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Is Head Voice Pretty Much Full Voice ?

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The answer to this question is simple... Who cares... Our voices are capable of million/billion diffrent sounds over 4 registers now we are gonna divide them into fullvoice and not fullvoice. 1. Does

Sure,... but presuming that you want it to sound belty and full in the "head voice", take lessons... learn how the voice really works and train to work out the muscles and coordination to do what it i

This is a stylistic choice. Stay with me now......I'm saying you won't be regarding it as something you go into or shift into down the road a few years from now. In fact, as the years go on, on some v

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My first question is: is head voice with a connection to chest voice full voice?

No. Presuming that you are defining "connection" to mean, a head voice note that sounds like chest voice... the answer would be no. The only way you can make your head voice sound like your chest voice is with proper musculature strengthening, coordination, a knowledge of formants and singing vowels and lots of practice... as well as good training techniques that actually walk you through how to do it. But simply connecting chest to head does not constitute a connection.

 meaning you switch into head voice so seamlessly that it creates an auditory illusion to the listener that you are still in chest voice?

You can create the auditory illusion you are referring to with BOTH, head voice dominant musculature as well as chest voice dominant musculature. This would be the difference between a more M2 dominant phonation or a M1 dominance phonation, which refers to the closed quotient of your vocal folds, or the amount of time your vocal folds remain closed, vs open in the vibration cycle... which in turn is, influenced by what musculature and coordination you have trained to deploy for a given artistic color. Simply "switching" into your head voice seamlessly does NOT guarantee that  you will achieve the illusion of one voice... NO WAY. You have to build strength through training for that.  If your not training the right techniques, it may never happen for you.

 My second question: what is the difference between singing in a connected head voice and singing in a mix voice?

Not much really, it could be the same thing, depending on what you are doing in your "connected" head voice. Note that a connected head voice, would also be a mixed voice at certain notes in your range...  

 I used to think that head voice was just a light disconnected sound for effect or for female opera singers. My third question: do male opera singers use mixed voice or head voice?

It is actually difficult to answer this question because above and beyond the question I/we think you are actually tying to ask, there is a much bigger problem sitting in the way that needs to be addressed before we can address your intended question and that simply is.. you are totally confused about vocal registers. You don't really know what "head voice", "mixed voice", "chest voice" REALLY mean... and until you understand what they REALLY are... or what they REALLY are not... you will remain confused for a long, long time. 

The fact that you have a voice teacher and you are still confused about voice registers and what they mean and actually are is a major red flag. If you have been training with this person for over 90 days... at the most and still are confused about "head voice" vs "mixed voice"... find the door and never go back. That is just the tough love honest answer... this is a mess... 

You need training that explains all this to you, so at least you know what the language is and what these things really mean. You need to remove the erroneous understandings of what these terms mean, that I suspect are also being further confused by your voice teacher who apparently has not helped you in sorting out this confusion... ( ... thats why you are here on the forum).

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Lunte, I actually kind of knew the answers to these questions before I posted this topic. I pretty much just wanted to see some other singers perspectives on this whole thing because everyone has different view points. I have known what chest voice and head voice are for years, and like in the video you posted have always thought that mix wasn't a separate voice from chest or head, it is merely just a description of when the resonance is balanced out and connected, meaning your voice doesn't just flip into a lighter function above chest all of a sudden.

But I'm not making this up, I pretty much knew the answer to these questions before the post I just wanted to see other peoples perspectives on this: my teacher's perspective....and that is that she classifies a certain coordination of "head voice" being a different approach than "mix voice". Like if you listen to opera, that isn't all head voice, some of that is middle voice which isn't chest but isn't head in my teacher's terms. She just calls the overall approach or technique "head voice" as opposed to "mix voice" approach.

For head voice, you would start in chest and begin adding head sensations earlier in the scale, this involves a lower larynx and has that warm ringing tone to it such as in opera. For mix, you would start in chest and pull chest up where "head voice" approach would already be adding head sensations, and THEN begin adding head sensations a little later in the scale than the "head voice" approach. This would involve a more speech-like than lower operatic larynx.

But here is how I would like to tell you what I think about this personally, and my teacher probably sees it this way when it comes down to it, she just uses these terms to help a singer determine what style they are going for or if they are going for a more chest or head dominant, classical/theatrical or more contemporary sound. 

But anyway here how I see it. It is all the same voice or "mix" (but like you said it isn't a secret third register just a description of a blended sound), these are just different ways of APPROACHING your voice or "mix" so that when you begin training you can go for the certain sound or style you are going for.

It is all a "mix" i guess you could say because (as my teacher classifies them) "head voice" approach and "mix" voice approach would involve a blended (of resonance) sound that doesn't just flip into falsetto or a disconnected head voice (like how most singers demonstrate that hoooo hooty sound. This sounds very much like an owl and this is how I found my head voice). But as my teacher puts it, when that ooooo light disconnected voice has a seamless connection to chest voice it is a full voice sound. She might say this is a connected head voice. Many would call this a mixed voice. 

Some may call this a head-mix but it is really just a more "head dominant" sound. But this is still a "mix". I believe they are both the same "mix" just different way to shape the vowels or to sing with a more head dominant or chest dominant sound. But do get this though. The "head voice" approach involves neutral vowels, meaning you keep the same "uh" vowel in the back of your relaxed (and sometimes low-larynx operatic) open throat the entire time, but just change the sound of the vowels with your lips and tung but in your throat you keep a neutral vowel. You don't open your mouth wider to change the vowel it is all one same vowel the entire time in the huge space in your open throat. This gives a more ring warm operatic sound.

For the "mix" or belt (which is an add on to mix) as my teacher describes it, you focus more on eh and ah (as on hat) vowels and you open the space in your mouth and pretty much this is more speech like to change the vowels as opposed to keeping a neutral vowel the entire time in that open space in the back of your throat, it is like a traffic cone.

For head voice, the bottom of the cone starts in the back of your throat and goes out the mouth. You could sing with your mouth almost closed and still get an open full sound. For mix and belt the bottom of the traffic cone starts at the front of your mouth and tapers to the back of your throat (the top of the cone). This would involve dropping the jaw more and opening the mouth wider and this is more speech like.

You see, it is all the same "mix" (the blended resonance sensations /coordination), but you can shape the vowels differently and bridge later or earlier, and get a more head dominant or chest dominant sound, and a more operatic or contemporary at that. It is all your one blended singing voice you can just adjust the sound and tone a little differently. 

This may be a lot but I like the way she terms the different approaches to  train  a certain sound or style and if I were a teacher I would probably describe things this way as well but at the same time, let my student know it is all the same "mix" just different approaches or ways to train to achieve a certain sound. If anyone disagrees with any of this, agrees and wants to comment go for it. I'm always willing to learn and understand the voice a little better and with a broader and larger perspective.

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The answer to this question is simple...

Who cares... Our voices are capable of million/billion diffrent sounds over 4 registers now we are gonna divide them into fullvoice and not fullvoice.

1. Does it sound full and is to your satisfaction?

if yes keep doing it.

2. Do you like the sound?

if yes keep doing it

3. It doesnt sound full but still sounds awesome

keep doing it.

4. Full is relative, do we talk about a register or a soundcolor or vocalweight? In the end even that does not matter, what matters is you get the correct training for the intended results.

 

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The answer to this question is simple...

Who cares... Our voices are capable of million/billion diffrent sounds over 4 registers now we are gonna divide them into fullvoice and not fullvoice.

1. Does it sound full and is to your satisfaction?

if yes keep doing it.

2. Do you like the sound?

if yes keep doing it

3. It doesnt sound full but still sounds awesome

keep doing it.

4. Full is relative, do we talk about a register or a soundcolor or vocalweight? In the end even that does not matter, what matters is you get the correct training for the intended results.

 

Sure,... but presuming that you want it to sound belty and full in the "head voice", take lessons... learn how the voice really works and train to work out the muscles and coordination to do what it is that we are presuming that you want to do... which is the same thing that all of us want to do 90% of the time... make the top notes sound big, full, "boomy".

You have to train the voice... the way your voice works when your speaking or even singing (shouting at high notes with no training), will not get you what you are really going for... it can ONLY happen for most people, with understanding and training

 

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Sure,... but presuming that you want it to sound belty and full in the "head voice", take lessons... learn how the voice really works and train to work out the muscles and coordination to do what it is that we are presuming that you want to do... which is the same thing that all of us want to do 90% of the time... make the top notes sound big, full, "boomy".

You have to train the voice... the way your voice works when your speaking or even singing (shouting at high notes with no training), will not get you what you are really going for... it can ONLY happen for most people, with understanding and training

 

 

Ofc :) thats kindo My point by point 4. Is Geoff Tate fullvoice? Is he as full as dio? Is dio as full as Ray Charles? Etc etc. The debated are so many times about whats full or not or what is m1 or what is m2 blabla. Training and training content usually gets secondary for some reason. 

Thats why i made that point, we are gonna train our entire voice regardless. Debating about what is what is pointless, take your program for example it's failsafe. Cause it works from light to heavy, adding more mass as the student becomes stronger, more advanced vowelmods and choices and so on.

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Hey Phil,

I think you and are gonna buddies.  We seem to think alike.  Welcome.

Chiaro, as someone who doesn't look as registers, but rather shifts in resonance and adduction levels, there are no limits to the way you can "play your voice" as far as light to heavy.....

None!  You are only limited by your mind.

 The only thing I will tell you from personal experience is some configurations, especially chest or T/A heavy take a lot out of you both physically (they involve the entire body) as well as mentally.

You say you need to determine what kind of voice to go for before you begin training?  Outside of Classical, I'm curious why you say that....

Can you explain?

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Hey Phil,

I think you and are gonna buddies.  We seem to think alike.  Welcome.

Chiaro, as someone who doesn't look as registers, but rather shifts in resonance and adduction levels, there are no limits to the way you can "play your voice" as far as light to heavy.....

None!  You are only limited by your mind.

 The only thing I will tell you from personal experience is some configurations, especially chest or T/A heavy take a lot out of you both physically (they involve the entire body) as well as mentally.

You say you need to determine what kind of voice to go for before you begin training?  Outside of Classical, I'm curious why you say that....

Can you explain?

When I said that, I just meant that as to explain how my teacher approaches different methods to attain certain sounds because it got brought up in this topic. Before you begin training, If you already know what sound you are going for, then you can work on bridging earlier to get a more head-dominant sound, or later for a more chest-dominant sound. I never meant you NEED to determine what kind of sound you are going for before you begin. You may figure this out somewhere down the road after you started training.

Me personally, I am not going for any specific type of sound, I am looking to be able to do pretty much everything really. If I want a more head-dominant sound and the next minute in even  the same song even I want to belt a chestier sound, and even hit some operatic sounding notes the next minute, I can. "There are no limits to the way you can play your voice as far as light to heavy". I like that. That is what I am going for. To be able to do head and chest-like sounds without being limited to just one alone.

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When I said that, I just meant that as to explain how my teacher approaches different methods to attain certain sounds because it got brought up in this topic. Before you begin training, If you already know what sound you are going for, then you can work on bridging earlier to get a more head-dominant sound, or later for a more chest-dominant sound. I never meant you NEED to determine what kind of sound you are going for before you begin. You may figure this out somewhere down the road after you started training.

Me personally, I am not going for any specific type of sound, I am looking to be able to do pretty much everything really. If I want a more head-dominant sound and the next minute in even  the same song even I want to belt a chestier sound, and even hit some operatic sounding notes the next minute, I can. "There are no limits to the way you can play your voice as far as light to heavy". I like that. That is what I am going for. To be able to do head and chest-like sounds without being limited to just one alone.

If you are really after being able to go light to heavy, you have to learn (advanced stuff, ask your teacher) how to lean into the folds to swell the volume and resonance as well as to let off the folds, basically to swell from soft to loud and loud to soft on a single pitch on any note in your range. It can only occur with complete control of breath pressure and near flawless support. 

Daniel Formica really knows how to do this one.  It is one of the most difficult exercises and some simply cannot do it.

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If you are really after being able to go light to heavy, you have to learn (advanced stuff, ask your teacher) how to lean into the folds to swell the volume and resonance as well as to let off the folds, basically to swell from soft to loud and loud to soft on a single pitch on any note in your range. It can only occur with complete control of breath pressure and near flawless support. 

Daniel Formica really knows how to do this one.  It is one of the most difficult exercises and some simply cannot do it.

When I said go from light to heavy, I didn't mean on the same note the exact second after the previous tone such as how Freddie Mercury may do, I meant as far as verse to chorus and second verse go, meaning one verse may be a lighter or more head-dominant sound and the chorus following that verse a more chest dominant sound in the same song. If it were really that close together I meant maybe belt a couple-grit sounding notes then go back to a non-belt sound, or maybe be in a contemporary sound and then come down and hit a couple operatic-sounding notes as far as tone-quality goes, and then most of the song just a contemporary sound. Maybe one song on an album I might want to sing with an operatic tone and another song not. But I actually am not too sure exactly what you meant their but I believe I wasn't talking about swelling. That would be pretty cool though....

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If you are really after being able to go light to heavy, you have to learn (advanced stuff, ask your teacher) how to lean into the folds to swell the volume and resonance as well as to let off the folds, basically to swell from soft to loud and loud to soft on a single pitch on any note in your range. It can only occur with complete control of breath pressure and near flawless support. 

Daniel Formica really knows how to do this one.  It is one of the most difficult exercises and some simply cannot do it.

Daniel blew my mind when demonstrating this crescendo exercise. :) I envy anyone who can swell a note from falsetto to chest and back down, to me that's a sign you've really gotten things worked out technique wise. Be right back in fifteen years.. ;) 

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Daniel blew my mind when demonstrating this crescendo exercise. :) I envy anyone who can swell a note from falsetto to chest and back down, to me that's a sign you've really gotten things worked out technique wise. Be right back in fifteen years.. ;) 

This is precisely what the Messa di Voice Onset in the "4Pillars" system teaches you to do.  Yes, it is a very powerful technique that builds great coordination of the voice, namely... respiration with musculature... and it takes a LOT of practice. I demonstrate it in new videos on the program and provide detailed training routines to follow to make sure your doing it properly in "4Pillars".

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When I said go from light to heavy, I didn't mean on the same note the exact second after the previous tone such as how Freddie Mercury may do, I meant as far as verse to chorus and second verse go, meaning one verse may be a lighter or more head-dominant sound and the chorus following that verse a more chest dominant sound in the same song. If it were really that close together I meant maybe belt a couple-grit sounding notes then go back to a non-belt sound, or maybe be in a contemporary sound and then come down and hit a couple operatic-sounding notes as far as tone-quality goes, and then most of the song just a contemporary sound. Maybe one song on an album I might want to sing with an operatic tone and another song not. But I actually am not too sure exactly what you meant their but I believe I wasn't talking about swelling. That would be pretty cool though....

Yes, I know what you mean, but what I wrote will help get you to that capability.  

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isnt it just easier and just more understandable to differentiate the terms like this....

 

Head voice - is a resonance. Whe in head voice and the glottis is open its falssetto, and when there is adduction its full voice...

So in other words, Head Voice is a "place" where the the shades of voice is produced from windy open glottis falsetto up to twangy compressed full voice...and everything in between...

I think the problem starts using terms "head voice" and "falsetto" synonimously, which they are NOT...at least not in my opinion...

 

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In time you will end up regarding the voice as one register because you will have gained the coordination and gained a lot of experience (with your own voice) in shifting resonance and leaning in on and off of the vocal folds. This, and your breath management will make you regard the voice as one connected voice from top to bottom.

 

 

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This is a stylistic choice.

Stay with me now......I'm saying you won't be regarding it as something you go into or shift into down the road a few years from now.

In fact, as the years go on, on some voices, depending on how you trained, the breathy falsetto will actually become more difficult to produce because a light, but accurate adduction (on any note, not just high notes) will likely have been developed.

If you want an example of a singer with a strong, seemless sound from top to bottom, check out early Steve Walsh from Kansas. Listen to him and you will hear some great tone (i.m.o.).  His chest and head tones are amazing!  They are so full of ring and resonance!

Listen to the entire live album "Two for the show."  These are some really challenging vocals.

 

 

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Holy shit, are we still debating this ? Honestly guys this is nonsense it's terminology wank coupled with mindless thinking. Just listen to Rob he's right, just let this be solved cause there is no definitive answer...

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Post an "live" video of a song that you desire to sing, one that is a work in progress, meaning you aren't there yet in terms of ability?

Are you asking me or YouCanSingAnything? Do you mean a recording of me or whoever singing or post a video of a song that is live (if you were talking about me or anyone else who has posted on this thread)?

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Tristen,  

I wanted a get a sense of a song you find particularly challenging.

Perhaps the notes are right at the extremes of your range   or    the song stays along a certain set of passaggio notes   or

there are wide intervals....

A song where you know deep in your gut you cannot perform with any decent level of quality or consistency (yet.)

ADDENDUM:

To me, if a song is a challenge you have to really know why...because you will find if you fix the issue, you've enabled more songs than just that one that was giving you all the trouble.

 

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