Silent Lucidity - cover

[ronws]

I listened to it again. And I don't like it, either. I am pulling a "Felipe" on myself.

So, the next progression is to record again, of course. Then sit on it a few days. I already did 4 takes to get this track. I like the song, but it's not in my normal set list. I have always wanted to do the song.

To answer Owen, I have already emailed Jens, in so many words, explaining my schedule. I have not heard back what is the best time I could contact him. I live in Texas, central daylight savings time. As I write this very post, it is 7:21 pm, two towns south of the Red River, about 60 miles north of Dallas.

Jens lives in Sweden, the other side of the world, practically. And my workdays average about 13 hours. And I still have to set up skype, if my old computer will handle it. And then, I would only have time to really converse with him on the weekends, most likely Saturday. He could also be very busy and just not have the time when I have the time.

At the very least, if I can make a cleaner track, I will probably email it to MDEW, since it meant so much to him.

[Owen Korzec]

An expert, such as Owen, has decided it was totally botched.

That is NOT what I said at all! It's fine, Ron. It's a good cover overall. I enjoyed listening to it. I just offered some suggestions on areas that could use improvement, if you desire to improve your singing further.

I'm also not an expert. Especially not at singing. And certainly not an expert critic. I seem to only be able to critique others the way I critique myself: with high standards.

[ronws]

Please don't be offended, Owen. But please re-read your review. Essentially saying that I need to get more lessons.

Warning, personal info to follow, not hurt feelings, please bear with me.

The version of "Stairway to Heaven" that I have posted in this forum (and actually, that recording, here, is about 2 years old), I have been singing that song, that way, since before you were born.

And you are telling me I need lessons with Robert (which I cannot afford at this time and I will not explain.) Or that I should take Jens up on his offer. Still waiting on that, no pressure, not throwing anyone under the bus.

And I know there are problems with the recording. Again, I sent Keith a dog of a file and there some stuff that no amount of digital trickery can fix. I think, if I can record a good track, even I could mix it. Like I did with "Brandy." I mixed that one myself and everyone, so far, has liked it. Then, again, that song has been in my head since it was released in 1972. So, I am kind of familiar with it. Recording it was as easy as breathing. So, very little mixing involved. An acoustic eq. A smidge of echo. Let it sit on the window sill and cool, like a pie. Done deal.

The reason for me deleting the link, before re-instating it, is because I value your opinion and that of others and do not wish to be defensive, for that does not lead to improvement. Accepting that I have FUBAR'd it and starting again is the right thing.

As for calling you an expert, you kind of bring it on yourself. I read your posts in the technique threads. And you have the advantage of being an current and active student of Robert's, with his blessing and acceptance of your observations. You are certainly an expert in 4 Pillars, more than I am and that is a cold, hard fact, not sarcasm or anything designed to bait you or insult, or anything. You are even willing to comment on CVT, a system I have never learned and never comment on. So, when I say you are an expert, it is not a snide comment. You may very well be more conversant and more technically savvy than I am. And that does not hurt my feelings. Even if you are young enough to be my son.

I have no pride, no shame, and sometimes, no decorum.

I am an unabashed animal on the highway to Hell. (if you only knew just how honest I am in my posts.)

Which does not mean I don't seek to improve.

I did not hear nasality in what I was doing but the recording does sound "boxy" and that is not the fault of post-recording editing and entirely is the fault of the vocal file I sent. It was crap and I deserve all the heat for that.

So, don't worry, Owen, we're cool.

[MDEW]

If this is the same recording from earlier then I need to get my ears checked. Your voice sounded warmer and more full the whole way through. You sounded more relaxed to me. I did not notice any nasality but I am no expert.

I also did not notice any pitch problems. Some of the words were hard to understand. I do not know the words to this song. If I did maybe it would have been less noticeable to me.

The low notes sounded solid. Not as rich as a baritone of course but I want to hear Ronws and he is a tenor.

And that lowest note whether Fry or not sounded like a real modal tone. Kind of awesome really for someone who spends their time shattering glass.

[Chavie]

Awww.......you removed the link?

[Jens]

I listened to it again. And I don't like it, either. I am pulling a "Felipe" on myself.

So, the next progression is to record again, of course. Then sit on it a few days. I already did 4 takes to get this track. I like the song, but it's not in my normal set list. I have always wanted to do the song.

To answer Owen, I have already emailed Jens, in so many words, explaining my schedule. I have not heard back what is the best time I could contact him. I live in Texas, central daylight savings time. As I write this very post, it is 7:21 pm, two towns south of the Red River, about 60 miles north of Dallas.

Jens lives in Sweden, the other side of the world, practically. And my workdays average about 13 hours. And I still have to set up skype, if my old computer will handle it. And then, I would only have time to really converse with him on the weekends, most likely Saturday. He could also be very busy and just not have the time when I have the time.

At the very least, if I can make a cleaner track, I will probably email it to MDEW, since it meant so much to him.

Hey bro ive just been super busy this week(14hour days lol), just download skype, if your computer can handle recording skype wont be a problem.

Il respond to your email this weekend when my workload is less

[Owen Korzec]

Please don't be offended, Owen. But please re-read your review. Essentially saying that I need to get more lessons.

I said ONE lesson would help a lot...

I think both you and I are misinterpreting each other's text. You are currently thinking this cover is worse than it really is, because you thought I said it was bad. But I meant, despite the critique I gave, that it is actually a good cover. Not something to pull down from a thread. But I respect your decision.

[ronws]

Hey bro ive just been super busy this week(14hour days lol), just download skype, if your computer can handle recording skype wont be a problem.

Il respond to your email this weekend when my workload is less

Dude, I totally understand. The gist of my email is that my freest time is on the weekends. My days are as long as yours, including 2 hours of commuting. I was not trying to put you on the spot.

M, yes, it's the same recording. I had not erased it from my computer, but I had removed the link from here and removed the file from Box. So, I had to re-upload it to box and re-link it here.

And thanks, Owen. I didn't want it to seem like I was overreacting, either. I have only to learn. And it doesn't hurt me to scrap this and start over again.

If you remember the Queensryche tribute thread that Keith had, I submitted my cover of "I Don't Believe in Love." If you actually read the file header when you open the link, you will see it was attempt number 8. So, it would not be the first time I have had to do a song more than 4 times.

Even if I took the link down again, I would keep the file of examples of what not to do. Trust me, you learn as much or more from mistakes as you do from successes.

[MDEW]

Maybe I should get my ears checked !

But as I said in my Email, you seem to have one of those voices that can change depending on the situation the listener is in. And on first listen I thought there were perceptible pitch errors second time purposely listening for it they were not as noticeable.

If it is just my ears, so be it. I am getting old. :D

[ronws]

Thanks, M. I have already re-recorded and I am doing some preliminary mixing, myself. When I have Keith mix it, I send him an mp3, which is a compression format, and therefore a loss format. However, I still hear the lightness in my voice. It is my curse. However, if I can, it will be closer to how I sound, I think. Just now, I am trying the echo function, which seems to take forever to process.

[ronws]

Let me try this one.

https://www.box.com/s/wm9mdujcbk50vbkbrd0q

And, for M, the lyrics.

"Silent Lucidity"

Hush now don't you cry

Wipe away the teardrop from your eye

You're lying safe in bed

It was all a bad dream

Spinning in your head

Your mind tricked you to feel the pain

Of someone close to you leaving the game

Of life

So here it is, another chance

Wide awake, you face the day

Your dream is over...

Or has it just begun?

There's a place I like to hide

A doorway that I run through in the night

Relax child, you were there

But only didn't realize

And you were scared

It's a place where you will learn

To face your fears, retrace the years

And ride the whims of your mind

Commanding in another world

Suddenly, you'll hear and see

This magic new dimension

I

Will be watching over you

I am gonna help you see it through

I

Will protect you in the night

I am smiling next to you

In silent lucidity...

(Solo)

Spoken:

Visualize your dream (Yes)

Record it in the present tense (Don't be scared)

Put it into a permanent form

If you persist in your efforts

You can achieve a dream control

(Control)

(How're you doing today?) (Better?)

Dream come true

Dream come true

Dream come true

Help me...

If you open your mind for me

You won't rely on open eyes to see

The walls you built within

Come tumbling down

And a new world will begin

Living twice at once you learn

You're safe from pain in the dream domain

A soul set free to fly

A round trip journey in your head

Master of illusion, can you realize?

Your dream's alive, you can be the guide but...

I

Will be watching over you

I am gonna help you see it through

I

Will protect you in the night

I am smiling next to you...

note: I do not use the lyrics

"

(How're you doing today?) (Better?)

Dream come true

Dream come true

Dream come true

Help me... "

[Owen Korzec]

Sounds better already, Ron. Especially the beginning, big improvements there.

[MDEW]

:) Better. I could understand all the words this time. :P

[Slow Start]

I liked the cover, I listened to both recordings, the second is definitely improved. Good work!

I know this is still a rough recording (as labeled)... here's some of what I noticed:

I find that when you sing the line "There's a place I like to hide / A doorway that I run through in the night" around 1:23, it sounds like you're coming a tad late on the beat to my ear... if it's actually not late, perhaps I could be hearing some doubt/shakiness at the onset that makes it sound unsure.

Same thing at 3:54 with "If you open your mind for me / You won't rely on open eyes to see", it sounded like you started a moment late and then sped up the first couple words.

Do you feel tight on the "u" in "illusion"? It sounds like it may be a little tight and a smidge flat to my ear.

[ronws]

I liked the cover, I listened to both recordings, the second is definitely improved. Good work!

I know this is still a rough recording (as labeled)... here's some of what I noticed:

I find that when you sing the line "There's a place I like to hide / A doorway that I run through in the night" around 1:23, it sounds like you're coming a tad late on the beat to my ear... if it's actually not late, perhaps I could be hearing some doubt/shakiness at the onset that makes it sound unsure.

Same thing at 3:54 with "If you open your mind for me / You won't rely on open eyes to see", it sounded like you started a moment late and then sped up the first couple words.

Do you feel tight on the "u" in "illusion"? It sounds like it may be a little tight and a smidge flat to my ear.

No, on "illusion," I back away from the dynamic mic quite a bit as I get a good deal louder. But it did not feel tight, to me.

"Rely on open eyes to see" that's a tough one to place

[Chavie]

Wow you need to show off your low notes more........crazy low for a high tenor!!

Always wanted to cover this but just dont have the low end for it :(

[ronws]

Wow you need to show off your low notes more........crazy low for a high tenor!!

Always wanted to cover this but just dont have the low end for it

Funny thing is, Chavie, neither do I.

Make the sound, that's the secret. It doesn't make me a baritone. Just as a baritone singing a C5 is not magically a tenor. And, like Jens said, who cares about range? And like Felipe says, range description (I paraphrase) really only matters to the casting director of an opera. Or even a theater piece. And baritones who can sing high notes often get the hero and lead roles. Tenors are usually a secondary role, more of a one-dimensional character.

So, let me channel my "inner Jens." You can do this song, if you want to. What will take you a while is figuring out how to make the pitch. Second important part, sing like Geoff Tate. That does NOT mean sound like him, it means, literally, to sing like him, by feel. In his interview, he dreaded the technical questions that were most likely to be asked because he did not have the technical answers that would satisfy techno-singing geeks like a majority of us.

For example, when singing the line "master of illusion," he is not thinking "I will do 30 percent cry, 12 percent curbing, with a metal like neutral that is more metal than neutral." He is not thinking "lift up pull back." He is not thinking, "I must lighten." He is feeling the song, feeling the audience.

And, like Jens, it is okay to go for an extreme sound in your voice, within whatever limits you have. When I do the low note for "life," almost no air is escaping, slowed way, way down, absolutely the lowest air pressure I can generate.

[jonpall]

Ron, I actually liked it. Yes, I really did. Although I do think you should listen to the various critiques in this thread and also take a quick lesson from f.ex. Jens and also Robert Lunte or someone you dig (which will only improve your voice) - there is a certain quality in your voice that I just LIKE. I find it hard to pinpoint, but it's a sense of vulnerability not unlike Tom Waits or Nick Cave. Only, you also go higher in pitch, which makes for a very unique voice. Your vibrato has improved (could you do it in just a few more places in your next cover and see how that would sound - just for me? ) and you sing this song with quite a lot of feel to it. I've head many of your past songs and can hear a definite improvement. You should be proud of yourself and put your chin up. You are Ron and you have a very unique voice. Personally, I think that if you were to do exercises in which you sustain notes for perhaps 10 seconds and try to not let your voice waiver even an inch - and then do the same exercise WITH vibrato - and then do it on various pitches - you'd start to bring out an even richer sound to your voice that's even more YOU. Our voices may never become perfect and we can always improve, but I'll have you know that I ran through your version of this song another time just to listen to it, without critizising anything and just enjoying it. Great job Ron and have a good day :)

[ronws]

Thanks, jonpall, for both the advice and the compliments. And you are right.

[Olem]

Good job, Ron, and you already know what i feel about your voice so i will not add anything further.

[ronws]

Thanks, Olem. I know from plenty of times before how you like the lower end of my voice. And it's okay for me to like it, too.

:cool:

[Keith]

I like it. I especially like how my previous comment never made it lol. So, here it is again.

Kinda.

So, I thought the low notes were great. Your high notes, or higher notes, sound a bit unsupported , or at least lacking chest resonance (like just singing in head). You really need to lean into those notes, (I lean back lol). I have been doing nothing but singing in head voice on "eeeee" decending sirens, and then singing some songs. Let me tell ya, I have increased my full voice to the exten that I can sing this song at karaoke with one larnyx tied behind my back. I believe trongly that the more one strengthens head voice musculature, the higher ones full voice will go. Another reason I have been doing this is to try and get my musculatures more evenly strengthened. I digress. Anyway. with some practice, I think you can knock this one out of the park.

[ronws]

Thanks, Keith, that means a lot coming from you. And, on this second recording, mixing it myself, has taught me much more about the value of making a good sound file to begin with. If I had been able to send you a cleaner file on the first one, that might have had better results. You can only work with what is given to you, right?

Thank you so much for the tips. Seriously, guys, I thought I would crash and burn on this song more than the faults ya'll have found. So, I can only learn from this and all the advice is valid and good and something for me to work on.

[Jens]

Get skype bro :p

[ronws]

Get skype bro

Okay, I will see what I can do. Last time I checked the requirements, I think my computer was too slow. But maybe I can find a lo fi solution, so to speak.

And to the others, again, thanks. This song is me outside of my comfort zone. This song has me so "naked," so to speak. I can always cover another Led Zep song and probably get applause. But I wanted to see where my limits are and this has been a great learning experience.