"Have You Ever Seen the Rain?" by CCR, a collab

[ronws]

I was asked to post this. As the lead feels maybe I will get better traction. He don't know, do he? I have the slipperiest feet, no traction, at all. At first, it was going to be more of a duet where I would sing part of it, he would sing part of it. His phrasing is markedly different. So, I felt it better that I just do harmony vocals and edge it to the back of the mix.

"Have You Ever Seen the Rain?" By Creedence Clearwater Revival, vocals by Bay Harbor Butcher, feat. ronws

https://app.box.com/s/d771a3xj6mp3qrpfkany

[Javastorm]

I liked this version. I thought the lead vocals started a bit too strong and excessive at the beginning of the song, but after the second chorus it seemed to flow better. There were some parts that I felt Bay didn't need to use as much power, like on "I wanna know..". It was a little disconcerting because it didn't balance with the background music, I thought, but it would have worked really well with a true R&B song. Really cool phrasing though, it fit the song somehow. And from what I could hear, the harmonies worked nicely. :)

[Singingnewbie]

Great! If only you could match the harmony wording better and it is the 2nd voice that has to follow the leads wording (eehm ronws ). If both vocals were done at the same time, ok but if you got butchers track first and then added yours maybe you should "study" his wording and follow. Butcher the first scream after chorus was a bit off and weak, ronws you did very good job at the 2nd scream and general backing vocals. Sorry i might be harsh but you know i am nit-picking. All in all very nice!

[Bay_Harbor_Butcher]

Great! If only you could match the harmony wording better and it is the 2nd voice that has to follow the leads wording (eehm ronws ). If both vocals were done at the same time, ok but if you got butchers track first and then added yours maybe you should "study" his wording and follow. Butcher the first scream after chorus was a bit off and weak, ronws you did very good job at the 2nd scream and general backing vocals. Sorry i might be harsh but you know i am nit-picking. All in all very nice!

Ron did all the screaming.

And btw, the rule of the thumb is never apologize when you nitpick. Leave the singing to us and keep doing your excellent job of nitpicking if it helps you sleep at night.

[Singingnewbie]

Since i started nit-picking im having the best sleep since years, i think doctors should prescribe it for insomnia.

One might want to be judged tightly and another might want to hear sugar words and applauds. I don't know what you want and how you take my words but from my point of view the better the singing the harsher the critique should be. That explains me apologizing and my critique-o-meter.

[ronws]

Great! If only you could match the harmony wording better and it is the 2nd voice that has to follow the leads wording (eehm ronws ). If both vocals were done at the same time, ok but if you got butchers track first and then added yours maybe you should "study" his wording and follow. Butcher the first scream after chorus was a bit off and weak, ronws you did very good job at the 2nd scream and general backing vocals. Sorry i might be harsh but you know i am nit-picking. All in all very nice!

1974 - this song and another CCR song "Who'll Stop the Rain?" were in my head. I first picked up a guitar in October 1974 and it had only 3 strings and I started picking the arpeggio to "Who'll Stop the Rain?"

Anyway, so I did study and listen to Bay's phrasing. I don't have the R&B skills to do it like he does. Not that I could not get them, I am just not into singing in an R & B style. I am more of the rock style. So, my harmony bits are more along the lines of how John Fogerty does it, albeit, cleaner. And, yeah, I do the rock "scream." From about a foot away with reduced input levels. And then, in mixing, I kept it in the background with 1.5 compressor and a slight echo, so as not to compete with the lead vocal.

It was fun to do it. And actually, believe it or not, this was a good editing exercise for me, as I have gotten better at using Audacity, which is more intuitive for me than Cubase.

Bay recorded his version and I just imported that, sang with it, then mixed it. His was such a strong and identifiable peformance that having me sing some verses in more of the rock style, I think, would have disturbed the continuity.

But thanks for the input.

[Bay_Harbor_Butcher]

Since i started nit-picking im having the best sleep since years, i think doctors should prescribe it for insomnia.

One might want to be judged tightly and another might want to hear sugar words and applauds. I don't know what you want and how you take my words but from my point of view the better the singing the harsher the critique should be. That explains me apologizing and my critique-o-meter.

Pity. You should invest more time on singing than nitpicking. But I bet you must be very good at it as well. I'm super jealous. :rolleyes:

[MDEW]

I kind of like the RnB sound with this song. I could not hear Ronws enough to really tell what he was singing. It sounded more like he was singing the lead line instead of a harmony. Again it may just be my failing ears I barely heard him.(I have tinnitis and fans are turned to high in my room. plus I am using outdated, cheap in ear headphones.)

Did one of you record the instuments or did you find a backing track to sing to?

[Singingnewbie]

I mean step over his words, when his word starts yours start too and the syllables are on top of each other until the word ends, not doing exactly what he does. On some parts i can hear something like time difference between lead and backing vocals. Mixing was fine btw.

Butcher i'm sorry you can't or don't want to understand my point of view. Don't take what i write offensively. I feel like writing at the "Tell Us About You" section.

I don't understand what the pity is about but thanks for the advice. I don't take whole day to write a review, i just listen to the song and re-listen many times spots i didn't like or i think they are "objectively" wrong (i don't have the best ear i have to admit) or i think could improve. That takes lets say 10'. You are asking for critique, i am trying to provide with what i can understand about music. Also i do my critique and at the end i write a comment on how i liked it generally which is like a grade to understand better. Just keep that last comment as a critique. You don't like either my critique or my way of expressing it, roger that, you won't hear from me again.

You lost your bet , i'm not good at singing so you can stop being jealous! I posted two songs before half a year and got my critique, it was around what i expected bad singing, out of my range and more. The reason i don't post covers is that i have a -great- teacher to review, critique and correct my singing real time and i am at a point where i can correct my own mistakes by recording. Hope i reach the point where i will need others to show me my mistakes.

I don't believe you need someone better than you to judge you, sing in public and watch the peoples behavior, that gives an estimation of where your singing stands. Vast majority can't sing better than you and heck i dare to say even better than me. If they start changing direction to avoid you means you could say like "Hey go sing better and come back to judge me"? If we were at a team sport and played at the same position and i judge you for something then you could say, "Do it better before you correct me" though i don't support even that attitude, it is more acceptable.

At last i remind you, you are at "Review & Critique My Singing" section, at your own will.

Don't misinterpret what i'm saying or take it offensively.

Man, that message took me about 40' to compose and correct, i could've nit-picked 4 songs by now. I'm gonna have some hard time sleeping tonight :P

[Gneetapp]

Hey guys, I liked it! I think that the vocals were a bit louder than the backing track, and as Bay_Harbor_Butcher is a great belter, I think if you lowered the vocals a bit, it would still cut through easily. I could not pick it up on a quick listen, but were the vocals in harmony or singing the same melody? Great job overall.

[ronws]

Good question, MDEW. Bay had the backing track. But I was struck by how much the guitar solo sounded like one I would come up for this and wondered if someone might think I played an instrument on it. I did not. Just a bit of singing, here and there.

And yeah, I am so used to the original that I probably was singing the original lead line but in this context, it was harmony to Bay's new lead line.

Arrangement is everything.

[MDEW]

The guitar lead did sound like something you would play. It also sounded like it was added after the rest of the instruments even maybe recorded on a totaly different recorder.

[slstone]

MDEW, you are correct, it wasn't actually harmony, it's unison. Harmony, in music, is an opposing note. Unison is when you sing the same note, even if it is in a different octave.

p.s. I still say Bay is a Dexter fan.

[slstone]

I mean step over his words, when his word starts yours start too and the syllables are on top of each other until the word ends, not doing exactly what he does. On some parts i can hear something like time difference between lead and backing vocals. Mixing was fine btw.

Butcher i'm sorry you can't or don't want to understand my point of view. Don't take what i write offensively. I feel like writing at the "Tell Us About You" section.

I don't understand what the pity is about but thanks for the advice. I don't take whole day to write a review, i just listen to the song and re-listen many times spots i didn't like or i think they are "objectively" wrong (i don't have the best ear i have to admit) or i think could improve. That takes lets say 10'. You are asking for critique, i am trying to provide with what i can understand about music. Also i do my critique and at the end i write a comment on how i liked it generally which is like a grade to understand better. Just keep that last comment as a critique. You don't like either my critique or my way of expressing it, roger that, you won't hear from me again.

You lost your bet , i'm not good at singing so you can stop being jealous! I posted two songs before half a year and got my critique, it was around what i expected bad singing, out of my range and more. The reason i don't post covers is that i have a -great- teacher to review, critique and correct my singing real time and i am at a point where i can correct my own mistakes by recording. Hope i reach the point where i will need others to show me my mistakes.

I don't believe you need someone better than you to judge you, sing in public and watch the peoples behavior, that gives an estimation of where your singing stands. Vast majority can't sing better than you and heck i dare to say even better than me. If they start changing direction to avoid you means you could say like "Hey go sing better and come back to judge me"? If we were at a team sport and played at the same position and i judge you for something then you could say, "Do it better before you correct me" though i don't support even that attitude, it is more acceptable.

At last i remind you, you are at "Review & Critique My Singing" section, at your own will.

Don't misinterpret what i'm saying or take it offensively.

Man, that message took me about 40' to compose and correct, i could've nit-picked 4 songs by now. I'm gonna have some hard time sleeping tonight

Those reasons are why I don't critique anybody here, I only post comments relative to the subject, rather than comments on the actual songs/performance etc. People get their feelings hurt when something less than stellar is posted. It becomes difficult for progress to occur when people are busy being defensive rather than focusing on how to make it better.

[Bay_Harbor_Butcher]

MDEW, you are correct, it wasn't actually harmony, it's unison. Harmony, in music, is an opposing note. Unison is when you sing the same note, even if it is in a different octave.

p.s. I still say Bay is a Dexter fan.

I am a Dexter fan. :P

[ronws]

Actually, I think Newbie's original critique was more aimed at me, since she thought I was not matching what Bay was doing. All I was doing was singing behind the lead and cutting short so as not to compete. I am not an R&B singer, I don't follow the genre as a rule, I am quite familiar with the original. And still, I liked Bay's version so much, I didn't want to mess with it and had no problems singing "back-up," even if I was using the original line.

Probably because I have to shave every day, wear long pants, pay bills, you know, be a man. For me, it's about the song. I think Bay did a fine job and I was glad to help, if possible. Though Newbie thinks I was out of synch.

And that's okay. Like I said, shaving every day, wearing long pants, paying bills, drinking coffee, I Is a grown man and can accept that not everyone will be a fan. But gracious enough to accept applause from those who like it.

Or not. I had fun doing the song and not one of you is big enough take that away from me, though it would be humurous for you to try. To quote Clint Eastwood, "Go ahead, make my day ..."

[Singingnewbie]

Actually butchers part was flawless i could say and very few if any parts could improve (according to my personal taste ofcourse).

For the rest of the discussion there are things i don't understand... on the other hand there should be a "Showcase" section or something like that, free of critique, just to present our work and i am not kidding. You are right, now i re-read the initial post you are not asking for a review, my bad to start this, sorry.

[David]

I didn't like it... although pitch was on, there was no emotion in the song - only going through the motions...

I agree it was more of a unison then a harmony

Singingnewbie, Yup, they were just showcasing the song. I agree they need a "showcase" area for those just looking for applause -- I have a few I'd post to that too.. I also agree that Bay doesn't like critique and gets offended easily over it... But meh..... He has a good voice and usually does good on his songs..

[Bay_Harbor_Butcher]

I didn't like it... although pitch was on, there was no emotion in the song - only going through the motions...

I agree it was more of a unison then a harmony

Singingnewbie, Yup, they were just showcasing the song. I agree they need a "showcase" area for those just looking for applause -- I have a few I'd post to that too.. I also agree that Bay doesn't like critique and gets offended easily over it... But meh..... He has a good voice and usually does good on his songs..

Other than this, when was I offended by a critique? Oh I remember you offended me but not because of your critique but by your unnecessary slur on a thread I posted because apparently you had a problem with me posting cover after cover.

I am actually curious as to what you can do with your voice given your extensive training which I never got.

Last time I checked, envy is still one of biggest sins. Ron is right, some people here tend to speak like they are "the authority" which only backfires because it so reveals how insecure one can get.

[David]

Bay........

meh.... not worth it... You don't want to hear anything you don't want to hear.. so no point...

haha.

[wabba_treads]

Cool to see duets happening! Hope there's more in the future for TMV.

Anyways overall a cool song to choose to duet with and both of you nailed your lines. The only thing I can add is that to double check to make sure you both are balanced and synchronized in the final mix. Ron you sounded a bit muffled to me for some reason (maybe it was the compressor kicking in? O_o idk)

Whenever you guys went in unison Bay, you overpowered Ron a bit on a few of the verses, but again thats probably due to the mixing because Ron's pretty loud on his own .

I could be wrong, but this kind of duet might work out better if both of you recorded this live together like on a webcam session, but I don't know if thats possible... In the long run, good work, I could tell you guys put some effort into this.

[ronws]

Cool to see duets happening! Hope there's more in the future for TMV.

That would be cool.

[slstone]

"Have You Ever Seen the Rain?" By Creedence Clearwater Revival, vocals by Bay Harbor Butcher, harmony by ronws

Just as a note, bro, the reason people are discussing the backup vocals is because in the original post, you mentioned your part was harmony, not backup. Anyway, just clarifying...

[Adoney]

@BHB I'm very impressed

[ronws]

Yeah, I got it the first few times. Perhaps I should edit the original post.