My ongoing rock tenor training - U2 and AC/DC covers

[jonpall]

Hi guys,

I'm going to post 2 clips of me singing very difficult songs that I recorded yesterday, U2's "Pride (in the name of love)" and AC/DC's "You shook me all night long". Those performances are not good enough yet for me to ask my band to perform them live, IMO. But hopefully, I'll get to that level one day. That would be pretty cool. I'm posting this both to record my current skill level, which has been increasing and possibly to get some feedback from you guys if you spot any obvious errors in my technique.

The first one is Pride (I used the very first vocal take, unedited):

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21707456/Pride_Johnny_.mp3

And here's You shook me all night long:

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21707461/You_shook_me_all_night_long_Johnny_.mp3

That one is VERY tough to sing and I can't really do this on a consistant basis. This was the fifth take, although it's not edited in any way, so it's pretty much a live recording, just like Pride (in the name of love). There are many places in here that I really dislike, particular in the beginning, but still I think there are ok runs here and there. I'm tempted to go back and at least re-record the first half of the first verse but I'm not going to because I want to hear what I can do in a single take. But it was really fun to record.

For both songs, I got the backing tracks from the net. Now, if anyone of you actually like those takes, it would be a pleasant surprise for me, but the point is that I want to improve and eventually be able to sing slightly better than this all the time.

With regards,

jonpall.

[jonpall]

Anyone care to comment?

[kalapoka]

Jonpall...I liked both of them! And actually I thought the AC/DC one was done better than the U2 (although the Ac/DC suffers a bit in sound quality) Overall they were really good!

Fahim

www.amfahim.com

www.facebook.com/iamfahim

[analog]

Jonpall,

sounded great man. The U2 is tough one. I think you're 90% there. I'm hearing some tension...let the twang and support work instead of VF. Really liked the AC/DC. You'll have to give me some pointers!

[Jens]

Man jonpall youve got many aces upi your sleave! greatjob realy liked you shook me all night long :D

[gno]

Jonpall - great singing! You really have Pride down - I'd say that is ready for live for sure. You have ACDC down really good too - you can tell it is not all the way in your voice yet on some of the verses - but very close. The high choruses are great. Really good technique up there high and the right amount of distortion. Well done!

[jonpall]

Thanks for the kind words, all. It's especially cool to get this kind of feedback from such awesome singers as yourselves. I just can't do this shit well enough on a consistant basis to do it live yet, but with more training and the help I've received from this web site, my hopes are up Keep rockin'!

[g0dvollie]

The AC/DC song sounds like you're trapped in your head voice. It also sounds like some breath is escaping in the tone. I would almost say it sounds like falsetto and a bit fake. Nice attempt at it, but to be more authentic it needs to be brought down into more of a mix instead of being so high.

[jonpall]

g0dvollie, you're spot on. This is exactly what I dislike about that recording, although I think it's slightly better in You shook me all night long than in Money talks. It's too falsetto-ish and too breathy, which means that it's hard for me to sing those decending lines from B4 to G4 without sounding like a witch (or Brian Johnson on a very bad day, when he sometimes sounds too falsetto-ish. In the early days, he rarely did, but later he sometimes had that sound). But I'd very much like to get rid of it. I can actually do it, i.e. make it sound better, if I take pauses between the lines, because my support hasn't been perfected yet, along with how to grit high notes - but now I think I know how to do it and I'm going to practise like mad. Thanks, dude!

[Seventh Fear]

I'm going to be straight "Don't sing that ACDC song again it's out of your range" it sounded like you were straining to hit the notes and you went out a few times and it's a comon mistake with singers covering ACDC as they think they have to sing up in the clouds.

My band do this track and I can say it is difficult but i have a high range and have experimented rehersed and nailed it after six hard months so sing it in your own voice again and again until you get it then try adding a little grit here and there but at this stage it will damage your voice and not worth it.

all the best to you and respect

[Jens]

Seventh fear... Just because a song is more challenging for you doesnt not mean you will hurt yourself, you cant realý hear strain you know...

[jonpall]

Seventh Fear. No offence taken. I know perfectly well that I can't sing this song live without butchering it - yet. And this was the best take. So I won't put a song like that into our set list for a long time. I have to be nailing it very well many, many rehearsals in a row before I'll do that. But hopefully, by working on it a lot, I will eventually be able to sing stuff like this. That's pretty much why I posted the song here, so I would get comments on where my problems lie and how to fix them. It would be cool to hear your take on this song so I can understand better what you're saying, though.

[Seventh Fear]

try getting the malisa cross dvd's The Zen of Screaming I found then very usefull i'll post my version of Highway to Hell on here soon and you will hear what i meant by making a song your own by singing it your way rather than copying another vocalists style.

take it easy and if there's any backing tracks you may need give me a shout and i'll forward them on as i have hundreds from Journey to Megadeath (i use them to practis to) ;)

[Seventh Fear]

Jens, If you keep trying to sing a song that is out of your range in the end you will strain to get the High notes which will push your voice over the limit then you are open to hurting your voice, but there many alternative way's to sing a song like this rather than copying the original vocal watch the video of Devas Live when they sing you shook me all night long by ACDC it is amaving http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULmC8JTTVy0

[Jens]

No seventh fear i dont agree, to be able to sing high song you gotta try and practice those pitches. You need to work on high pitched songs if you wanna sing them, incorporate them with good technique.

So your point is if he trained on that song making it better for lets say 5 months he would sound worse in the end?

In singing specialy nothing realy is black and white, what works a way for you does not nessecarily work for the person standing next to you.

Your mimicing sounds all the way from the moment you started forming words with your mouth til now, a personal sound and voice and not copying someone is an illusion.

[jonpall]

Seventh Fear, I'm not sure if I understand you - are you talking about simply singing songs like that in a lower key or just change the melody so that the highest notes aren't as high as in the original recording? If so, that's very valid and I and lots of people have done that, but one of the key thoughts of the people on this forum is that you can improve on your singing and your range. That link you sent isn't the greatest example, because I've heard so many people describe this as the worst cover in music history or something Some songs are great because of their beautiful melody. I think that most of the best AC/DC songs are great because their sheer power, particularly in the guitars and vocals. That's why I'm not sure AC/DC songs will sound that good if you lower the key significantly - not as well as, say, some Beatles songs. You kind of HAVE to scream them, to do them justice. Also, I'd like to be able to create songs of my own in a similar style one day. But anyway, thanks for the pointers.

I do agree with you that if I STRAIN to reach those high notes, I might hurt myself. That's why I don't do that, but try to use the proper techniques. Many people have done that and succeeded. Even in opera - I believe that many tenors didn't really have that great range to start with. They got that range via practising. Baritones, too. Straining is a singer's enemy, I know that perfectly well.

[aldertate]

hey there Jonpall.. I like your U2. Especially your lower register singing a lot.. focus on vowels, they're not all centered yet (trust me, I can relate). .. and in the chorus.. ..shorten the consonants and focus on how the focal point in your hard pallet shift as it's moving to the upper notes. Those are upper register notes (B4-F#4 me thinks)...and you're pushing them into the front registers a bit. Twang is great for keeping the pitch from falling back, however it also doesn't prevent the pitch from moving forward.. I think you could have a warmer sound in your upper voice. In fact, I hear a sweet tenor sound... ala early Carerras. (and that's a wonderful thing)

The fact is you have B4's is awesome...... Gigli only had a B4 and he is renowned for his voice (one of the greats).

FWIW stay away from Melissa Cross. Just ignore her. A dvd will never be a substitute for a trained set of ears.

Don't worry about weight, power, or any of that stuff.. feel the energy of the lower note ascend to the upper. The warmth comes from balancing the pitch.. here.. check out Bjorling's Ingemisco...

This is arguably the greatest tenor of the past century.. and he's singing a real bastard of a piece. Bjorlings balance throughout his range allowed him to have 'One Vocal' sound throughout his range. That gave him unbelievable freedom.

The center of vibration is going to shift more towards the mask as well as move a bit higher.. that's normal.. completely and totally normal. However, it will maintain more of the consistency with your lower register...

In all honestly, you're not using a good chunk of your voice, and you'd have a good bit more resonance and a sweeter sound once you get that balance hooked up. It will get more resonant and have more shimmer (due to the overtones).

Granted, you're not singing opera, however.. the same rules apply. You have a wonderful voice, and you could have a lot of fun with it. However, if you're not balanced in the upper register, then your passagio is also unbalanced.... over time....the things that unbalance the voice may damage it if you sing a lot.

But nice job.. take care of your voice. You've got a sweet instrument there, and it's truly a gift.

I'd recommend finding a good teacher in the area... and by a good teacher.. find one that's familiar with the tenor voice and has had proven success in training them. Work through your passagio with them. The key to the upper register lies in safely navigating the passagio.

But good luck!

ps... stay away from grit as much as you can.. no offense to anyone.. using it as an 'effect', or in the studio..is common... but minimize its usage in the live arenas. It's a cool effect when used in moderation, but dangerous if used too much.

[Freddie]

Really nice sound especially on the low part of Pride...in the chorus of that song. Try leaning towards Ee as in sit on "Name" of love. Thats how Bono does it ... and I think that is a significant thing in the song.

[Jens]

"stay away from grit as much as you can.. no offense to anyone.. using it as an 'effect', or in the studio..is common... but minimize its usage in the live arenas. It's a cool effect when used in moderation, but dangerous if used too much"

None taken,but i cant agree with your statement

The thing with distortion is that it's created with the falsefolds and shaping of the vocaltract, this makes it totaly harmless if the technique is good. If not on the other hand you can hurt yourself, but thats how it is with all singing techniques.

You can make the comparison to opera, alot of people lose their voices trying to sing opera does that make opera dangerous?

With the right understanding and training you can sing with distortion almost as long as without as with all effects it requires a little bit more support.

Other then that great post! I realy like you approach :)

[Snax]

The AC/DC track kicked ASS buddy! VERY good job on sounding like the younger Brian Johnson. I've been trying to achieve that tone since my recent surgeries (tonsillectomy and sinuses) but still need lots of work. You sounded wicked on the chorus in particular!!!

[jonpall]

Thanks a lot, Snax! I really appreciate it, although I know I've got lots of work to do to make it better and more consistant. Are you back on the forum after a short break? I hope so. You always keep the discussions here interesting. Hope you are doing allright in Canada!

[ronws]

You've got the range and resonance for AC/DC. You were out of breath and all I could think was that you wouldn't have strained if you zipped up your vocal chords just a little more, like you did on the really high part at the end. Right there, you hit full volume and tone, and probably relaxed a bit, too, I bet. Get that vocal zip in the lower part of the register. The performance was fine but your voice will sound fuller by the abduction.

I catch myself making similar mistakes. I get too excited to "get it right" instead of just having fun.