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Don't Stop Believin' - 2nd attempt

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Ok - I re-recorded the beginning of this song about an hour ago. I've been working on this song for several weeks now. The first time I posted this I wasn't happy with the beginning of the song. I've been working on a lighter registration up in the A4 - B4 area. This is tricky for me because I want to belt everything in that range. I feel much more comfortable with this song now even though there are a couple spots I'm still not happy with.

Please let me know what you think. Thank you!

Geno

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10370969

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Hello, Geno!

I can´t hear any weak spots, Geno, this was a joy to listen to. For me it was perfect.

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Such great, great singing, Geno, as always! The only critisism I could give is that I personally would have liked the sound to be slightly more on the twangy side and slightly less on the dopy side (most noticable in the beginning of the song). That's just a personal preference. But note that it doesn't apply to all notes - you kind of get a more balanced sound a bit more into the song. I might just be nitpicking here because, after all you want to find your OWN voice and I think you're very, very close. Awesome, man. And I liked that part where you added grit. By the way, that gritty part and many others sounded a bit like Ken Tamplin :) . And that's a compliment. Refresh my memory. Which vocal programs have you been using?

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Note, Geno, that I might say the same thing to Ken Tamplin - that I'd prefer him to be slightly less dopy :) . So you're in great company. You do know that he sings like that. I guess he's going after as "many" sound as possible or something. Both of you have great voices. Frankly, I think that if you just continue doing what you've been doing, your voice will automatically adjust itself in the near future in terms of high and low frequencies until you find a balance that you like the most. Have a nice day, man!

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Olem - Thank you!

akarawd - How are you doing with KTVA? I just started Stage 3 about a month ago. For me it is the most difficult one to master. He sings very lightly through the difficult E4 - C5 (and above) range. This was not easy for me. I'm using the CVT Neutral excersizes as a supplement and it is helping.

jonpall - thanks for your comments. I know exactly what you mean about the twang. I've got the original Journey on a parallel track and every once and a while I'll switch it on to hear how Steve Perry does it. And he uses a lot more twang than I do. I finally feel comfortable with the lighter singing and I will now work on more twang - on the beginning part. I'm happy with the middle parts with the grit - I didn't re-record those parts except for a couple of phrases.

I've been using KTVA since January 2010 mastering each stage before going to the next. I'm finally on Stage 3. This will probably keep me occupied for the next 6 months. Prior to KTVA - it goes all the way back to my youth when I took "classical" lessons because that was the only voice instruction available where I grew up (no skype back then). I've literally gained an octave and a half with since KTVA. I'd never be able to sing this song without the KTVA program.

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I've been doing stage 1 religiously for 7 months and it helped every aspect of my singing - the "ee" still gives me headaches though and

I've ve contacted Ken for my 1st skype lesson, so we'll see.

I've just started doing stage 2 and experimenting with vowel mods etc. Singing softly in that range is sth I've achieved and

what seemed to be missing for me. I'm slowly putting on more weight to the sound (like going from non-breathy neutral to curbing I guess)

but I'm being extra careful as I don't want to revert back to my "shouting" habits after all the groundwork I've done.

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Geno, out of curiousity, how do you make the transition from practising scales to singing songs?

And another question, I can hear some SLS techniques in your voice. The cry sound. The relatively low larynx. Would that make any sense? Have you worked on that a bit? Also, I once saw a bit of Ken's instructional at a friend's house and to me his exercises sounded a lot like basic SLS exercises. What do you think is the main difference between Ken's stuff and SLS?

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Third question if you don't mind, Geno :) : How loud are you singing? I'm guessing that you're at medium to slightly above medium volume, right? Kind of like the center of curbing. I've been thinking a bit how this compares to what Jamie Vendera is singing and I think that his "full voice" siren type of singing has you singing close to maximum volume. Do you agree? Once again, I liked that clip of yours a lot - to the point of it just being a joy to listen to more than just once - and I've been actually been listening to it several times just for fun and enjoyment.

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I thought it sounded great and I agree with jonpall, the beginning could have used more twang and less weight.

You changed the mix after the first chorus and it sounded brighter and fuller, too.

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jonpall - thanks for the comments. I do Ken's excersizes every day if I can. Maybe 45min or an hour if I'm lucky. Right now I'm trying to master the stage 3 excersizes which are a challenge, so I'm taking a little extra time on some of them. I try to take a break and then run through whatever song I'm working on. Currently I'm spending a lot more time on excersizes than the song itself.

I never really did any of the SLS stuff but seeing some of the seth riggs videos I would say a lot of those excersises are the same as Ken's, like the lip roll, and the 1.5 octave arpeggios. Then there's Ken's tongue excersise which I haven't seen in anyone else's program. The Stage 3 excersizes have some interesting scale patterns that really work the transition points - in and out of them.

I'm singing pretty strongly except in the beginning, which used to be loud. To add the grit or whatever that is I'm leaning into the sound pretty much. It isn't always healthy. I've only been putting on the grit during the recording session because if I try to practice it is feels wrong. I just don't know how to do this healthy yet unfortunately.

I'm really glad you like the song. In the beginning I ran everything through a phase shifter and a plugin that emulates old vinyl LP recorded in the 70's. And then I morph into a modern sound when the drums kick in. I was trying to create the effect of a movie that starts out in the past in black and white, and then jumps into current time in color. I don't know if that is apparent or too subtle?

Thanks again for all your feedback,

Geno

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Listening to it again - yes, it seems that you're singing louder when you get longer in the song, kind of like it starts of purly curbing but then overdrive starts to mix in with curbing, although these days I use CVT only when it suits me (often when I have a problem and can't figure it out) but otherwise I simply "sing". For medium volume stuff, using the cry/hold is good and for very loud stuff, twang plus a yawn sensation (a la Vendera) seems to work well for me (but it takes more effort).

Your clip never gets really twangy but I'm not sure if it would be any better. You have to be careful not to lose your current skills when experimenting with something new.

I like your recording technique as well, yes. You obviously know a bit more than just the basics of recording.

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I thought it sounded great and I agree with jonpall, the beginning could have used more twang and less weight.

You changed the mix after the first chorus and it sounded brighter and fuller, too.

Thanks Ron - Yeah in the beginning I'm using a lighter weight which I've only recently learned how to do up there in the G#4 to B4 range. It is definitely not as bright, and Steve Perry I believe sings with a lighter registration too, but he uses a lot more twang. And then in the middle of the song I'm belting it which automatically brightens it. I'm going to work on twang or at least brightening up some words a bit more in the beginning. Thanks for your feedback.

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these days I use CVT only when it suits me (often when I have a problem and can't figure it out) but otherwise I simply "sing".

That's funny because I'm doing the same thing lately. Ken's approach (and other program's approach) is like the "single" voice, where you work at seemless transitions so you have one big range. CVT explains the transition between modes with separate excersises, but I like singing these large 1.5 and double octave arpeggios where you work at having one continuous voice and all the transitions become automatic. If I had to stop and think about going in and out of different modes...it kindof gets in the way and becomes a bit technical.

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the "ee" still gives me headaches though

Likewise - the "ee" is still tricky for me. Ken's modification to "eh" through the passagio works well, but I often revert back to "ee" in this area and get myself in trouble.

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Ken seems to sing with pretty much full volume or very close to it. Is that what he teaches in his instructional set?

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jonpall - Ken does say he likes to belt. But in his Stage 2 and Stage 3 he gets into lighter (very light - like neutral) excercises, and going back and forth between light and hard. So I know he can sing just about anything he wants. I think it's more of his personal choice to belt on his song demonstrations.

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Very good singing.

However, I was under the impression that your voice was suppressed a little bit, especially in verses.

Maybe there is nothing wrong with it, maybe it is my sick imagination only :) but maybe your support isn't excellent in this song and you should add more twang. The choice is yours.

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By the way, my comment about twang was in no way a criticism. Just a stylistic observation. The whole effort was great.

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By the way, my comment about twang was in no way a criticism. Just a stylistic observation. The whole effort was great.

geno, can i ask you a favor? can you contact me?

i don't see a way to contact you, i'd like to ask a question off forum if i may?

bob

videohere@earthlink.net

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By the way, my comment about twang was in no way a criticism. Just a stylistic observation. The whole effort was great.

Ron - no problem at all. I appreciate the comments.

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Very good singing.

However, I was under the impression that your voice was suppressed a little bit, especially in verses.

Maybe there is nothing wrong with it, maybe it is my sick imagination only :) but maybe your support isn't excellent in this song and you should add more twang. The choice is yours.

devaitis - thank you for your comments.

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This was definately a joy to listen to! You're a very talented singer, and it shows how much hard work you've put into your voice! I don't think it would sound better with more twang, but maybe it could help you with a more healthy approach to the grit? It sounds great though!

I'v recently started with the KTVA as well, I'm on second stage now. I think it's a very good approach, and I also experience being able to sing with a lighter configuration through the passagio.

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