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JonJon

Let's Do a TMV World Song Together!

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7 minutes ago, JonJon said:

We can do a true TMV/T4P theme song another time

 

 

Look how far TMV brought us

Showed my baby my epiglottis

I felt it strong, deep in my bowels

jump back baby, narrow my vowels

 

She told me my notes were all in my head,

No, the mask, was all that I said.

 

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I like the "there will be other songs" attitude. They say that the "worst enemy of good is perfect". I see it in my job as well as in my hobbies, there are times when you just need to let go and roll with it - especially if you decide that it's not the last time you do it. 

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45 minutes ago, JohnnyL said:

I like the "there will be other songs" attitude. They say that the "worst enemy of good is perfect". I see it in my job as well as in my hobbies, there are times when you just need to let go and roll with it - especially if you decide that it's not the last time you do it. 

Well for me I think its a necessity. I am infamous, to myself anyway, for not finishing things. I literally could put down the guitar for 3 years and id not run out of recorded material to record vocals onto. I have many jams on my HD that I dont even remember doing etc. Id do 'em on some work night and forget them.

One of the last pieces of the puzzle for me is to learn to get more pro sounding mixes. So I joined a home recording forum. I sort of told myself that from now on id do a radical thing. ID FINISH A SONG BEFORE STARTING ANOTHER ONE.

So thats what im trying to do. Part of the reason I wouldnt finish things is because halfway thru id realize that it isnt quite as good as AIC/Whitesnake/VHalen/LedZep. So id be like "why continue polishing a turd?"

But like I said, I want to learn to mix and produce now, so I need finished songs. nevermind that one needs finished songs to do an album etc lol.

So I have to continually let go of trying to make each song the be-all end-all. The songs ARE getting better as I go so i just need to keep pluggin' away.

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6 minutes ago, JonJon said:

So thats what im trying to do. Part of the reason I wouldnt finish things is because halfway thru id realize that it isnt quite as good as AIC/Whitesnake/VHalen/LedZep. So id be like "why continue polishing a turd?"

 

Here's a practical tip - Led Zeppelin were turds with high production values.

Don't get me wrong - for years I struggled to write like Zeppelin, until I understood that Zeppelin didn't really write like Zeppelin... and I'm not talking Stairway To Heaven here... let me burst a lemon: 

 

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11 minutes ago, JonJon said:

So thats what im trying to do. Part of the reason I wouldnt finish things is because halfway thru id realize that it isnt quite as good as AIC/Whitesnake/VHalen/LedZep. So id be like "why continue polishing a turd?"

 

   Willy Nelson was a top song writer for years. His songs became #1 for other people. He finally submitted an album for the record company. They said maybe with a little polish it would be fit for release. Willy told them it was finished. They did not agree. He had it published himself and it became a #1 seller.............. The moral.......... Sometimes when you polish, You are creating a turd and covering up a diamond.

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Well I doubt any 1 person can 'write like Zeppelin' since they had 4 skilled people contributing. and good luck getting Bonhams feel out of a drum machine. Very hard to cop Bonham or Plant.

IMO Jimmy Page is a bonafide genius. And yes, I am aware they pinched their share of riffs etc. I mean, I love the blues etc...but you could put Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, and Muddy Waters together and you would never get The Rain Song, Kashmir, In the Light, All of My Love, Achilles Last Stand...etc etc etc

thats why there is no such thing possible as a Led Zep greatest hits. The greatest hits would be the whole catalogue minus the 10 or so duds they had over a 12-13 year recording period

 

if we say Page isnt a genius, then who in rock and roll was? Shoot, IMO Coverdale/Page stands up to anything done at any time.

 

Ive done a few things touching on the Zep feel but hopefully there is more to come

This one was fun, different people were calling out different Zep songs they felt it ripped off lol. Someone said Black Dog but I dont hear that at all....I felt part of it was in the Achilles vein.

Malleus Maximus (Biggest Hammer) http://www.wikiloops.com/backingtrack-jam-24260.php

a forgotten one https://clyp.it/i2h5fdtl

This one has a sort of Page "Guitar Army" feel around :56. Dancing Days feel https://clyp.it/yustho1b

"John Henry" (after John Henry Bonham) https://clyp.it/c1nmnneo

 

That was my vibe around late 2014

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if we are going to accuse jimmy of ripping off 12 bar blues (ripping off stuff ripped off from others who ripped it off beforehand lol)...then lets really accuse him

Jimmy cold ripped off this guitar arrangement of Bert Jansch

 

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1 minute ago, JonJon said:

Well I doubt any 1 person can 'write like Zeppelin' since they had 4 skilled people contributing. and good luck getting Bonhams feel out of a drum machine. Very hard to cop Bonham or Plant.

IMO Jimmy Page is a bonafide genius. And yes, I am aware they pinched their share of riffs etc. I mean, I love the blues etc...but you could put Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson, and Muddy Waters together and you would never get The Rain Song, Kashmir, In the Light, All of My Love, Achilles Last Stand...etc etc etc

 

Well - I think Zep managed to rip-off something from each one of them... I've been a long time Zep fan and could (and still can) play A LOT of their riffs. Taking vocal lessons made me recognize Robert Plant's great talent. However - when I discovered the unaccredited originals of Whole Lotta Love and then Dazed and Confused and finally the Lemon Song - something snapped. I mean, everybody steal, or at least might write something that unintentionally sounds like something they heard and really don't remember what it was. However, with Zep it was a method and not an accident or a happens here and there. 

The other thing with them is that 90% of their lyrics are nonsense. People talk about how stupid current pop lyrics are... Robert had such a great voice that he could make an idiotic line like "You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin', I'm gonna send you back to schoolin'" sound like it really means something... not to mention the hey-hos in the end like he's pulling a gigantic turnip... 

Plus, on every album there are a bunch of crap songs.... 

So - no, I don't find Zeppelin more genius than other bands/artists. Best production values in Rock history, I'll easily hand this on to them.

Lyrics? they had their moments, not too many of them though.

Songwriting abilities? they'd be kicked out of the competition for methodical plagiarism. 

 

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Funny thing is - they constantly received horrible reviews from the Rolling Stone magazine critics. I read somewhere that critics were getting hate mail from LZ fans and there were even critics quitting as the editors demanded to tone down the criticism as LZ were very popular. I think that I'm in the small unpopular group who see the too many faults in Led Zeppelin. 

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyL said:

Well - I think Zep managed to rip-off something from each one of them... I've been a long time Zep fan and could (and still can) play A LOT of their riffs. Taking vocal lessons made me recognize Robert Plant's great talent. However - when I discovered the unaccredited originals of Whole Lotta Love and then Dazed and Confused and finally the Lemon Song - something snapped. I mean, everybody steal, or at least might write something that unintentionally sounds like something they heard and really don't remember what it was. However, with Zep it was a method and not an accident or a happens here and there. 

The other thing with them is that 90% of their lyrics are nonsense. People talk about how stupid current pop lyrics are... Robert had such a great voice that he could make an idiotic line like "You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin', I'm gonna send you back to schoolin'" sound like it really means something... not to mention the hey-hos in the end like he's pulling a gigantic turnip... 

Plus, on every album there are a bunch of crap songs.... 

So - no, I don't find Zeppelin more genius than other bands/artists. Best production values in Rock history, I'll easily hand this on to them.

Lyrics? they had their moments, not too many of them though.

Songwriting abilities? they'd be kicked out of the competition for methodical plagiarism. 

 

who you got as a rock genius then? I'll give you the Beatles. Who else?? try to start naming off songs with the depth or power of The Rain Song, Kashmir, No Quarter etc.

 

Best production values in Rock History?? Im sure Jimmy Page says thank you lol. Like I said, genius at work

 

Here is a good test for all of us. Feel free to rip off ANYONE....now go write something as good as Zep lol

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3 minutes ago, JohnnyL said:

Funny thing is - they constantly received horrible reviews from the Rolling Stone magazine critics. I read somewhere that critics were getting hate mail from LZ fans and there were even critics quitting as the editors demanded to tone down the criticism as LZ were very popular. I think that I'm in the small unpopular group who see the too many faults in Led Zeppelin. 

faults? whats that got to do with anything. John Lennon didnt have faults? Michael Jackson didnt? You and I dont?

In the end they contributed great music

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Just now, JonJon said:

who you got as a rock genius then? I'll give you the Beatles. Who else?? try to start naming off songs with the depth or power of The Rain Song, Kashmir, No Quarter etc.

 

Best production values in Rock History?? Im sure Jimmy Page says thank you lol. Like I said, genius at work

 

Here is a good test for all of us. Feel free to rip off ANYONE....now go write something as good as Zep lol

I don't see anyone as genius. Too easy to start throwing around examples of good or bad things a person does... 

Again - good songs are a matter of definition, taste and mood... Zeppelin might be great for you (and also for me) but a lot of people don't like them for their music and that's it... I have a big issue with their lack of integrity not with the big hits... 

And you know what? here's an experiment - you try ripping them off. You have the production tools right? take one song and see what you can improve in it. For starters, I bet you can do a better job with the lyrics (Plant usually didn't try too hard)... then post it as your own and pretend that there's no problem with plagiarism as you "made it better".

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coincidentally i am going to try to put a Robert Plant scream in the intro to this song lol. I think ill save it for last though so I dont blow anything out lol

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2 minutes ago, JohnnyL said:

I don't see anyone as genius. Too easy to start throwing around examples of good or bad things a person does... 

Again - good songs are a matter of definition, taste and mood... Zeppelin might be great for you (and also for me) but a lot of people don't like them for their music and that's it... I have a big issue with their lack of integrity not with the big hits... 

And you know what? here's an experiment - you try ripping them off. You have the production tools right? take one song and see what you can improve in it. For starters, I bet you can do a better job with the lyrics (Plant usually didn't try too hard)... then post it as your own and pretend that there's no problem with plagiarism as you "made it better".

integrity?    in rock and roll?  uhmm, okay lol. The whole entertainment industry was shady long before any of the Zep guys were born.

Ill let the courts decide the plagiarism cases. But if they yank all plagiarised music off the market we wont have much left to listen to.

I dont idolize any of the music or TV/Movie guys. Lotta drug addicts, pervs, wife beaters, liars, cheaters etc. But I owe some of them a debt of gratitude for the great music ive enjoyed through the years

TBH, I wish Zep would have ripped off MORE people if it meant more great music. Some poor languishing, long dead, long forgotten blues guy could get a new lease on life if Jimmy would knock off a song on the guy

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Well, at least the misunderstanding created traffic and content, at the expense of people's feelings and peace of mind.  So, I suppose, content and traffic is more important than piece of mind.

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9 hours ago, JonJon said:

ok lyrics are done. I pretty much have the melodies in my head. of course when I lay in bed and write lyrics and hear melodies in my head they are generally in chest voice and low head voice so i'll have to step to the mic to work out the higher parts.

I am going to try to put a wide vocal range into the singing so everyone can find spots to jump in etc. Some easier parts and some maybe more challenging.

The verse im hearing sort of relaxed and low larnyxy to go with the introspective lyrics. (we need Jarom! lol)

The bridge doesnt have lyrics per se so I am going to improv some stuff and I hope people will get in touch with their inner Robert Plant or Roger Waters or even Chaka Khan

 

The lyrics are sort of quasi poignant, pensive, but hopeful etc. Not really a singalong anthem I dont think, but this is just what came out (the times we live in). I think they match the music nicely

 

I will probably start singing this afternoon, to give my voice some time to wake up lol

 

Hold your tongue, I heard them say.

Keep it down, play it safe.

Who are you to think, you should be heard, anyway?   <-----(yes, its wordy but it fits lol)

 

So I stood silent, and good men died.

I watched the world, live a lie

And now we're running out of time

 

Im only one, but still im gonna play my part

You speak your mind, yeah im gonna sing my heart.

Im gonna sing if its the last thing that I do

Sing it for you

 

Back to the wall, I been here before

Stand or fall, and cry no more

Still I admit, it feels like the end

Into the fire, once again

 

Im only one, but still im gonna play my part

You speak your mind, yeah im gonna sing my heart.

Im gonna sing if its the last thing that I do

Sing it for you

 

 

The breakdown if you want to try to match the lyrics to the music

Verse 1a      Hold your tongue, I heard them saaaaay. Keep it down, play it saaaaafe.

turnaround/release  (who are you to think you should be heeeard anyway)

verse 1b      So I stood silent, and good men died. and I watched the world, live a liiiiieeeeee.

Prechorus    And now were running out of tiiiiiiime.

chorus          Im only o-one, still im gonna play my part.   You speak your mii-ind, yeah im gonna sing my heart.

midpoint       Im gonna sing if its the last thing that I do

halftime       (sing it for) yoooooooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuu

 

v2                 Back to the wall, I been here before. Stand or fall, and cry no more.

                     Still I admit, it feels like the end

PC                 Into the fire, once agaaaaaaain

Chorus etc

 

 

 

 

LET THE NAYSAYING COMMENCE!!!!!!!!!!!    lol

Great job JonJon! I can't wait to hear it with the music! 

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1 hour ago, ronws said:

Well, at least the misunderstanding created traffic and content, at the expense of people's feelings and peace of mind.  So, I suppose, content and traffic is more important than piece of mind.

dude, this is a singers forum. We cant even discuss breakfast without someone getting their feelings hurt

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4 minutes ago, Gneetapp said:

Great job JonJon! I can't wait to hear it with the music! 

 

Im almost done. Ya'll will hear it tonight, Lord Willing

Im in the middle of it so i have lost some perspective at this point. The halftime chorus part is cool though....sounds like the Eagles got pissed off and did some background vocals. 3 part harmony, each part doubled on a long held "you" note, top note f#5

TBH, I dont know if I can even lay down the last chorus, im shot lol.

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I liked the lyrics, Jonjon. I'd find it easier to write or sing something that isn't directly about a forum or a brand or something too, which is not knocking this forum.

I actually wrote a song pretty much the next day after the first Modern Vocalist Theme Song was proposed. I ended up writing about singing too. I might revive that song and see if anyone else wants to sing it. It didn't really fit my artistic temperament cause it was written more for a different purpose rather than artistic intent.  

As for Zepellin, I have a preference and appreciation for originality, but I like some of their stuff. There's room for originality and re-arranging the past in an appealing way in music. My favorites often have both a unique quality and an appeal though. That's what inspires me to improve as an artist. If everything was hip hop samples of the past, I don't think I'd listen to any music.

On the other hand, if everyone agreed to stop using the note C, because it had already been done. It would be interesting, but would likely make music inferior in the long haul. It's all a balance and preference.

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7 hours ago, JonJon said:

if we are going to accuse jimmy of ripping off 12 bar blues (ripping off stuff ripped off from others who ripped it off beforehand lol)...then lets really accuse him

Jimmy cold ripped off this guitar arrangement of Bert Jansch

 

Bert Jansch! Awesome! I have his greatest hits album. That's some clunky pick'n... But raw and cool.

Is it just me or does Bert Jansch resemble Daniel a bit? Like Daniel after a four hour set of ac/dc without sleep. Thank God Daniel doesn't sing like Bert Jansch! 

Jk

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No, the original that this thread is about. Well I mean the bed tracks with vocal guide etc etc

Pretty cool song. dont go nowhere for 3 more minutes lol

 

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okay guys, here we go. A quicky mix to hear what the song is about

https://clyp.it/03sq5usl

I'll break it all down tomorrow explaining the parts etc. And ill do some different mixes to isolate the harmony parts etc in case someone wants to tackle those

I shot my voice a little and had to cut and paste the 3rd/4th chorus lol. but I did do all of the harmony vox without cut and paste

 

Bedtime. Ya'll let me know what you think

 

Peace, JJ

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there is such a law in nature as the "inverse creativity to sleep ratio"

when you birth a good song you get the honor of going to work with 3 hours sleep. Poor John Lennon, Clapton etc, they never experienced such pleasure

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