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Can I Develop These Notes?

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As I stated in my other post, I've found my head voice, or some kind of voice that makes me sing higher and with more power than I was able to do before. However, after G#4, I hit a sort of wall. I can "sing" up to a C5, but it sounds weak at best and not tonally good at all. I can sing maybe up to an A#4 with some control when doing exercises, but that does not translate into songs at all. The best I can manage to do in a song is A4, but it is not a reliable note at all, and is pretty much hit or miss. What I'm trying to ask, is if I can even touch these notes, does that mean that I can develop them enough to make them practical parts of my range? I really want to be able to sing up to at least tenor high C and make it sound good. 

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perhaps you are related to Dorian Grey (Gray)??

If it's connected, that's a good start. As for your lowest and highest notes, there's a pretty decent amount of members in this forum with that range Hey I don't want to derail your topic but I

I"m a natural Baritone. I used to hit a wall at F4. Then it went up one note at a time. I can easily sing E5 connected now, and up to a B5 with a solid head voice. It merely takes time a training prop

A4 is just a pitch.

You have to pay attention to the vowel you are singing, as well as the pitch, and the pitch of the notes and vowels that precede it and succeed it. Then there is the timbre, brightness, tempo, etc. etc.

If you break it down into the contexts in which you are "singing A4", some consistency should become apparent. You will be able to identify, and have confidence in, the contexts where you can sing that A4, and investigate what it is about the other contexts that make it difficult

Then it is a question of getting the right balance of investigation and practice that suits your learning pattern.

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20 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

I"m a natural Baritone. I used to hit a wall at F4. Then it went up one note at a time. I can easily sing E5 connected now, and up to a B5 with a solid head voice. It merely takes time a training properly.

draven who classified you as a baritone..? just curious and did you study classical music and thats why you were classified? also how long into your singing(years) were you classified. how long have you been singing?

 

 

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My first teacher classified me, over 20 years ago. I was most comfortable E2 to A3. I pushed my voice for years to hit E4, since I didn't know any better. It wasn't until about seven years ago when I finally learned to pull chest up to G4 with very little effort. I didn't learn to properly bridge and connect until I forced myself to pull chest up to B4. I simply never had a teacher tell me to do so, or how. I don't recommend it either. I learned how very quickly when I started teaching singing two years ago, when I dove very deep into singing research. After I started learning singing the head voice with twang rather than push/pull, my voice opened up a whole lot. I can belt up to a G#5 if I want to now, but don't like putting that much pressure on my voice for more than a few seconds. I accidentally found out that I can do it for fifteen minutes when teaching a Soprano how to sing a specific song. I pulled a muscle after fifteen minutes, that took me three months to recover from. Now I rarely pull chest above D5, and usually bridge as early as G4. I'm trying to develop my head voice lower than that now.. 

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3 hours ago, Danielformica said:

20 years ago wow you look young. Are you in your 40s like myself? We're you classified before puberty? I've never heard anyone pull chest to D5 are you positive it's chest or is it mixed voice ?

You beat me to it, Daniel.  I had similar questions and I am so old, that rock music used to be us apes slapping sticks on stones. Get it? "Rock" music? I am too funny, I know.

I never had a voice classification although, a few years ago, when I was consulting a classical coach, he mentioned I had qualities of a light tenor. Which was not an official description. Really, it was just an idea of where my voice centers, but it is not a limitation of range. And I have had to learn technique to sing the upper 4th and 5th octaves, just like anyone else. I could call myself a light tenor all day but it would not really mean anything unless I was cast in an opera as a light tenor.

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According to some who are writing stories for The Silent Still, I'm about 220 years young. But that's just ridiculous. Of course I'm much older than that. I wasn't classified until I was about 19.

Maybe I'm belting, maybe it's the mysterious mixed resonance. I'm definitely relaxed between E4 and C5, which I used to push VERY hard for. D5 and even E5 are easy on a good day. I know I don't feel like I'm bridging until D5, and trying to sing twang in head voice currently feels impossible under B4 (easy to do above that). However, I also know I can't sing too softly above G4, or I lose control too.

I've never picked apart my own voice in these ways. I mainly just went on feeling. At the moment, I can tell what my students are doing more easily than I can tell for myself. Like I said, it's just easy for me now. I'm still trying to define my own placements, especially now that I'm going through TFPOS.

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44 minutes ago, JonJon said:

perhaps you are related to Dorian Grey (Gray)??

I usually tell people that about myself having a Dorian Gray portrait in my attic, and the pop culture reference is lost, in order to explain how I am older than I look.

For the young'ns, there was a movie based on the Dorian Gray legend, played by Faye Dunaway in the mid-70's when she was about 22 years old. In it, she plays an actress who is actually in her late 70's but a magic picture hidden in the attic takes on the wrinkles and infirmities of old age while she continues to look 22 and get young leading - lady roles.

My other explanation for looking younger than I am is that I drink Diet Coke and the BHT and other preservatives keep me looking young, not unlike the effect in the movie, "Death Becomes Her."

But the real secret to getting up everyday is coffee, ibuprofen, neoprene ankle brace, sometimes knee brace.

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On 4/19/2016 at 9:44 PM, muffinhead said:

As I stated in my other post, I've found my head voice, or some kind of voice that makes me sing higher and with more power than I was able to do before. However, after G#4, I hit a sort of wall. I can "sing" up to a C5, but it sounds weak at best and not tonally good at all. I can sing maybe up to an A#4 with some control when doing exercises, but that does not translate into songs at all. The best I can manage to do in a song is A4, but it is not a reliable note at all, and is pretty much hit or miss. What I'm trying to ask, is if I can even touch these notes, does that mean that I can develop them enough to make them practical parts of my range? I really want to be able to sing up to at least tenor high C and make it sound good. 

Muffin : "The best I can manage to do in a song is A4, but it is not a reliable note at all, and is pretty much hit or miss."

You are absolutelly correct...this is a bitch of a note to hit powerfully...but you can get it.

I'm here to say to you A4 is a mother, depending on the song and your intention.

I go back to that Toto tune "Africa" for a perfect example of a rough spot in a song.

I call the notes between F4 and B4 my tug of war notes because both TA and CT musculatures are fighting for control.  You must understand this (can be) a very tricky note to execute consistently well without (as Ron said) training.  If you want to go strong on a note like this it needs to be executed very accurately.  So much has to be there, support, air flow, the correct throat shape (vowel) consistent adduction and most of all...confidence.  The note also requires energy!

So now you know it's a bitch.  Question is...What are you going to do about it? all of them basically from F4 to B4 are notes to work..but don't forget the runway notes below them.

 

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13 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

Muffin : "The best I can manage to do in a song is A4, but it is not a reliable note at all, and is pretty much hit or miss."

You are absolutelly correct...this is a bitch of a note to hit powerfully...but you can get it.

I'm here to say to you A4 is a mother, depending on the song and your intention.

I go back to that Toto tune "Africa" for a perfect example of a rough spot in a song.

I call the notes between F4 and B4 my tug of war notes because both TA and CT musculatures are fighting for control.  You must understand this (can be) a very tricky note to execute consistently well without (as Ron said) training.  If you want to go strong on a note like this it needs to be executed very accurately.  So much has to be there, support, air flow, the correct throat shape (vowel) consistent adduction and most of all...confidence.  The note also requires energy!

So now you know it's a bitch.  Question is...What are you going to do about it? all of them basically from F4 to B4 are notes to work..but don't forget the runway notes below them.

 

weird huh. I figure like around F#4- G#4 give or take a note is a real sweet spot for me. Its just high enough to make me work for it a little but not to where im straining or anything.

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In a song?  It all depends what you want it to sound like, depends on the song, depends on the notes around it...depends, depends, depends....LOL!!

Here is G#4, but it's way you need to hit those notes. There's no room for error.  If you don't get that vowel just right, you are not going to do too well on a song like this.  Watch as the song becomes progressively more difficult for him, and he is a great singer.

 

 

 

 

 

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On April 19, 2016 at 6:44 PM, muffinhead said:

As I stated in my other post, I've found my head voice, or some kind of voice that makes me sing higher and with more power than I was able to do before. However, after G#4, I hit a sort of wall. I can "sing" up to a C5, but it sounds weak at best and not tonally good at all. I can sing maybe up to an A#4 with some control when doing exercises, but that does not translate into songs at all. The best I can manage to do in a song is A4, but it is not a reliable note at all, and is pretty much hit or miss. What I'm trying to ask, is if I can even touch these notes, does that mean that I can develop them enough to make them practical parts of my range? I really want to be able to sing up to at least tenor high C and make it sound good. 

Yes. Find a great program and a teacher to guide you and start training. It won't happen by watching YouTube videos or surfing this forum for "free secret tips". Even if the "free secret tip" was brilliantly explained and made total sense to you, which is typically nearly impossible when explaining most things related to vocal technique training... it still wouldn't mean anything, if your not prepared to practice. So, your back to the first point,... get a good teacher and a great program and start training. That is the only way you can experience lasting changes... and singing songs as well. But ONLY singing songs, with no technique training or understanding of the voice simply will not work for 90% of the population. 

It is fun to debate about it, read about it, makes posts about it, be a part of a  community about it... all that is great and has value, but if you do not train, it will never happen for 9 out of 10 people. Don't kid yourself. Great singing skills just don't come any other way.

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Update #2: What I found before actually wasn't my head voice; I think it was belting up to an A#4 using chest voice. I discovered my actual head voice yesterday, and I can do C5 no problem. In fact, I can go beyond it, basically up to an A5, which I don't know whether it is technically head voice or not, but it sounds stronger than falsetto. And the best part is, these pitches are easy. I have no tension in my throat whatsoever, and I can make them pretty loud, but also quiet as well. And I do have a vocal teacher, whom I saw today, and confirmed that this is in fact my head voice. He taught me a bunch of exercises to strengthen it as well. Needless to say, I am extremely happy; I gained an entire f'n octave to my range, for chrissake. Now I can sing pretty much anything I'd want to do (in terms of just matching the pitches, not making it sound good). 

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1 hour ago, VideoHere said:

In a song?  It all depends what you want it to sound like, depends on the song, depends on the notes around it...depends, depends, depends....LOL!!

Here is G#4, but it's way you need to hit those notes. There's no room for error.  If you don't get that vowel just right, you are not going to do too well on a song like this.  Watch as the song becomes progressively more difficult for him, and he is a great singer.

Well mainly I am talking about doing originals. So the difference there is....you are going to sing stuff you can sing lol.

What I mean is this....there is a huge difference in trying to sing what comes naturally as compared to trying to sing ANYTHING with ANY vowel combination

So on the next song I write, i'll probably start looking around for some good notes around f4-g#4. right now my guitar is tuned to Drop D so the key of D is pretty obvious. In that case i'll be looking at finding some good notes around the f4-f#4 which is the minor/maj 3rd of the key and I MIGHT try to find a good note to stretch up to the A4 which is the 5th of the D chord.

But generally anything in that sort of f-g#4 range feels good to me.

 

That being said, yes, if I tried every cover song under the sun, some of them may give me fits even in that range because im not THAT experienced yet in mixed voice to have tried every vowel coming from every other vowel etc etc.

 

I think generally I just tend to open up and sing the note, I dont know too many fancy covering type tricks yet or anything like that. Generally I probably sing a lot of A's and I's and whatever diphthongs and combinations exist around those sounds. I can sort of count on one hand the times ive sang E' or O's. I'll get around to it after a while lol

 

 This note on the phrase "you GOTta get away" is probably my fave note ive put in a song so far. I just like the quality and vibe of the note. What is that...g#4?

"GOTta"...what is that, an "ah"?

https://clyp.it/wxdxad1f

 

and these notes? not sure of the highest pitch there but its a really nice range for me https://clyp.it/kbjnoyjm

 

I mean, you tell me, I just sing. Im no expert on this or that vowel or "coordination" but that range feels nice to me. Im not trying to pull up a lot of chest into it, im just mixing up into head voice comfortably

 

I know for a fact i can NOT sing a strong B4 for instance the Rainbow song "I cant let you go". I might could sort of squeak it but nowhere near what JLT is doing. Ill get it eventually though but not yet

 

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16 minutes ago, muffinhead said:

Update #2: What I found before actually wasn't my head voice; I think it was belting up to an A#4 using chest voice. I discovered my actual head voice yesterday, and I can do C5 no problem. In fact, I can go beyond it, basically up to an A5, which I don't know whether it is technically head voice or not, but it sounds stronger than falsetto. And the best part is, these pitches are easy. I have no tension in my throat whatsoever, and I can make them pretty loud, but also quiet as well. And I do have a vocal teacher, whom I saw today, and confirmed that this is in fact my head voice. He taught me a bunch of exercises to strengthen it as well. Needless to say, I am extremely happy; I gained an entire f'n octave to my range, for chrissake. Now I can sing pretty much anything I'd want to do (in terms of just matching the pitches, not making it sound good). 

reinforced falsetto?? (strong rock falsetto)  this isnt your whispy type falsetto but IMO it also isnt a true head voice

is it "connected"..in other words can u bridge up to it and also down from it back down to chest voice range?

My true head voice might be stretching it to hit a c5...but my reinforced falsetto can hit more like d#, e, f5 on a good day

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1 hour ago, JonJon said:

reinforced falsetto?? (strong rock falsetto)  this isnt your whispy type falsetto but IMO it also isnt a true head voice

is it "connected"..in other words can u bridge up to it and also down from it back down to chest voice range?

My true head voice might be stretching it to hit a c5...but my reinforced falsetto can hit more like d#, e, f5 on a good day

Are you a baritone or tenor? Also, should head voice feel tense in the throat at all? What I'm doing right now feels completely effortless. 

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11 minutes ago, muffinhead said:

Are you a baritone or tenor? Also, should head voice feel tense in the throat at all? What I'm doing right now feels completely effortless. 

baritone or tenor? Dude, no matter what I say, someone will say im wrong lol. Ive actually never even considered the question.

 

Personally, when I sing in head voice I cant say its effortless....then again I can sing pretty light in head voice so its not like it has to be any sort of massive strain. I do still feel headvoice a bit in the "throat" depending on how high or low the note is. A note like an e4 or f4 is just barely getting up into the headvoice so that is why people use the term "mixed voice".

On the other hand, if I sing high falsetto stuff, even strong rock type falsetto, thats not really in the throat at all. I feel it way up in my brain lol. That would be about the only thing I could call "effortless"

 

I feel my typical headvoice stuff more focused on my hard palate or back somewhat towards the soft palate

 

 

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13 minutes ago, muffinhead said:

Are you a baritone or tenor? Also, should head voice feel tense in the throat at all? What I'm doing right now feels completely effortless. 

if you listen to any of the Joe Lynn Turner stuff I posted above, he is classified as a "bari-tenor"....having elements of baritone and tenor.

Its not hard to see why. At least to me he tends to almost ALWAYS have some "chesty" sound in his notes as in the example I posted where he is hitting a strong B4 but its still sort of "throaty" to my ears. Surely he is feeling some of that in his throat

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Of course you can develop those notes, man. I myself have half your range, and I still can sing a lot of songs pretty decently. Anyone can phonate notes, but singing is a totally different beast to tame, so be conscious of that and never neglect the art itself. 

My range goes between a singable A2 and a singable E5.. sometimes full voice F#5 or falsetto F#5, haha. I'm training for that. And well, I consider myself a person with a weak voice. It got atrophied because of years of underusage, and after a year of training I got a vocal fold gap due to GERD and muscular imbalances produced by that.
This is my second year singing and I asure you, you can learn to SING all those notes with proper training, man :)
 

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