#4 Snejk - Still Loving You (Scorpions)

[Snejk]

Okay, so I was closing the café and felt like.. Hmm, I r wants to singz...

Now I can't sing this song even CLOSE to it's original key... This is pretty much as high as I can sing it decently without having to go into falsetto mix or a breathy chest...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DajcDRjqPgs

I don't quite know the lyrics but... Any feedback is appreciated.. I would love to learn how to sing it higher since this mid range doesn't sound too well.

/Patrik

[ronws]

Your pitch was perfect for the range you were singing in. I think what is preventing you from going higher with the confidence you want is that, in the range you are singing, you sang I think what they call neutral. No twang or curbing. So, singing-wise, you were in your comfort zone. Curbing is going to require less air pressure than you are using and you fear that might weaken the note. Funny thing is, properly resonated, a curbed or twang note does not lose any strength.

Now, you could try it in falsetto, just concentrating on pitch. Once you are comfortable with that, then experiment with the falsetto by bringing the chords closer together until not so much air is bleeding through. That is, sneak up on a fuller head voice. Or, transition slowly from falsetto tone to a crying tone (which I think is what Klaus is doing in that song.)

[jonpall]

ronws's "sneaking up to" a fuller head voice idea is a good one. You could try that.

[VideoHere]

Okay, so I was closing the café and felt like.. Hmm, I r wants to singz...

Now I can't sing this song even CLOSE to it's original key... This is pretty much as high as I can sing it decently without having to go into falsetto mix or a breathy chest...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DajcDRjqPgs

I don't quite know the lyrics but... Any feedback is appreciated.. I would love to learn how to sing it higher since this mid range doesn't sound too well.

/Patrik

may i offer a suggestion, i get that sound this way:

referring to "to win back your love again"

be fully warmed up and a nice open throat

maintain a stable larynx

breath support and control is crutial for this song

start with an operetic-sounding head tone, then gently spread your mouth out sideways and twang the notes while trying/visualizing your driving the sound up into your soft palate.

and sing this:

tau weeeen baaaaaak yaaaaaa laaaaaav ahgiiiin

just trying to help.

[Snejk]

I posted an updated clip;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKMoAJsV0Aw

I try to explain how I interpret your advice in it :p

[VideoHere]

I posted an updated clip;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKMoAJsV0Aw

I try to explain how I interpret your advice in it

snejk,

listen man, first analize your vocal requisites here...don't do anymore than you have to lol!!!.

i first grabbed you a 1984 live version, and he dosen't appear to be singing it as high as you are.

you've got a lot of a4#'s to deal with (his later years he's down to an a) but you've gotta get to them with top down head voice phonation and twang. lock down and keep an open throat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFu6VH2tYFA

[Snejk]

My vocal requisites? I perhaps should have listened to the original before doing the second recording ;P I was like "I try this high, I know he sings EVEN higher but meh"... I has such a fabulous timbre to his voice... Feather light, clean with no distortion... He doesn't sound the least bit heady, you know what I mean?

A#4 is not really a problem... But tenor C and above, my falsetto/head shines through so badly no matter how I try to disguise it to sound chesty .p

I wish I could get some example how to make head voice sound full chest, going from pure head then changing the tone slowly, blending it over.. Then I could probably imitate it and understand it easier... :3

Thanks though!!! :D

[ronws]

Now, I know what your problem is. And it's not one of vocal ability or range. Or pitch control. It is one of perception. It was incredibly helpful when you gave an example of what you thought of head voice. What you thought was head voice is a tone you have developed but actually, it sounds like a tone you created while mixing registers. But that tone is not headvoice. In your higher rendition where you think you are cracking, (and I don't think you are, cellphone mic and all), that was also headvoice, different resonance and timbre. By the way, I think you did fine on the second version, even though tempo changed, I knew it was a rough cut to simply illustrate what you were talking about. Do you remember in your other Scorpions thread where I gave you an example of "Rock you like a hurricane"? The high parts, "are you ready, Baby?" and "Come on, come on, come on!"? Those were in head voice. Head voice is an area of resonance, not a tone, such as what you displayed, which was actually something close to operatic. I invite you to look at your own video again and see how your face is shaped in the operatic version that you think is head voice and the "cracked" version that I think was better.

Dude, you can sing this song in the original range. When I hear it, Klause is using curbing or crying for much of it and head resonance on the highest notes.

I know you think you are stuck as a baritone but your latest example shows me you can do tenor. You just have to shift to a new paradigm as to what you think head voice is.

[Snejk]

Ah thanks for the in-depths comment Ronws... I have always made the connection head voice = non-breathy falsetto... You know, when guys speak in "girl voice" which was what I tried to demonstrate. My voice has like.. Two REALLY different coordinations.. Either it's "normal" or it's "falsetto". It's a VERY distinct feeling in my throat when I use either one, or switch from one to another (for example sliding from overdrive to distorted 'falsetto'. It sounds 100% connected but the feeling in the throat shifts big time in one decisive 'flip'. If you know what I mean? That's how I make the distinction.

And yeah, I could hear his head voice in those parts of Hurricane, but those were obvious, there were no "disguising them as chest" if you get what I aim at?

Anyway, I appreciate the clarifications alot. I will continue to sing, sing, SING and see what happens!! :)

[VideoHere]

Ah thanks for the in-depths comment Ronws... I have always made the connection head voice = non-breathy falsetto... You know, when guys speak in "girl voice" which was what I tried to demonstrate. My voice has like.. Two REALLY different coordinations.. Either it's "normal" or it's "falsetto". It's a VERY distinct feeling in my throat when I use either one, or switch from one to another (for example sliding from overdrive to distorted 'falsetto'. It sounds 100% connected but the feeling in the throat shifts big time in one decisive 'flip'. If you know what I mean? That's how I make the distinction.

And yeah, I could hear his head voice in those parts of Hurricane, but those were obvious, there were no "disguising them as chest" if you get what I aim at?

Anyway, I appreciate the clarifications alot. I will continue to sing, sing, SING and see what happens!!

i recommend messa di voce to develop the ability transcend from a light head tone to a full voiced chestier tone.

[ronws]

Yes, do what Bob says, in order to build support for the upper end.

And while you are at it, get it out of your head that you sound like a girl. Don't make me come over there and whoop the girly thoughts right out of your head.

I have told you that you have the voice of an angel and I still think so. Since we are individuals, we each have a specific sound, stemming from the construction of the cords themselves. How limber our muscles are to control them, even the shape of our vocal tract, including how big and loose the false cords are, what the shape of the sinus cavity and soft pallete are. All these things can affect our final sound. So, to some extent, you voice is a gift from God, or, you are born with it, whatever. Even, to some extent, the language you grew speaking, as it definitely affects how you phonate. What is different is what you do with it.

Would you say Justin Hawkins sings like a girl? I know plenty of women and a few girls that cannot sing as high as he can, regardless. David Lee Roth misses the days when he had a voice like an angel and could make his russian grandma cry with a church hymnal.

Anyway, do like Bob said but get it out of your head that you are hiding something in chest voice. Now that I think of it, even my version of "Rock you like a hurricane" was actually mixed for most of it. Please consider that word. Mixed, that means some of each. Some chest, some head ( when actually those are handy misnomers to describe a resonance) neither one being rejected.

As you practice the support, also experiment with resonances. Make it sound funny, evil, super-angelic.

Also, can you explain how you know beyond any reasonal doubt that Klaus Meine is not using mixing, essentially with curbing and crying and using more head voice than you think he does. That means that he is using head voice quite a bit, just not the tone that you thought was "true" headvoice." The point of this is, as Dolph Lundgren said in the Rocky movie, "I must break you." "I must break you" of this notion that the quasi operatic tone that you generated was not the definition of head resonance. If you were resonating in the head fine, but that sound was a tone. A tone that can be changed.

So, we'll hear no more talk about how you can't sing tenor, that one particular tone defines a range of resonance. "I must break" you of the notion that the entire range of tenor must be sung in chest voice, except for the very highest notes where it's okay to shriek like a girl in head voice. I definitely must break you of that.

Falsetto is a tone, not a resonance. It is a specific tone brought on by cords being close enough to produce a sound but not much closer, and therefore more air escapes. You can do falsetto at any part of your range, including low end, which makes it a tone or, as I used to say, a style of singing rather than a range. I must break you of the notion that falsetto is a range. When the cords are close enough to make a fully support sound and almost no air is escaping, that is a supported note, not falsetto, no matter how "girly" or angelic the note sounds. Just because a note doesn't have grit does not make it falsetto.

I know what you are talking about when the voice flips. That's to get around the passagio. The passagio is where you are shifting resonances.

Why must I break you of all this? Because I want to hear you perform any song from the entire Scorpions catalog, including the newest and supposedly last album, Sting in the Tail, with confidence. For example, you could really do "Lorelei." And you would nail it on "The Spirit of Rock."

Now, I have taken liberties with expression. Of course, I wouldn't really break you physically. I'm just saying that I'm going to keep reminding you that you can do this and I'm going to make comments when I think you misunderstood something and that misunderstanding is holding you back from where you want to be.

You can do this and I will be your cheerleader (though I am not going to wear one of those skirts and do cartwheels and I would hurt myself with a handstand.)

[ronws]

Use this phrase from "Spirit of Rock" to experiment with.

"We are in the ocean.

Every kind of fish.

We are a human rainbow.

We are whatever we wish."

Why? because it involves mixing. Second, it is a new song, so you can get away from ingrained expectations in the older stuff. And these are easy syllables that could allow you to change vowel shapes to find your path to fully support your notes, though I think you can already do it. This will also help build confidence. When you have confidence, you commit to the note.

Here's the song. And trust me, he's not using much chest. Mostly mix, and more head voice than you think.

What Scorpions do retire, at least as a group? We need someone to carry on. It could be you. When I was your about 26 years and was first learning to resonate in the head, I thought I sounded like Klause Meine. I think I have changed since then. But you remind me of me when I was that age and I want to see you succeed. Plus, you have picked songs and a group near and dear to our hearts. I have "Sting in the Tail" and my wife has the greatest hits album.