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Hey all :)

alright, since I just signed on here a few hours ago I won't waste time with pondering, I'll directly ask for opinions and reviews.

I have some covers on youtube, most of them are 1st tries (means I didn't sing the song 50 times or more and practice them)

I usually hear a song, decide, that I could try singing it, look for a backing and sing it.

If I'm happy with a try I release that version and after some weeks I might try singing it again and release a new try. (just to explain what I mean with 'try' in the song description)

I post the link to my youtube channel instead of one or 2 videos, so you can decide yourself what to watch :)

http://www.youtube.com/user/NikArcherTH

I just read a view posts here in this part of the forum and will read some more, but I saw someone singing Hallelujah, that song triggered my attention :o

edit: ok, I'll add another song test. As I wrote before, Hallelujah triggered my attention and I tried it the 1st time today.

for some reason (maybe it's the heat, 31°C is not good for singing I guess or I sang James Blunt covers too often the past 3 days) my voice sounds hoarse, though I'm not, but I hear some kind of noise

don't hit me if I didn't hit the right notes or rhythm, I'm still working me into the song :)

another thing I noticed while singing it: if I don't record it and just sing (without facing the microphone) it sounds better than during and after recording, I don't know why yet ... lol

http://ul.to/2vhj61/hallelujah_nik_test0.mp3

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Excellent tone. On "Mad World," your clear tone and powerful voice reminded me of the singer from Pet Shop Boys, and that is meant as a compliment. "Hallelujah" was great. I played it for my wife. She, too, is used to the Jeff Buckley version but yours was great and gave her goose bumps.

You have it, dude.

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Hey ronws :)

thank you :o

right now I'm back in that "hole" (I wrote about that in my hello post). I control my tone pitch now and then. I can say I hit more tones recently, that's good and it gives me some self confidence boost, but I have a different problem right now. I still have troubles hearing myself and I'm sure it's not my ears (as in permanent damage).

When I sing hallelujah I notice that it somehow sounds hoarse, I hear noice when I use my headphones. If I don't use my headphones and just sing I don't hear that noise, it sounds like the high frequencies don't exist - until I sing into my hands and try to direct the sound to my ears. Then I also hear this noise. Singing also is a bit straining, it doesn't hurt or anything but I have to use more power to sing some notes. I would say it's because of the heat in my room, but not sure, I don't think I caught a cold.

That's really frustrating because I don't know what's up :|

(I must sound like some diva right now lol)

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In the very upper end of my range, I have had to use consistent air pressure but lately, I've been learning, you can accomplish more by backing off the air pressure a little bit. The rest of my volume in that part of the range comes from resonance. It sounds like I am screaming but I am not.

As for what you think is noise, is it noise you hear in your own voice or something you hear in playback or monitoring through playback? Also, it is truly hard to hear yourself, even by singing against an object such as a wall or your own hands because you are still partially hearing yourself through bone conduction in your own body.

What you may call noise might be a natural rasp that others would give their right arm to have.

Anyway, don't give up. And remember each person sounds unique. And I think that's a good thing.

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Hey nik i just listened to your hallelujah and it was good! :D

Onething you could try to make it sound even better is to sing the song on a legatoline to connect the words and get a better flow in the lyrics. Legato is when you sing a line connected, and treat everyline as a travel from start to finish.

I know this was your first time, but try this and resing it, and it will sound more professional.

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Hey ronws and Jens :)

thanks :)

first I'll reply to your postings.

The noise I mean is in my voice, it sounds like a chhhhh or some kind of fizzle. I guess something's up with my voice right now. I don't feel sick but singing is really straining at the moment and after I sang some time I can't hit any high notes unless I use a lot of pressure, I got a little hoarse. Which I think also causes this noise I hear. My throat itches back where you feel the "impact" while trying to cough with your mouth closed. There's also some mucus (?) and I took acetylcysteine every day now. I guess I'll stop singing for a few days completely.

Beside that, I still lack this special rasp that some singers have. I'd really like to sing "Nothing else matters" but it sounds not good enough with my voice. I've read that this will come with time and I notice that I sometimes can sing like this, but only sporadic. :/

Jens, I know what you mean :) though it was my first try I already thought about singing it like I did because I didn't like to combine the words while I recorded it. Don't ask me why, I don't know ... lol ... but I will try and see how it sounds, but first I have to rest my voice for a bit :)

ok, now there's something I also have to mention:

I just experimented a bit. Let's call it karaoke. I switched on my studio monitors. I'm in a kinda small room and I guess the setup (placement of monitors, room size, space between monitors and walls, sound settings on my monitors etc) and is not very good but this time I really had trouble hearing myself or sounding like I wanted. In my ears it sounded different with every song I tried. kinda flat, or too much bass, or too much treble, I don't know why or what it was, but I could say it made me want to get an axe and kill it ... lol

then I listened to different song tries I recorded. NOT ONE sounded good to me. I've mentioned I mix using headphones. I guess using headphones not kills the feeling of "room" (3D) it also makes reverb sound not as strong as it sounds on monitors. I also didn't like my voice while listening to it using my monitors. I can say I currently HATE it.

I wished I could make the mixes sound like what I hear during recording. I sometimes have goose bumps caused by the sound of my voice during recording but when I listen to it afterwards I don't get the same feeling because something's missing or killed by a filter.

I won't stop singing, I never will but right now I have a feeling that makes me run away or break out from something, I wished there was some kind of reset button that helps me out of the deadlock I'm currently in.

hmm, so if there's anyone out there, please tell me if I'm right or tell me what I do wrong.

I think my filter settings are completely overdone or something.

Though people say it sounds good I have problems believing it more than ever before D:

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Ok mate news of the day, that mental attitude you have towards your voice wont work. You make it so hard for yourself, be proud and love your voice. If you cant do that lie to yourself until you belive it, the voice is so emotionaly attatched that it's crazy, thats why people who end up in life crisis such as family death and such crash their voices.

If you have a neggative mindset about your voice your growth will be so much less, on the other hand if you can stay very positive about your voice your growth will increase. Be positive think about your strengths and great qualitys and why you enjoy singing, envision yourself everyday reaching your goals.

Rasp or distortion is a technique and can be learnt, there's actualy some threads about this on this forum.

If you feel discomfort or your voice is out of place take one or two silent days where you not utter a word, see if that makes any diffrence

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it's hard to explain ... I believe my voice is not bad and I always tell myself that

but then again now and then I can't stand what I hear after recording, I guess it's not my own fault but also due do wrong settings ^^;

right now I don't sing, though I "playing siren" now and then while working on something that's nothing to do with music. pitch up, pitch down and so on ...

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It sounds like something is wrong on the eq when you playback for yourself. Because it sounds fine from what I can hear.

Or, you just have this mental thing that you decide that you cannot like your voice, maybe because someone told you it's not worth it, you sound like crap, etcetera. Ignore them, even if it's a family member. That might be easy for me, an american, raised by people who were as stubborn as the day is long and I can still struggle with their negative messages, that turn out to be totally unfounded, from time to time. You must do the same. That's going to be harder for you than actually singing. So stop beating yourself up, because I said so.

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Nik - i listened to Mad World and to me it really sounded very good. I don't know why you are so conscious about your voice. forget if any one ever said negative stuff, there are people like that out there, you just gotta ignore them and move on. I thought your voice on mad world sounded very good and solid. I wish i had that type of heavyness in my voice. lol...

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Hey Nik,

I've heard really big singers saying "I can't stand my voice man" and everybody else thought "what???"

Well that's what most people think about their own voice but if get your voice properly mixed (in the mix instead of standing out) you will actually hear what everybody else hears.

I liked your voice very much and rasp is a real challenge but don't feel bad about your voice because it doesn't have that effect just yet, I'm just beginning to discover rasp myself.

Best,

akarawd

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Hey all :)

thanks for your words :)

I took some time off from singing, I really needed this.

I guess my biggest problem is that I'm on my own and all I do is what I discovered myself and that there's nobody who can tell me what's wrong at the same time I try something.

and also the "I try to mix myself" problem

What akarawd wrote is what I heard a long time ago: some singers like their voice, some don't, some can work with it, others need another person for that.

But most of the time I have the feeling that time runs out and I'm not progressing ... I guess it's a mental thing which limits myself more or less ...

I just started singing again (trying the not easy to sing Tears and rain by James Blunt, lol) but it's 30°C in my room and now I have a heat problem ... lol

anyway I'll continue :D

oh, and kalapoka: only a very few people said that my voice is crap, but my parents for example hear me sing now and then and well, through walls it often sounds bad, especially high notes like in this James Blunt song, so they made some comments about it. But I reacted very pissed and told them that they don't know anything and should keep quiet about it. I needed that ;D

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Hey all :)

oh, and kalapoka: only a very few people said that my voice is crap, but my parents for example hear me sing now and then and well, through walls it often sounds bad, especially high notes like in this James Blunt song, so they made some comments about it. But I reacted very pissed and told them that they don't know anything and should keep quiet about it. I needed that ;D

Nik, I know I will sound like a jerk, but I will say it. when it comes to singing and music, DO NOT listen to parents. Just turn a deaf ear to anything they have to say if it isn't positive. You see. the thing with parents is, they can NEVER be objective. they will always get mixed up with a tornado of emotions, be it good or bad. Sometimes a parent is SO positive, SO supportive and SO flattering that the kid gets his/her head swollen and will deviate from reality if he/she has some problems left to fix. Sometimes parents are negative, and they don't know, have NO idea about how they are affecting the progress of their kid. I hate to admit, but somehow the approval of a parent still means quite a lot when it comes to such a sensitive issue as singing and music, and when they make an off handed comment without fully knowing the implications, they can do serious damage. Yes I sound bad now, BECAUSE I am LEARNING. How come they forget that? Did they say - hey, you are falling down again and again, better not learn to walk anymore when we were toddlers? NO. But somehow, when it comes to singing, parents will say that. My dad did it when I was learning guitar and still does it. I have learned to NOT listen to him and NOT discuss anything musical with him anymore. Sounds harsh? Yah it is, but its the best thing that I could have done to myself. So may be next time you do not want to react harshly to them about this, but just make sure you are not listening to anything they have to say.

There I said it, sorry if i sound rude, but I face this challenge quite a lot and this is how I deal with it.

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Fahim: you don't sound like a jerk at all. And I know, I don't listen to anyone except people who try to help me ;)

So to make it short and easy: people who don't know much about music and singing are only good for "yes, I like"/"no, I don't like"-reviews ... lol

you don't sound rude either :) the problem is, the moment someone makes a comment it's already gone through the ears right into the brain ... so it affects a little bit, but then I say "you don't know anything about it, shut up" (not that rude though) :)

@all:

well, I still took some time off from singing and music, but mainly because of the hot weather now.

Yesterday I made a new try of Neil Young's "Heart of gold", after 1 year not singing it. Today I tested some other songs like Del Shannon's "Runaway" and also did a new Halleluja test.

I usually look at the pitch of each note I sing and it makes me happy that I somehow hit more notes after the break I took. I mean I hit more frequencies (the notes could still be wrong though but I'm not that much off anymore as I were before)

I wrote I hear some noise especially when I sing Hallelujah. In the new test I still hear it, to me it sounds like noise/swoosh etc (I don't find a good word for it) it's a shhhh chhhhh sound I hear, some kind of hiss but not the hiss in ESS-sounds

I suppose it is because of the limited frequency range of the backing, which ends at 8 kHz, but mostly is up to 3 kHz. In other songs I limited some freuquency ranges of the backing track with a multiband compressor and noticed that my voice doesn't mix into the backing anymore or suddenly seems rather flat. that's why I think the noise I hear in my voice is somehow amplified by the backing. if I mute the backing it's not as strong anymore. only some sound engineer could explain this to me, I guess or maybe it's just me hearing things ... lol

I decided to upload the new test, the whole song this time.

BEWARE, it's just a test, I know I sing wrong notes and I think my pronunciation is also not that correct

I also think it sounds pressed when I sing the louder higher parts, the "halleluja" on the other hand sounds relaxed.

Jens suggested to connect the words some more. I didn't concentrate on doing this here. I even intended some breaks/cuts between the words to make it sound more dramatically, but I'm not sure if it worked out or sounds good.

hallelujah_nik_test1.mp3

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I like the Tom Petty dip approach to the notes. Good tone. The only thing I could suggest, and it's only a suggestion, to make the refrain flow just a little smoother. When you sing the first syllable of hallelujah, you are pronouncing the a as one would in the name Hal or the word, back. Try pronouncing the letter a as you would in the word hall. It will flow easier into the l and the eh sound because the structure for forming those pronunciations are more similar than what it takes to do the short a in back or Hal. Good recording, all around.

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Hey Nik, it sounds to me like you're not opening your throat enough. Your tone sounds very good. I could hear you having some trouble with your bridge in a couple places but you were good to "trick" us by quickly flipping into each register. Practice blending registers while opening your throat and still keeping that "pointy" edge to the sound. Opening the throat has been a tough one for me to even understand, what it feels like to me is letting go of the muscles to hold the tone in place (i.e. strain) and instead using a different set of muscles (i.e. tension). It almost feels like you're inhaling the tone. Opening the throat will help you bridge easier but remember not to lose the pointy sound just because you're opening more. Sounds decent man, love your accent :)

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i'm no expert by any means, i've had no formal training in singing, though i like to think i can hold my own. Here's my two cents. I don't know how long you have been a passionate singer, though its obvious you are. I'm 33 and have been singing since i could talk. I started as a vocal mimic and drowned my own voice in others for the better part of 25 years. Broke free and i've been developing MY voice since. NOW. to begin i haven't heard any vibratto in Mad World. Some vocalists can do it, some cannot, Some can and don't do it, Some do it but want to stop and can't. I can do both and enjoy the versatility it provides. Its the difference between Sade, and Madonna. Fewer vocalists go the way of less to no vibratto. Its kinda the media WHORE right now. I Note none in Mad World. is this by choice? if not is it something you aspire to cuz its soooo within your reach. you have awesome tone and i happen to think the rasp you hear may be the ghost calling to the past of its own birth. I think you should embrace rasp as a technique. Damn right alot of us would kill for it, though again i don't really heart it here. I can't help but think you might be surprised. Best advice i can give to vibratto....................... fake it first. It will naturally follow. (but again its not REALLY FAKE is it. Just another techniquel.) lookin for hallelujah by you in here. Its bound to be great. Thanks for visiting my pages.

BTW. KEEP SINGING MY BRETHA. You got the shine!

ummmm bummer. It appears i have to join for an upgrade to hear hallelujah. would Really like to hear it.

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hey ya'll :)

@ronws: you mean adding a bit of an oh-sound to the "a"? like opening the mouth forming an "o" instead of making in wide? hmm it's hard for me writing about it, I suppose I could write it like "hawl~lelujah"?

@g0dvollie: that might be the case :o I tried different approaches recently. a few weeks ago after I didn't sing for a few days my jaw started to ache after some singing. so I tried to relax all muscles while singing. but this also caused me trouble with sing with a bit more power, it felt like I don't have any power at all. now it feels like I can do that a little easier, my jaw didn't hurt at all recently but I also don't feel any muscles in my throat or, in other words I don't exactly know which muscles/where in my throat

another thing which might restrict me somehow is the fact that I can't really scream. I mean I never screamed like AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH *scared*, for a long time I had troubles singing something like yeah~~~eahh, heyyy~~~yeah ... I can do it a bit better now but still not satisfying lol

in a book about vocal lessons I read about imagining where the tone is created. I tried to "create" it in my forehead, in my belly, right behind the front teeth, around my uvula(?) etc

I didn't notice a difference which causes me a little trouble because I always think I sing "wrong"

I also don't feel the "support" caused by the diaphragm/midriff. I might use it without knowing it (I breath into my belly though)

do you know any exercise concerning this problem?

@Wooferine: well, I'll be 30 in a few months and I sing for about 3 years and 3 months now. Before I only sang in my car while driving, then I became fan of a German band and this kinda was like a kick in the butt for me to finally start singing in a more professional way. Recording it, listen to it, recording it again but making it better than the previous try.

The first time I heard what I sang was the worst .... LOL ... I so wanted to get rid of my microphone and do something else than singing, but then gave it another try and yeah ... that brought me to this forum after 3 years :)

I don't have any idea about vibrato, I sometimes notice that my voice "vibrates", but I often can't replicate it or it only works a short time (for example right when I start singing for the 1st time of a day)

I can fake it but not for every note/tone and I fake it in my throat but not using the midriff. if I try using the midriff it sounds like I give it a sharp pulse, faking it in the throat adds a fading before and after this "pulse", hard to describe :D

I just thought it might be good to develop it since it makes the sound of the voice a little more interesting.

with rasp you probably mean the kind of voices Rod Stewart or Bon Jovi have, right? I really struggle trying to sing Bed of roses by bon jovi but I experimented with Runaway by Del Shannon and I managed to sing a little bit raspy there but again, it doesn't always work. it seems like I have to really relax the throat to make something "swing" and cause this sound, but I could be so wrong about this

I usually just sing. I chose a song I feel like singing and sing it. That's all I do because I don't know where to start or what exactly to practice :)

I'll redo hallelujah, I don't know when exactly but I plan to release a "try 1" instead of just tests and I also want to make a video for youtube if it's good enough :D

thanks for listening and helping me :)

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hey ya'll :)

@ronws: you mean adding a bit of an oh-sound to the "a"? like opening the mouth forming an "o" instead of making in wide? hmm it's hard for me writing about it, I suppose I could write it like "hawl~lelujah"?

Yes. Pronounce that first syllable like you were british.

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