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2 cats in a dust bin

Vocal tone exercises

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1 hour ago, Robert Lunte said:

I don't "get" why CVI and Estill offer good ideas, but then fail so miserably on what to practice and how to practice. There is this strange philosophy around, " we are only going to present information and ideas, .. but we are not going to provide for you content to train with or teach you how to apply the ideas".

It is because of the focus of their business. The books are not meant to offer you everything you need to train yourself. They are specifically designed in a way that you feel the need to train with one of their certified coaches. Thus, they create a demand for CVT coaches. And the cool thing about that business idea is that they also are the only ones who can "supply" CVT coaches because you need to take their course in Denmark to become a CVT coach.

Of course there will be some students who are able to train effectively with what they offer in the book.

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23 minutes ago, benny82 said:

It is because of the focus of their business. The books are not meant to offer you everything you need to train yourself. They are specifically designed in a way that you feel the need to train with one of their certified coaches. Thus, they create a demand for CVT coaches. And the cool thing about that business idea is that they also are the only ones who can "supply" CVT coaches because you need to take their course in Denmark to become a CVT coach.

Of course there will be some students who are able to train effectively with what they offer in the book.

 

Exactly why I was saying you could do more with it once you get the fundamentals down. It's usable without a certified coach, but it's more usable for somebody who has been working on their voice for a couple years than someone starting out.

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39 minutes ago, benny82 said:

It is because of the focus of their business. The books are not meant to offer you everything you need to train yourself. They are specifically designed in a way that you feel the need to train with one of their certified coaches. Thus, they create a demand for CVT coaches.

Actually I am aware of this. I guess they have no little interest in offering a service to consumers. It is focused on teacher training. Hmm...  I guess I never wanted to do that. I wanted to offer something that anyone can get answers to and start training. Even though it is not the better business model apparently.

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19 minutes ago, Gsoul82 said:

Exactly why I was saying you could do more with it once you get the fundamentals down. It's usable without a certified coach, but it's more usable for somebody who has been working on their voice for a couple years than someone starting out.

Completely. Take a raw beginner and ask them to "start training" from ONLY the CVI book?  90% will never get anywhere. No foul to CVI or the person with the book. It is just, they don't have what they need to train and actually apply it, and CVI doesn't want to offer it to "that" guy. They want to force "that" guy to go take a lesson with one of their teachers, which fuels their business model.

I preface this by saying there is nothing wrong with any of this. It just how they choose to do business and reach students.

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thats one way to see it, personally i dont like CVT teachers (this is about the way they teach, i have had several lessons with 3 of them during a couple of years and they never gave me any results, also their lessons are mostly 99,9% repeating things you already know from the book), but the CVT book is excellent, i use that, mixed with singing success techniques for extending usable range/mix (then you shape everything with CVT :) ). 

 

this is completely my opinion:

i think the biggest fault on the CVT book and lessons (which is what i cover/patch using SS) is the way they explain and teach support, which is to me way too outdated, just focusing on the lower core and ribs and moving everything gradually wont do sh*t for you, you have to really learn how to influence your VOICE with those muscles, so the exercises have to be 100% about this connection and nothing more, like singing success's exercise of moving creaking up in the range and being able to clean it into a balanced mixed voice. CVT wont teach you this. but as i said, this is my opinion, my personal experience, we are all different, so in general we all need slightly different approaches :) 

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23 hours ago, geran89 said:

"And this is why I do not think this book has any value to me!!!"

that sounds a bit arrogant if you havent studied the book,

Chapter 3 in saids book is about, choosing vocal modes and choosing sound colors.
I have read it twice now and I still don't get it, so I am not to bothered about reading any further

Well if the files accidental gets deleted somehow at some point then I am not bothered

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44 minutes ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Chapter 3 in saids book is about, choosing vocal modes and choosing sound colors.
I have read it twice now and I still don't get it, so I am not to bothered about reading any further

Well if the files accidental gets deleted somehow at some point then I am not bothered

very well :P 

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