nevergiveup

Mixed voice sounds like vocal fry?

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I have played piano for a while and last year began singing along with it. I have always liked singing for fun, but lately I have been getting more serious about singing. I found out about the elusive but magical "mixed voice" and have been trying different methods I have heard to get my voice into mixed voice. I finally got it a couple days ago and could feel it in my chest and my head, but something sounds very wrong with it. It sounds like vocal fry in the sense that the chest voice part of it cuts in and out like popcorn popping. I am wondering if there is any way to fix this? Or should I just keep practicing, doing scales, etc. until this sound stops and the mixed voice is nice and smooth? I

I am unable to post any link at this time, but I might be able to tomorrow if it would help.

(Also, sometimes I notice that it sounds like my head voice is an octave higher than my chest voice??? even though I didn't think this was possible.)

LINK TO WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE: https://soundcloud.com/nevergiveup123-1/cracklinghoarse-mixed-voice

It sounds like I am straining, but I am not, it it comfortable singing that, it just sounds horrible.

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Great forum name lol. Kind of really need to hear this to completely understand what you are referring to. I would be glad to listen as soon as you post a clip.

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To tell you the truth the terms are really subjectively used. So what you're thinking of as mix voice or head voice may not meet the next person's definition, especially if you just found it and haven't trained with professionals or been part of part of a like minded singing community for awhile. Even different communities use different terms. it's going to be pretty much impossible to help too much until there was a sound example. Even then, people's ears are fallible, and are opinionated of what mixed voice even means.

I've heard it explained a resonance standpoint, a vocal formant standpoint, a physiological standpoint (a balance of crico thyroid and thyro artynoid that reaches a certain amount of closure in the folds). At this point, I'd rather just make a sound sample and say a voice sounding like this, approximately how I got there (vowel, twang, pharyngeal width, pharyngeal height, yawniness, sobbiness, etc). People might be able to hear your sound and pick out what is going on mechanically, or they might not.

It's kind of a mess. It's cool you're getting serious singing. But the short answer is it is very complicated to fit the voice into neat boxes, and trying to explain a sound with text is almost impossible. You can kind of help with anatomy, but it's not easy to help people gain awareness and control over their anatomy through text either which for them is a very complex coordination and sensation that must be done.

There are so many elements that things basically get lost in text. Even then if someone were hands on with you, in person, and in real time, it's a more efficient format for teaching and learning. Less misunderstanding. I know there was this thread, where Jeremy was trying to bridge into even a light head voice. Entire forum was trying to help. He's really smart, very diligent, very aware. But nope. The best efforts of text and sound files and everything.

If you get a sound file I'll take a listen. For all I know you're doing something that sounds crazy unfamiliar to me. And even if it was familiar, it would be tough to get you somewhere else, right?

 

 

 

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Okay, so I will definitely try to post a vocal sample of me doing a scale or something tomorrow. As for the looseness of the term "mixed voice," I would like to sound something like Nick Pitera here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz0QrHMyP2k or Sam Tsui here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dSkn489i7I . I will try to post the vocal sample tomorrow :)

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I'm not an expert on that vocal style (or singing in general), but pretty sure it is head voice with good closure. If I were going to pursue that coordination, the best advice i would have would be learning to add gradual amounts of closure to falsetto/headvoice especially with the least sqeeze/push possible. 

It wouldn't be like you were flipping between head and mix, like different registers, but more like head voice in a very controlled way. It would require a lot of coordination and imo you should get a voice teacher to maximize your chances, as it is a very coordinated voice, particuarly that Petera.

If you are a relatively lower voice male voice type, you might not be able to sound as feminine sounding as those two, but with training especially with someone who knows how to train a lighter phonation you'd get a lot closer.

The one thing I'm confident in, pushing the average male speaking voice wouldn't get there. :4: And you should definitely train your chest voice, and your whole voice. But those goals seem pretty lofty from a technical standpoint. I'd definitely choose to get help from professional teachers at some point, as I'm not sure that level of control would be possible to achieve without help from people who really know what they are doing for 99.99 percent the population.

in the meantime, of post your clip and people might be able to help identify something, but it's less likely you'd get all the way to your goals than without additional than others who who aspire to something less precisely coordinated from reading advice even text in general. Even instruction books  whatever. I'd say the more coordinated what it is you're trying to express, how you want sing, the more likely you'll need flat out professional help to get there. 

I don't aspire to that level of control in my voice, I personally aspire to be kind of a punk rock soul singer. The earnestness, roughness, chaos, unpredictability and rawness of a first generation punk rocker, or Iggy Pop, with some of the agility, nuance, range of emotion and feel of like of a soul singer. So in order to achieve my goals I wouldn't need that level of coordination and I probably wouldn't want it, cause it's just too much to be almost a burden. But I have sung enough to suspect what you're going for there is a high bar. You got the right user name, right attitude. By all means train alone, but at the same time, be prepared help if it's not coming.

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    Sounds like you are using fry the whole way.....just using the edge of the folds........that is how some people train fold closure......that is not necessarily used for singing.

 Send sample of you singing...scales really do not show how you sing.......only what you are exercising at that point.

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That's a funny sound. The thing is, it actually sounds like a mix voice to me. Like a mix of vocal fry and something else. Chesty on bottom, falsetto ish on top. Vocal fry often happens when very little air is used. I rarely suggest people just use more air.

To be honest with you, I wouldn't suggest going directly for a 'mix voice' with a sound effect at least as of yet. I'd really suggest focus on getting your head voice stronger, chest stronger.  I don't think until those coordination are a bit more stable any amount of weird sounds will quite get you to this place that you want to go.

To use an analogy, let's say you're east coast America, and you want to cross the Atlantic to Europe. So you jump out in the middle of ocean. And if you explore the ocean you're get connected middle place. But for me ti's more like a bridge. Let's say America was chest. Europe was head. What you'd do is build a strong connection, from each side, of the Atlantic, keeping it stable.

It might work for some people to do some of these sound effects. I know SLS singing does. For me they were useless or harmful. When I started getting real progress, it was starting from a stable point (head, chest) and building flexibility to another point.

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   Nevergiveup..........What you are doing is an exercise for finding closure and a connection between Head and chest........it is ONE part of the puzzle. It is an exercise to remove falsetto from the higher notes. Usually a very light phonation.

   This is one problem that I have found with getting singing tips from the internet.......You usually do not get "Singing" tips.....you get exercises that address ONE part of the singing package without explanations of Why you are doing them and HOW they relate to actually singing.......

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MDEW, do you have any suggestions then on how I could get the "other pieces of the puzzle" to get a full and rich mixed voice? And would you recommend for me to continue doing this exercise?

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  I do not want to sound like a broken record but get a coach or program would be the first suggestion........after that realizing that there is a little more to singing than you might think.

There is Breath pressure/support......Resonance/placement........and Fold Mass/closure.......Mix that with the emotional intent and desired outcome of the song........

Play with your voice and see what it can and will do...... Small Squeaky fry voice all the way to loud and obnoxious........Singing soft and full still requires using the whole voice with the correct amount of breath pressure and resonance to move the entire folds not just the edges. It takes time and almost impossible to describe in writing how to do anything involving Vocal work.

    Try imitating different singers just to see what changes the sound........Elvis compared to Willy nelson is a good start.

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Unfortunately, I do not have the money for any vocal lessons/coaches at the moment. I will continue working on head voice and chest voice individually before mixing them together. I will also look into fold mass/closure as well. I have worked on resonance and placement a little bit and will continue to do so. Thanks for the help!

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Here dude, I improved a song for you or people in your situation:

 

https://app.box.com/s/22oa62b49y8d7y7knulbqzdpi7zdx739

 

For those not of native English here are the lyrics

 

Cue light head voice/falsetto/feminine sounding

Even if this is the only way you can sing higher

It might seem a little bit light or not full

But it has a lot of other things going for it

For you see it can be extended to be more full

 

Enter Mixish/fuller head Kind Voice

But Listen to the sound,

Do You notice it's not quite so light or small 

It can even go quite high (something like an  A#4)

Or if you really insist can go really high (something like a D5)

But seriously you're probably not going to get there.....

 

Enter weird sound effect voices

Focusing on voices that don't seem that stable

Because you might think they are mixing 'something'

Oi Oi Oi Oi Oi  Oi Uwa Uwa Uwa Uwa Uwa Uwa

 

:4:

Seriously though, I make weird noises all the time. There's nothing really wrong with it. But I don't think repetition of weird noises is the key to singing and can actually distract or mislead. It's more about learning to apply stable coordination to a stable singing voice. So it's best to spend most of your time focusing on that stability and flexibly extending new coordinations.

I know I had a run in with SLS material. They were all about repeating sound effects. First of all, there's no guarantee without a teacher you're even doing the sound effect right. Second of all, can you really sing with that sound? Why are you doing it over and over again. I generally don't consider myself to be someone that mindlessly follows. In this particular case, I did. What's the point of endless repetition of something you don't want? Repetition brings permanence to habits. It doesn't bring perfection. Doing the same thing over and over again and thinking you'll get different results is insanity, as they say.  Flexibility, adaptability, not mindless repetition. Whenever you try an exercise, you shouldn't be looking to just repeat it, so much as improve and get closer to your goals. Ideally it will be tangible.

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Thank you KillerKu!! I read over the lyrics and what you said, and it just made me more sure of pursuing and practicing singing. Thanks for all the info! The link said the file had been removed, but if you could get it to work somehow I'd love to listen to it rather than just the lyrics :bouncy: 

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Thank you KillerKu!! I read over the lyrics and what you said, and it just made me more sure of pursuing and practicing singing. Thanks for all the info! The link said the file had been removed, but if you could get it to work somehow I'd love to listen to it rather than just the lyrics :bouncy: 

That's weird man, check it again. Box has this thing called 'share.' You click it and give a link. I've this happened before.

It was acapella. I'm sure there is no copyright infringement. It seems almost impossible for it to get removed.  

https://app.box.com/s/22oa62b49y8d7y7knulbqzdpi7zdx739

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I get that odd fry sound too when i direct the sound into my nose. I don't know how to get rid of it other than using a different method to get resonance but i have problems with my upper range anyways so i wouldn't dare give you advice - only that i feel your pain :(

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After 9 month struggling with same problem now here's the answer...

Whenever your vocal folds are coming together and you have a good cord closure to stay connected between registers "I'm not talking about FALSETTO" (which means there is gap between your cords) and you try to sing in mix voice, also you want to have a nice and soft dynamic (not so high at volume) your vocal folds tend to stay connected also working more toughly to hold the air pressure coming from your diaphragm (less air=less dynamic) , but then suddenly you'll hear that vocal fry added to your voice!!!

So the problem is NOT ENOUGH STRENGTH with your vocal folds to hold the air flow and the result is irregular vibration of vocal folds that cause the short gap between them although it feels you're still connect at voice but there is vocal fry added to your sound

Remember this is one of red flags for daily exercise that means your vocal folds are going to feel weaker and tired, this also can be defined as voice fatigue.

When this happens just stop for a sec, drink some water and start doing some warm up nice and gentle again (i suggest you stop even singing any song for 2-3 moths or more and just do a daily warm up like humming with closed mouth and play with pitch and dynamic all the way through your range, when you feel that fry is occurring again just add some volume and let your voice sound smooth then decrease your dynamic to it's limit again & again & again) , don't push your chest/head too hard to feel that connection between your vocal cords, it works at start but after a while just makes everything worse. unsimilar to everything vocal training is like "No pain, then gain" so never strain your voice

If you are a smoker your training cycle goes much longer than usual for achieving the necessary stamina of your vocal folds, just quit smoking, because daily smoke causes acid reflux at nights which inflames the vocal tract, also it makes your vocal folds feel dried out and irritates your nasal cavity causing post nasal drip, specially at morning when you feel your voice sound heavier and darker. (for those who decide quit smoking, it takes like 3-4 month for your body to match its organs with new situations, during this period you'll feel more mucus and phelgm lumping at your throat but then everything starts to be the same as you were before).

Hope this helps.

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