Silent Lucidity - cover

[ronws]

Once again, huge-o-mongous thanks to fellow member and good friend, Keith Goehner for both providing the backing track and mixing the results.

(link removed by me.)

[forest_gimp]

I really like the beginning, its nice to hear you singing that low ( low Gs and i think you are singing a low E with the help of vocal fry :-) ).

I found the second half less enjoyable anthough i like your timbre. I feel it lacks control on the high spots, but more importantly, your mic gets overloaded whennever you raise the pitch. I had the same problems with Audacity... I had to sing three meters away from the mic and even there my voice would sound compressed or muffled.

[ronws]

Yeah, there is clipping and I may have to re-record and see if I can adjust levels to get rid of that. And Keith mixes it vocal prominent, so every little thing is there.

And yes, that was fry for "life."

And more of a growl for "or has it just begun?"

[ronws]

Honestly, the low parts were my greatest source of trepidation in approaching this song, something a white whale, for me.

Only to find that the whole song is a beast, especially with all-thumbs approach to recording. I used the condenser mic, which is so sensitive, making it easier to get the low and quiet parts. But easily overloads, else where, though that may be input levels.

[MDEW]

:) Thanks Ronws, I needed that. (I've had a bad night. My wifes' night was worse) Just to a hear a message that someone will be watching over you is a good thing. Whoever your GOD is just remember that he can send messages from some of the strangest places. This time you were the message bearer.

You sounded like Ronws throughout the song. High and Low. Did you have the DEMON WIZARD Baritone voice associated with the song? No, of course not. And yes it did have an overall effect on the feel of the song.

For one take, start to finish, ( I can only assume that you did that because you tell us that it is the way you record) Not bad. there were a few wobbles here and there.

In a studio taking the the time to smooth out the rough spots and add effects like the big boys do, you could do just as good a job as anyone on this.

Thank you for fullfilling your promise/threat of sending your version of this song. :cool:

[ronws]

It's funny because I thought I was wobbly in the low end. The very lowest notes, I thought I would mangle those beyond recognition but they turned out alright.

Yes, one take, all the way through. But this was take 1049 and one-half, I think. Botched a lyric, went pitchy bad enough for me to erase the track, timing off in another, bad mic proximity (still need to work on that.) And, I don't seem to have levels set right.

And true, I was not trying to sound like Geoff. Which is why I would call it a cover, rather than a tribute. To me, a tribute is where you sound like the original, as well as singing it like they do. When you sound different and do it in your own voice, that is a cover.

And I have no feelings to be hurt. Nor did I start out with justifications, excuses. I did what I could do, at the time, ala Guitar George.

And I am here to learn and I will probably record this again and see if I can clean it up. It really is true. If you can record right, from the beginning, there's not all that much to "mix" or "fix."

Of the Queensryche catalog, this is my wife's favorite, though I did the song for myself, not for her. If she likes it, bonus. To date, Keith's version is still her favorite cover. I can live with that. Keith is a demon wizard.

It's also an homage to Jens and others. Don't limit yourself. See what it is you can do. Then do it.

[MDEW]

you've seen the videos of Dio, Gramm, Perry ......... in the studio. If they do no not like the sound, they stop and rework it. Making sure the EQ is set, the effects set, the proper feel etc.

We put more pressure on ourselves trying to make it through a whole song without a break than they do. If they dont like it, they stop and tweek it. We are allowed to do that also.

[Jugulator]

The beginning is really awesome. The rest of the song is good, too. But there are some pitchy places, and you seem to have the lack of head resonance when singing higher.

[ronws]

Thanks, Igor. All of these things are helping me.

[Jens]

haha told you, you had low notes

mate i think i understand your voice alot now, where it's commin from and how it works. Ive got some weird ideas and if im right(im always right) youll be able to do this twice as good as this easily within a month. Hit me up on skype if your intrested in knowing more

skype:jensviktorjohansson

[ronws]

Thanks, Jens. Don't have skype set up but it sounds cool.

I am getting a kick out of the observations of people who are new to the forum and have not heard me before.

I also like the shift in perspective. I think I was weak and tremulous in the low end. Evidently, that's the one part everyone likes. Which means my hearing must be off.

And then, I listen to other stuff I have done and wonder why you guys put up with me, other than sympathy for a fellow simian.

[breakin]

ronws: I really like your low singing here. Relaxed, interesting. Vunerable somehow. The higher part lacks something!

[ronws]

Thanks to everyone, so far. This has been quite educational, for me. I certainly have plenty to work on and I might just take up Jens on his offer. If for nothing else than to talk with a fine swede, such as he is. And his english is really good, easy to understand. I can learn from anyone.

It's become apparent, aside from the sound quality issues in the recording, which is something else I am working on, that there are issues with my voice in the higher parts of the song. Which was upside down from how I perceieved. Which means my perception could very well be wrong.

In essence, where there is smoke, there is fire. So, even with the math of averages, if only half the problems were accurately described, that means I am doing something that needs correcting.

For once, I have no skin to lose in this, to borrow from golf. I stayed away from this song for a long time, mainly because of the low notes. I did not think I could do them justice, to have it come out believable and welcomed, especially to myself, let alone others. Yet, those low notes are the things that others like. And the high parts, in the middle of my normal range, seem to have nothing but problems.

Which means, as always, I have more work to do. Plus, when I re-record this, it will be with the dynamic mic. It's not only better quality, it handles volume much better. You guys don't realize how quiet I am singing in the low stuff, seriously brushing the pop filter for "life."

So, I would say, mixed results, so far. I can do the low parts of this song well enough for others to like it. Sweet.

And other things can and will be fixed. I truly thank everyone for being honest in their reviews of this. For I entered this song feeling out of my league and expecting to fall totally flat on my face, with it. But I wanted to do it anyway because I have no shame, no fear, and I do not know everything. And I had good success with "Hurt," which gave me the chutzpah to think I could take on the beast of a song. It is harder to do than you think. Being a soft, quiet ballad, it can show your faults much more clearly than "Highway to Hell." Maybe that is why I like the HtH song. It allows for a multitude of sins and I can get away with murder, in that one.

:lol:

[MDEW]

Ronws, Have you listen to your rendition of this song really close and with a critque in mind? Were there things that you liked and did not like about it? And did you find things that you would have pointed out if it was someone else who had submitted it?

I know that in my songs there are things that stick out in my mind to be problems, yet no one has mentioned those. To other people either those problems do not exist or it is something that straitens itself out when underlying problems are delt with. Ex.To me my voice is lifeless and muffled. That was never mentioned. But what was mentioned is my lack of support and my lack of focussed resonance. Fix support and resonance muffled tone and lifelessness are replaced by Bright tone and energy. I had always thought that I was using support and resonance.

In other words the faults that we see may be caused by the ones that are hidden from us.

[ronws]

Yes, I have, just now. I botched the beginning. Wobbly. But no one has mentioned that, yet.

In the higher parts, I don't have the weight of Geoff Tate, nor was I looking to have it, either. But, I can also hear that I was singing it quietly, trying to hold back so as not to overload the mic, which it did, anyway. And next time, I will use the dynamic mic and sing this song my way. Peel the paint off the walls.

Is it wrong of me to be proud of how I handled the word "life"? I think I did pretty well for a note that used to scare me because I did NOT think I could do it. But I channeled my inner Jens and mustered the power of Greyskull.

One person mentioned that I lacked resonance on the higher notes. To an extent, yes, that was true, precisely because I was trying to back off my normal "give you a headache" ping. Even though I was not trying to sound like Geoff Tate, I was trying to sing like him. Or was it the other way around?

Valuable lesson learned, I need to sing this like ronws.

I also plan to see how Jens can help me. I can learn something from anyone. If he really does have an insight to my voice that I can't see (can't see the forest for the trees), maybe it could make this song better. Or any song I do, better.

Talking with you in posts helps me, MDEW. I still do funny voices and butcher songs on purpose, rather than accidently. You help me have fun with singing.

And your humility is a lesson that should be learned by everyone.

Let me get personal, about myself. I really am an electrician and a manager for an electrical sub-contractor. I really did start doing electrical in 1983. I really did start studying electricity and electrical theory, thanks to my step-grandfather (maybe my brother, SLStone can confirm) in 1975. I really do have a master electrician license from the state of Texas (if I give you my license number to check with TDLR, it will give you all my personal contact info.) And, before coming to this company, I became expendable during the recession.

I went from running a 104,000 square foot new school project (electrical) and supervising 20 people to working through a temp service with a 2 year helper telling me where to dig a ditch, even though I was old enough to be his father. Literally. Not bragging, I was smarter, more efficient than most that I worked with, and certainly had the biggest license. I ran a job that made $30k over the projected profit margin, in half the time with half the number of crew I was supposed to have.

But keeping a job during a recession is not, surprisingly enough, about how efficient you are. It's politics. I don't have the right last name, so to speak. I went from the dirt, to the top, and back to the dirt.

So, for someone to tell me that I've got to work on some notes here and there, that ain't nothing like what I have been through.

TMI, I know. After one gets past all the defensiveness, something can be learned. So, I am learning.

[ronws]

Thanks, Elwin. I find there are mixed results with this song. Surprising or illuminating, or both.

Honest-to-goodness, all the comments have been helpful. For if someone hears a defiency, it means, one way or another, I must change something. Pitch control, relative volume. Most certainly, recording strategy.

Once again, monstrous thanks to Keith. He did what he could but the mic clipping was something fierce. The funny thing? I sent the vocal track to him, dry. No effects, compression, volume boost, or anything. Nada, nichts, zero.

Like MDEW mentioned, I also have to give as much time to this recording process as the pros do. Even if it means I have to comp or patch the track.

Though, I am still a hard-head. If I can get the mic and software levels right, I will probably record again, as a single, unpatched track.

At one point, on a song that I did comp the vocal track, my legato was found lacking. Maybe, I now have too much.

Such is the comedy in my life.

[MDEW]

I have never had the experience of overloading a microphone. Most of the time when I am singing, my mike needs to be turned up so loud that you cannot fight the feedback. I had always felt that I was using a loud voice. It felt to me like I was yelling and could not get any louder.

Even though when I am actually yelling I am not loud, I am often told to keep it down when I have something to say. Mainly so others will not over hear my conversation. So I have been taught to be silent. This works against my training for singing. How can you utilise a big boomy resonant voice when even a muffled half heard voice is too loud?

Getting back to your cover: Yes, pat yourself on the back for that low note. I also had to use a vocal fry for it.

For me I did not feel the need to critique the song. My wife had a kidney stone and our night was spent in misery.

To me your cover of Silent Lucidity was a message that things would turn out OK that we were being watched over.

Message delivered. Message received. Message and messenger appreciated.

[ronws]

I have never had the experience of overloading a microphone. Most of the time when I am singing, my mike needs to be turned up so loud that you cannot fight the feedback. I had always felt that I was using a loud voice. It felt to me like I was yelling and could not get any louder.

Even though when I am actually yelling I am not loud, I am often told to keep it down when I have something to say. Mainly so others will not over hear my conversation. So I have been taught to be silent. This works against my training for singing. How can you utilise a big boomy resonant voice when even a muffled half heard voice is too loud?

Getting back to your cover: Yes, pat yourself on the back for that low note. I also had to use a vocal fry for it.

For me I did not feel the need to critique the song. My wife had a kidney stone and our night was spent in misery.

To me your cover of Silent Lucidity was a message that things would turn out OK that we were being watched over.

Message delivered. Message received. Message and messenger appreciated.

Goodness, gracious, M. Well then, I dedicate the song to you and your wife and I am honored that it meant something to you. As well, if and when I can re-record it better. It is still for you and your wife. You must have had a scare. I have already had to bury one wife (Deidre, 12-29-62 to 07-28-92, RIP.) So, I can imagine, even a little, what you have been going through. It knocks the crap out of you and if anyone has a problem with my profanity, so be it, it's been nice knowing ya'll.

Thanks, Elwin. Most of my recording problems are through my all thumbs approach, as well as relatively low tech. My computer has a model A style crank on the back, to start it up. Plus, I am blonde. There is white-out on the screen where I had to correct typos. :lol:

[Vocalist Dad]

nicely done Ron, enjoyed it greatly.

[ronws]

Thanks. It's still a work in progress and I hope to make it better. I listen again and see where I can change and can make some things better.

[Owen Korzec]

I liked the high parts a lot. I think the mid-low parts were a bit too nasal at times.

Ron, it's time for you to start paying attention to and taking care of the finer details in terms of pitch and timing. That's something Rob got me doing and I'm glad he did, because it really is the difference between an amateur and professional sound. You have most of the main, important parts on pitch and in time, but it has to ALL be on pitch and in time.

Polish it up. I've heard enough of the raw ability of ronws at this point that I think it's time for you to go the extra mile. Challenge your voice to do what it cannot do. You are working on your low range and that is a good start. But not just that. I think you could also benefit from some overall clean up. Start being more nitpicky about things. Particularly tone, pitch, and rhythm. Be on the lookout for nasality creeping in and be more exact on the pitches and timing. That is all you need, really. Your vocal instrument is already well developed, the technique is there. At this point it really comes down to listening harder.

Man, just saying...one skype lesson with Rob, not technique, just coaching on songs, and you he will really take you to the next level. He'll have some tricks to help you with the low range too.

Or another teacher of your choice. Definitely take up Jens' offer.

Because we do not hear our voice as others hear it. That sounds really familiar...:lol:

[ronws]

I liked the high parts a lot. I think the mid-low parts were a bit too nasal at times.

Ron, it's time for you to start paying attention to and taking care of the finer details in terms of pitch and timing. That's something Rob got me doing and I'm glad he did, because it really is the difference between an amateur and professional sound. You have most of the main, important parts on pitch and in time, but it has to ALL be on pitch and in time.

Polish it up. I've heard enough of the raw ability of ronws at this point that I think it's time for you to go the extra mile. Challenge your voice to do what it cannot do. You are working on your low range and that is a good start. But not just that. I think you could also benefit from some overall clean up. Start being more nitpicky about things. Particularly tone, pitch, and rhythm. Be on the lookout for nasality creeping in and be more exact on the pitches and timing. That is all you need, really. Your vocal instrument is already well developed, the technique is there. At this point it really comes down to listening harder.

Man, just saying...one skype lesson with Rob, not technique, just coaching on songs, and you he will really take you to the next level. He'll have some tricks to help you with the low range too.

Or another teacher of your choice. Definitely take up Jens' offer.

Because we do not hear our voice as others hear it. That sounds really familiar...

Yes sir. Your review has convinced me that there was nothing worthy in this version. So, I have removed it.

I will do my best to follow your wisdom.

[muzza]

Why remove it?

Some of us that aren't ready put ourselves on the line, bear our souls and and post our own videos learn a lot from other people's comments about other people's songs.

Please reinstate it so I can have a listen.

Pleeeaaaase?

[ronws]

Well, crap, Muzza, I even removed it from Box. An expert, such as Owen, has decided it was totally botched.

And I think there were problems but I think they are different than what Owen was hearing. I think a huge problem is that I, in spite of my own advice, was trying to sing like someone other than myself. And my recording strategy is absolutely the worst. My feelings are not hurt. Sometimes, you just have to trash the whole thing and start again.

I can create the notes but I cannot sound like Geoff no matter how hard I try and I cannot sound "baritone," regardless of singing a G2 or even frying (felt like a croak, to me) an E2, I think someone said. But, very well, just as a lesson to be learned, I will repost it. Maybe some can use this as an enhanced interrogation technique. So, I could earn a check from DHS or the CIA if I can license this for their use.

And seriously, I already want to re-record it and change somethings. First off, the mic. I will use the dynamic mic, next time. And I will give it the ronws flavor. And try a different mixing strategy. I may try mixing it myself and see if I can really foul things up.

So, give me a moment.

[ronws]

Here you go, Muzza.

https://www.box.com/s/1iado82ph2vchqj2nhdr

And I didn't hear much nasality, myself. But it might be apparent to others. And that might make sense to me. I broke another one of my rules. Recording after mowing the lawn. Mowing the lawn kicks up a lot of pollen and dust and allergies. Not making excuses, just that I normally avoid recording anything for a day after that, just to let the sinuses clear out. My bad.

As far as clearer tone in the low end, that may not happen. I do not have the "baritone" fach and I am not willing to spend another 10 years trying to develope it for just this song. It was a one-off. And lilke a few other times, it is kicking my butt.

I usually do better on Led Zeppelin stuff. I am out of me league on this but I like to have fun trying.