Jump to content

Baritone/Bass Singers With High Notes?

Rate this topic


JackCee

Recommended Posts

The lowest note I made felt like a croak to me, with really low air speed. That was the E2 in "Silent Lucidity." But most anything, for me, below C2, sounds kind of wolfish or woolen or some other odd description.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what I figured so I would like to train a bass that wants to sing pop and rock to see if I would have success.

I think the differences in training are subtle. I use the TVS stuff mostly and I only have to vary things very slightly. Rob bridges around E4 (formant-wise) on most excercises. If I do it like this my sound is okay but not perfect. I usually end up with a bit too high larynx and a bit too much compression. To be perfectly fine I have to leave the F1 area more around D4.

 

I think I remember a paper that found the exit of F1 amplification to be something like D4 for basses, E4 for baritones and F4 for tenors on average. So you just do the same things a little bit lower in pitch. I remember Rob stating on the forum that for higher tenors he did use his methods basically in the same way just shifted up 1 or 2 notes. For basses its also the same, just shifted down 1 or 2 notes.

 

On even higher pitches you will have an earlier transition into M2 mode as a bass, but if you handle the formant transitions correctly the M1->M2 transition usually comes automatically anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Hi Benny, 

 

Interesting... so you are a voice coach?

 

I guess you have the TVS content?  I would be interested in learning more about the "TVS stuff" you are teaching to your students... sorry to get off topic here... send me a PM.  Where are you located?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Benny, 

 

Interesting... so you are a voice coach?

 

I guess you have the TVS content?  I would be interested in learning more about the "TVS stuff" you are teaching to your students... sorry to get off topic here... send me a PM.  Where are you located?

I'm not a coach. Just a student myself ;-) TVS is really great for training without an actual coach because the content is so detailed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

I'm not a coach. Just a student myself ;-) TVS is really great for training without an actual coach because the content is so detailed.

 

I am exceedingly pleased to hear you say that... because that is one of the things that I am working my ass off to achieve... to create a program that has enough detail and instructions and media to enable people to get meaningful progress without having to take a lesson. Sometimes I wonder if all this work and sacrifice going into "Pillars" is worth it?  I could just deliver a product like everyone else... no book, or no training content, no demonstrations of the workouts, no detailed routines, no science, no new ideas... just take the money and not give you guys anything particularly special... but I have decided to hedge my bets on giving people something special.  I'm glad to hear it is working for some people... BTW... if anyone were to wonder why I don't sing four nights a week in a cover band right now... this is why. My limited time and energy is committed to this product and students of vocal training. There is only so many hours in the day... BUT!... I am on the last push to being able to put this thing down for a while and call it 100% complete... that will enable me to do more of this... 

"Pillars" that is going to blow people's minds!  If you thought the program was detailed and helped you to make tangible progress before... wait until you see whats coming.... and it will be multi-lingual.  

 

What version of "The Four Pillars of Singing" do you have?  How long have you had it?

 

Und was region of Deutschland do you live in?  I have a lot of friends in Germany and a few TVS CIs there... Ich liebe Deutschland!  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Robert, your effort is absolutely worth it.    I have 2 more outstanding paid-for lessons with you but I'm going to hold off of using them for a while, because the material stands so well on its own, especially with a few helpful tips from you here on the forum in response to postings of samples.  I think that speaks to the value of the package.]

 

TVS is actually causing me to seriously neglect my guitar practice, which is really my first love.  The TVS training stuff is compelling because, at this early stage for me anyway as a pretty undeveloped singer, I can sense the progress with each practice session.    The information in the book and lectures makes results in an understanding of the why and how of the exercises in a way that makes it easy to put the time in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You can never replace a lesson with me, I still highly recommend it, but I do try to make the product as complete as I can... I want my clients to actually succeed and get real gains with "Pillars"... not just buy something with no explanation or training routines or book or... At this very moment, I am working my ass off again, building out a new online version of "Pillars" that is going to blow people's minds!  If you thought the program was detailed and helped you to make tangible progress before... wait until you see whats coming.... and it will be multi-lingual.  

 

What version of "The Four Pillars of Singing" do you have?  How long have you had it?

 

Und was region of Deutschland do you live in?  I have a lot of friends in Germany and a few TVS CIs there... Ich liebe Deutschland!  

I'd love to get some lessons some day, but currently I just don't have any free time, didn't even manage to get to band rehearsal the last month ;-(

 

I think I have version 2.0 and I have it for something like 2 years. I live in Bochum, which is in the ruhr area (somehwere between Essen and Dortmund).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My wife's family emigrated in the 1850's from Oppendorf and Wehdem. 

 

My mother's father was from Germany but I don't know which part. I want to say the Westphalia area but I could be wrong. For one thing, upon reaching America, his family changed their last name to Cook. It could have originally been Kuech or anything meaning the same. I can't find out now, I am pretty sure anyone that knew has passed on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol while we are at it, half of my mother family lives in Hamburg and Stuttgart. :P  Und Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch, aber nich sehr gut :P And half of my fathers familiy lives in Italy, region of Toscana.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ich sprechen some Deutch, also. Zwei jahren in hochschule und zwei jahren mehr zu hause.

 

Funny thing, sort of. My wife's father was in the 9th USAF, 410 Light Bomber Group, 646th Squadron in WWII. Because he spoke german, as a matter of family heritage, and he worked in the mess division, he was also caretaker for german POWs, because he could translate and give out work assignments. Most of the POWs were 16 - 19 years old, scared out of their minds, no idea what was happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also speak some Spanish, mostly what we call texmex. I had learned the curse words, first, then, later, enough technical description to work with guys in construction who understand Spanish more than they understand English.

 

A few words in other languages. I worked with a guy who was born in Germany but grew up in the Ukraine, working power stations over there. He knew almost no german but I new a few words of Russian, which was close enough. I don't know any Portuguese, though, to me, it sounds similar in accent and cadence to the castillian Spanish one might find in the higher cultured parts of Spain. I know enough French to get slapped.

 

I used to know a few words of Ethiopian and a smattering of arabi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep. G3/A3 is where the first break is. Same for me. Second one is around C#4/D4. Third one ("flageolet break") is around A#4.

Hey, here is a question that is perhaps slightly off topic. It's something I never understood, perhaps you can help me:

I always thought that breaks like that was something beginners experienced and then teachers could use this information to sort of measure a persons voice type. I thought that once a person practiced to a certain extent, the breaks would disappear. But apparently trained/experienced singers can still locate them.

Personally, I can break voluntarily between different modes at any pitch within my range, but I wouldn't know how to find these sort of natural breaks. How do you do that? Or maybe it's much more subtle than breaks between modes? (volume/sound color changes)

 

Best regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, here is a question that is perhaps slightly off topic. It's something I never understood, perhaps you can help me:

I always thought that breaks like that was something beginners experienced and then teachers could use this information to sort of measure a persons voice type. I thought that once a person practiced to a certain extent, the breaks would disappear. But apparently trained/experienced singers can still locate them.

Personally, I can break voluntarily between different modes at any pitch within my range, but I wouldn't know how to find these sort of natural breaks. How do you do that? Or maybe it's much more subtle than breaks between modes? (volume/sound color changes)

 

Best regards

I have seen Ronnie James Dio, an experienced singer, crack a note. On a song that he wrote. Though not necessarily "out of his range."

 

So, it can happen, now and then, even to experienced singers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see what you mean. But what about those voice-type-specific breaks that Benny is talking about? I mean, the way I see it, a break like the one you are talking about could happen anywhere in the range if technique suddenly failed for some reason.

 

Best regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Hey, here is a question that is perhaps slightly off topic. It's something I never understood, perhaps you can help me:

I always thought that breaks like that was something beginners experienced and then teachers could use this information to sort of measure a persons voice type. I thought that once a person practiced to a certain extent, the breaks would disappear. But apparently trained/experienced singers can still locate them.

Personally, I can break voluntarily between different modes at any pitch within my range, but I wouldn't know how to find these sort of natural breaks. How do you do that? Or maybe it's much more subtle than breaks between modes? (volume/sound color changes)

 

Best regards

 

Just replace the word "break" with "passagio" or "bridge".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but how do you find the passagio? How do you locate the spots where your voice naturally wants to break?

 

Best regards

 

Try going from D3 up to A4 in a light voice...like you are speaking and u will either feel a sudden shift or a gradual breathiness that happens around D4-F#4..thats kinda where it happens

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but how do you find the passagio? How do you locate the spots where your voice naturally wants to break?

 

Best regards

It is the point where "something" has to change in the voice. Beginners break there because they don't know how to change that something. Experienced singers still have to do these changes and the point where they are applied is the passaggio.

 

The first passaggio is usually where your "normal speaking voice" stops and you either have to increase volume or change to a lighter sound color. The first point where some change happens. Just try to get higher with your speaking voice, don't sing, speak the notes and watch out what happens.

 

Experienced singers will smooth out everything, the changes on fold level, the acoustic changes and the timbre, so it becomes very hard to hear, but on your speaking voice its mostly easy to find.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...