area

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5 minutes ago, MDEW said:

Listen to Michael McDonalds" song. When he sings the phrase "What a fool Believes" the last syllable of Believe goes into a Softer form of EE. Any form of writing a sound is hard to explain. The sound seems to come from BEHIND the nose and soft palate as opposed to a Hard EE that buzzes in the hard palate/nose area

Thanks! What's the name of the song?

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2 minutes ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Cant you just find an piano or app and sing the ee on it's own at a note where you feel comfortable with and then slowly slowly move up a note until you get to where you want to be

Yeah, I can, but then I'll simply get stuck in a certain note, what I need is guidance to show me how to get pass it, because I feel that I'm doing something wrong.

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2 minutes ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

What note do you get stuck on and what is happening when you try? have you get your mouth in the correct position?

That is basically what we are trying to accomplish by modifying to IH. An EE will make the mouth spread to wide and lift the back of the tongue too much.

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All great advice.  Just would like to add what you want to do is "think in" the modification.  The brain will get the message of your intent and provide instruction to the voice. It's very subtle  You don't want to have to sing a word like "me" and just turn it into a "mih."  Think it in.

An EE up high needs space.  All depends on the particular singer.

Try this just as an experiment:

 Sing a nice comfortable ee on one note.  Then while you sustain the ee, do nothing but slowly open and close your mouth and hear and take note of the change to the vowel. Hear how the vowel changes as you open your mouth?  Do you hear the "ih" coming in?  Notice how it's nearly impossible to maintain the strict "ee" sound?

Hope i've helped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hey all, I've tried everything you said (thank you again by the way), but no luck.

I uploaded a short sample of the chorus, you can hear the original vocals pretty well here.

So when he sings "believe" I can't get that sound, whether you call that an "ee" or an "ih" or whatever, I still can't get that.

Any help?

Believe.mp3

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