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rainbow - kill the king

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darkclaw3000
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need comments n critics on me performing this song..

this is the 3rd song in the setlist. after helloween - a tale that wasn't right. the links in another thread.

anyway tell me what you guys think abt my technique, support or tone or how i deliver it..

thank you!!!

http://www.box.net/shared/zgz02xvqq4

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Nice rasp. It sounded like crying timbre on the higher notes, an excellent way to stay in the right config for those notes. This must be the week to pay tribute to Dio. Very well, then. I noticed you sing the lower parts as I do, somewhat of a dropped jaw and a fair amount of twang. It sounds good live. That must have been exciting. In this recording, the vocal mic should have a little more amp. It probably sounded okay in the club. There were a few times I was straining to hear you and it wasn't your fault. And no doubt, if this was recorded with a minicam or phone or digital camera, we're lucky to hear anything at all. And there's probably not much you can do about it. I just wanted to hear more of your voice. I mean, not an over-prominence of the voice, just a better balance between it and the instruments.

The band did a pretty good job, too. If one listens to the original recording by Rainbow, your band pretty well nailed it, especially by playing it as their own. I couldn't really hear any pitch issues, at least in this recording. As for mode for higher notes, one could be hard pressed to say how Dio actually sang it because studio albums get all kinds of tweaking to come out in the finished product. In fact, I have read interviews with bands that recorded a song and so many parts were re-done and patched together that they had to listen to the finished product to figure out how they would play the song, live. Nor was that the case, here. Back then, most bands recorded "live" in the studio. That is, as often as possible, the whole band was playing together, though mic'd separately. And all the studio did was double a track or two, here and there, maybe add some guitar fills. And Rainbow were live band musicians, rather than studio musicians who could "phone it in", so to speak.

So, anything I could say about style of delivery, tone or intonation would be nothing more than comparison against the original singer, which is not fair to you or Dio. If Dio were here, he would not tell you how to sing it. You're the singer, sing it your way. You hit the notes, live, with a loud band and still came through. To me, that's the goal. Not just producing a pretty, technically accurate recording. A lot of the finer effects we discuss here are best appreciated in a recording environment, or even in an acoustic arrangement. And a lot of them won't be noticable in a live gig in a smoky club with 200 to 400 watt Marshall stack amps, a gorilla on the drums, and Ritchie Blackmore 2.0 on the guitar.

Or was that karoake? It sounded like a live band, playing their own version of the song from the album.

Anyway, you were on pitch and lasted through the song. I call that a success.

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wow thx ronws. thats a very very informative comment! i like it alot.

about that crying timbre, i think i tend to do that alot, maybe even involuntary? i think i do another clearer version of this song to better critic my singing.

yeah it was recorded by a phone. lack of proper recording equipment at that time haha.

thx for the comment about the band! it wasn't my band though. they needed help on vocals and asked me.

that wasn't karoake at all. i think you can hear some feedback going on in there. came from the monitors.

im still trying to work on how to get that sound Dio has. even tho on the higher notes, his voice still sound so 'thick'. EQ?

if only i can listen to his raw vocals singing that song..

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In the magic moments thread I posted this vid.

Rainbow in the Dark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sxc25uWqI8

The tune is dropped by 1/2 or even 1 whole step. Perhaps to give the voice a rest.

At the same concert is this song.

Heaven and Hell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubx-7zXkwZM

This one is in the original key, as far as I can tell. So, his voice was still good. And who knows? Maybe the live versions are the original key and the studio albums have a changed key.

Anyway, I thought he might have been using crying timbre but, when I sing it, I am using full voice with twang. And I think he gets his distortion with twang rattle, but the rattle is up near the soft palate. Though I can do some distortion, my mic doesn't pick it up very well.

Point being, even though I couldn't see the performance, if it had been a video capture, I could hear what you were doing. And you were selling "Kill the King" to the audience. With the same sense of urgency and commitment as the original recording. You are a rock singer, whether any one else comes up with a critique or pointer, or not. In fact, you could probably review any famous rock singer and find something wrong with them, if they posted here. Nothing is ever "perfect" and I frankly grow tired of the picayune detailing and micro-managment of each and every tone and note and each and every breath. I value the ethic of James Lugo. STFU and sing, damn it! And you did. Never let anyone, here or anywhere else take that away from you. I would dare anyone who dares to post a live peformance in front of a crowd in whatever venue with its' problematic acoustics to do as well as you did. At least, from what I can hear.

Most importantly, you did it your way. Having seen a number of interviews with Dio, I have no doubt that he would agree that you performed the song correctly, because you performed it your way. It's not that you are perfect. No one is. But you did what the singer is supposed to do. Deliver the song and have the audience connect with it, and you did.

And, I should add, per your own words, you were simplying filling in vocals for the band. Not shabby at all. It was a stand and deliver performance. We talk alot about minutae and come up with a thousand little details that we're supposed to concentrate on, all at once. I say, STFU and get up there and sing. And you did.

So, a resounding "Bravo!" from me. You do, in fact, rock. I liked the vibrato you had going. It's tighter than Dio's vibrato. Not necessarily better, just unique.

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In the magic moments thread I posted this vid.

Rainbow in the Dark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sxc25uWqI8

The tune is dropped by 1/2 or even 1 whole step. Perhaps to give the voice a rest.

At the same concert is this song.

Heaven and Hell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubx-7zXkwZM

This one is in the original key, as far as I can tell. So, his voice was still good. And who knows? Maybe the live versions are the original key and the studio albums have a changed key.

Anyway, I thought he might have been using crying timbre but, when I sing it, I am using full voice with twang. And I think he gets his distortion with twang rattle, but the rattle is up near the soft palate. Though I can do some distortion, my mic doesn't pick it up very well.

Point being, even though I couldn't see the performance, if it had been a video capture, I could hear what you were doing. And you were selling "Kill the King" to the audience. With the same sense of urgency and commitment as the original recording. You are a rock singer, whether any one else comes up with a critique or pointer, or not. In fact, you could probably review any famous rock singer and find something wrong with them, if they posted here. Nothing is ever "perfect" and I frankly grow tired of the picayune detailing and micro-managment of each and every tone and note and each and every breath. I value the ethic of James Lugo. STFU and sing, damn it! And you did. Never let anyone, here or anywhere else take that away from you. I would dare anyone who dares to post a live peformance in front of a crowd in whatever venue with its' problematic acoustics to do as well as you did. At least, from what I can hear.

Most importantly, you did it your way. Having seen a number of interviews with Dio, I have no doubt that he would agree that you performed the song correctly, because you performed it your way. It's not that you are perfect. No one is. But you did what the singer is supposed to do. Deliver the song and have the audience connect with it, and you did.

And, I should add, per your own words, you were simplying filling in vocals for the band. Not shabby at all. It was a stand and deliver performance. We talk alot about minutae and come up with a thousand little details that we're supposed to concentrate on, all at once. I say, STFU and get up there and sing. And you did.

So, a resounding "Bravo!" from me. You do, in fact, rock. I liked the vibrato you had going. It's tighter than Dio's vibrato. Not necessarily better, just unique.

again, thank you ronws. thank you thank you so much for the kind comments.

i will definitely go with and remember what James Lugo said. STFU AND SING.

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Something else I wanted to elaborate on.

I linked in two performances from Dio at Waacken in 2004. (Side note, one of the best bassists in the world, ,Rudy Sarzo, was with him.) "Rainbow in the Dark" sounded as if it were 1/2 to 1 whole step down from the album version. And "Heaven and Hell" sounded as if it were in the same key as the album version. Which makes me wonder if it's not the other way around for a lot of songs. Especially from bands that start out performing live. Maybe the live versions are the original key and the album sometimes involve playing 1/2 to 1 whole step up, per a recording producer. In any case, though, considerations have to be made for live venues. As well as recording studios and particular rooms. And then we have guitar mags that will figure out how a song is played and just assume that a song is drop tuned, thinking that no one purposely composes in Eb.

Well, some people do compose in a certain key. Steven Tyler plays piano and he would often compose in the key of F or Dm because of how the black keys are in that key. And then, for whatever reason, the album version may sound like F# and then someone comes along later and says, well, it's 1/2 dropped from F#. In the end, who cares, as long as you can do the song and have people like it?

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Something else I wanted to elaborate on.

I linked in two performances from Dio at Waacken in 2004. (Side note, one of the best bassists in the world, ,Rudy Sarzo, was with him.) "Rainbow in the Dark" sounded as if it were 1/2 to 1 whole step down from the album version. And "Heaven and Hell" sounded as if it were in the same key as the album version. Which makes me wonder if it's not the other way around for a lot of songs. Especially from bands that start out performing live. Maybe the live versions are the original key and the album sometimes involve playing 1/2 to 1 whole step up, per a recording producer. In any case, though, considerations have to be made for live venues. As well as recording studios and particular rooms. And then we have guitar mags that will figure out how a song is played and just assume that a song is drop tuned, thinking that no one purposely composes in Eb.

Well, some people do compose in a certain key. Steven Tyler plays piano and he would often compose in the key of F or Dm because of how the black keys are in that key. And then, for whatever reason, the album version may sound like F# and then someone comes along later and says, well, it's 1/2 dropped from F#. In the end, who cares, as long as you can do the song and have people like it?

i think the original version is in the albums and the drop key versions during live are played so that the singer won't easily burn out.. maybe im wrong

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