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I am really struggling to improve the legato feel of my singing.  I came across a post that says excessive air and breath pressure will be counterproductive for smooth legato.  

What extent of breath is required for various pitches(High, medium and low), to lets say sing the same duration?  

Also, to what extent transition through passagio is related to breath pressure 

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Exactly .835 liters of air. I saw it in the golden tablets from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Moroni.

And yes, I can get away with that joke because I was baptised as a mormon when I was young. Even ordained as an aaronic priest.

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3 hours ago, aravindmadis said:

I am really struggling to improve the legato feel of my singing.  I came across a post that says excessive air and breath pressure will be counterproductive for smooth legato.  

What extent of breath is required for various pitches(High, medium and low), to lets say sing the same duration?  

Also, to what extent transition through passagio is related to breath pressure 

These are concepts. There is no exact amount of pressure etc.(unless you are Rows of course and have access to the secret knowledge)   The idea is use as little as you need, but you still need the pressure........... Training and adjusting........

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5 hours ago, The Future Vocalist said:

Did you have to wear the sacred underwear? :4:

No, actually, usually the adults wore those. In fact, upon turning 18, a young man would get ordained as a melchezidek priest and go to a nearby temple and get the garment blessed. For those who don't know what Future is talking about, mormons wear an undergarment that looks like a onesie shorts. If blessed, this garment is to protect vital organs behind it.

I don't have that garment.

 

:bang:

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7 minutes ago, aravindmadis said:

Do you need to use as less air as possible?  How does one learn and build this habit.. 

Think of it like this.............. Lets say your breaking point is G4.......... You can sing F#4 without any problem but at G4 you need more breath/breath pressure............. If you are giving your all for F#4 you do not have any more pressure you can increase for that G4.

 You need to get the F#4 at a lower pressure so you can increase pressure to engage the G4.

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12 hours ago, ronws said:

Exactly .835 liters of air. I saw it in the golden tablets from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Moroni.

And yes, I can get away with that joke because I was baptised as a mormon when I was young. Even ordained as an aaronic priest.

 

 president Monsen gave us chocolates once.....so you know I'm pretty much  exalted to the celestial kingdom and have obtained eternal life. 

 

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What has help me the most with breathing is that I just stopped thinking about it. I simply just made it a habit to breathe with my belly and when I sing I just focus on getting a resonant  free sound. Many important things with singing I have found come naturally if you just focus on having a resonant strained free sound. Atleast for me that is.....

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I am really struggling to improve the legato feel of my singing.  I came across a post that says excessive air and breath pressure will be counterproductive for smooth legato.  

What extent of breath is required for various pitches(High, medium and low), to lets say sing the same duration?  

Also, to what extent transition through passagio is related to breath pressure 

Hey Aravind, I think it's best worked out with a teacher. But if you wanna get a feeling for singing on the breath try semi occluded exercices: lip roll, tongue trill, v, z, hum etc... or put a straw in a glass of water (or beer!) and do glides. Try and keep the bubbles the same wether you are high or low in pitch.

I sometimes tell my students to sing on the breath or breathe through the scale/phrase which helps them since they know what I'm talking about however through text it can easily be misinterpreted.

Long tones with a crescendo may also be a good exercise to test your legato. You can also do a simple 5 tone scale repeated with a crescendo. However those exercises must be done correctly again that's why you need a teacher.

For songs, speak the lyrics on a single pitch with an even flow of breath before singing them. You can also sing a phrase on a lip roll first.

 

 

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13 hours ago, aravindmadis said:

Do you need to use as less air as possible?  How does one learn and build this habit.. 

Here's what I recommend you do. First, resign yourself to the fact that you need to include breathing exercises in your daily practice routine.  You need to understand you must ultimately gain a voluntary control over your exhalation. Also, you must develop the ability in inhale at various speeds and capacities.  Some songs will have you emptying out of air faster than others.  Some songs will requires a long held out note sung pianisimo. Some songs leave very little time to breathe.  All kinds of scenarios can occur sometimes within a single word or syllable!

It all depends on what you have to sing and what sound you are going for.  I promise you if you get better at managing your air you are going to make gains you couldn't possibly have predicted!  Your air should not be punched into the vocal folds in an uncontrolled way.  You have to develop the ability to "apply the air" up against them.  If you want to sing with a lot of dynamics you will be managing an infinite amount of air pressures.

These are some of the best:

 

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23 hours ago, Bzean123 said:

I'll race you there Ron :bang:

But tell me more about this undergarment. Is it like a divine cup - a sacred chalice, so to speak? In other words, if I'm wearing it, can I play one on one against Draymond Green without fear of huevos revueltos?

Not a cup, like an athletic protector. Just a blessed garment that combines boxer shorts and t-shirt into one unit. And yes, going to the restroom while wearing one of those things is a contretemp, indeed.

 

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10 hours ago, VideoHere said:

Here's what I recommend you do. First, resign yourself to the fact that you need to include breathing exercises in your daily practice routine.  You need to understand you must ultimately gain a voluntary control over your exhalation. Also, you must develop the ability in inhale at various speeds and capacities.  Some songs will have you emptying out of air faster than others.  Some songs will requires a long held out note sung pianisimo. Some songs leave very little time to breathe.  All kinds of scenarios can occur sometimes within a single word or syllable!

It all depends on what you have to sing and what sound you are going for.  I promise you if you get better at managing your air you are going to make gains you couldn't possibly have predicted!  Your air should not be punched into the vocal folds in an uncontrolled way.  You have to develop the ability to "apply the air" up against them.  If you want to sing with a lot of dynamics you will be managing an infinite amount of air pressures.

These are some of the best:

 

That's why I don't think of singing as needing more support to go higher.  If you open your embouchure (lol) as wide as you can without tensing the jaw it will require way less pressure to sing than plenty of the coordinations involved in a regular unhinged embouchre position.  The difference is once you have that boomy support and wide open embouchure you need more subtle movements of the tounge, lips face etc.

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3 minutes ago, aravindmadis said:

Thanks folks.  One more question.. Do you prefer breathing through nose or mouth(inhalation)?  And why? 

I prefer mouth but lately haven't been getting the right inhales all the time so I've been switching to nose.  I feel like nose helps make sure you have a deep breath rather than a hyperventilated one.

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52 minutes ago, aravindmadis said:

Thanks folks.  One more question.. Do you prefer breathing through nose or mouth(inhalation)?  And why? 

nose, mouth drys me out. Its also a lot easier to do quite breathing.

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Thanks folks.  One more question.. Do you prefer breathing through nose or mouth(inhalation)?  And why? 

Both.

Breathing through the nose with a slightly open mouth and relaxed jaw helps keep the back of the tongue high. Mouth breathing can often result in yawning the back of the tongue down into the throat which you don't want for obvious reasons. I tell my students (especially those who tense up a lot) to take their time and breathe slowly through the nose before singing a phrase/scale. It's usually enough to make them relax and squeeze less.

When singing songs you don't always have the time to breathe through the nose which is fine. When you run out of air and relax your support muscles the air will come in by itself you don't need to breathe to make that happen.

 

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12 hours ago, Collin571 said:

That's why I don't think of singing as needing more support to go higher.  If you open your embouchure (lol) as wide as you can without tensing the jaw it will require way less pressure to sing than plenty of the coordinations involved in a regular unhinged embouchre position.  The difference is once you have that boomy support and wide open embouchure you need more subtle movements of the tounge, lips face etc.

WHAT????

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13 hours ago, Collin571 said:

That's why I don't think of singing as needing more support to go higher.  If you open your embouchure (lol) as wide as you can without tensing the jaw it will require way less pressure to sing than plenty of the coordinations involved in a regular unhinged embouchre position.  The difference is once you have that boomy support and wide open embouchure you need more subtle movements of the tounge, lips face etc.

WHAT????

Like this:


569947-big-mouth.jpg

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On July 13, 2016 at 8:13 AM, aravindmadis said:

I am really struggling to improve the legato feel of my singing.  I came across a post that says excessive air and breath pressure will be counterproductive for smooth legato.  

What extent of breath is required for various pitches(High, medium and low), to lets say sing the same duration?  

Also, to what extent transition through passagio is related to breath pressure 

Yes and no. You seem to understand some of the benefits of a lighter respiration and open embouchure, but you are failing to recognize, because you have note learned it yet, what the consequences are that come from singing with an embouchure that is too splatty and open, in particular, your ability to "pull" chest voice above the vocal break and sing in your head voice. A wide open embouchure WEAKENS the TA musculature and anchoring you need to sing in your head voice with belts.

A critical detail that people are not aware of until they actually begin to train belt and acoustic narrowing techniques and sing in the head voice with it. 

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1 hour ago, Robert Lunte said:

Yes and no. You seem to understand some of the benefits of a lighter respiration and open embouchure, but you are failing to recognize, because you have note learned it yet, what the consequences are that come from singing with an embouchure that is too splatty and open, in particular, your ability to "pull" chest voice above the vocal break and sing in your head voice. A wide open embouchure WEAKENS the TA musculature and anchoring you need to sing in your head voice with belts.

A critical detail that people are not aware of until they actually begin to train belt and acoustic narrowing techniques and sing in the head voice with it. 

I've also noticed that being able to control the embouchure openness can help adjust the ease and tension of some of the higher notes. For instance, If I'm belting a B4 or C5 and feel unnecessary tension building, especially when I keep singing around up there, I often open more wide to allow the TAs to relax a bit. Too much, and it does splat, but just enough keeps my voice from wearing out.

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Yes, it "opens up" and relaxes and you get a sense of "ease" from splatting, but at what price?  I'll tell you... the inability to sing inside the head voice in a  strong belt voice. This is precisely why singers can sing open vowels in their head voice and feel like they are doing great, but when they transition to songs, ti shits out and the voice falls apart... this is the reason.

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