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Difference between tenor and countertenors? And is tenor C, a C6 or C5?

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Ren

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I just got confused by this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor. It basically says that tenor is one of the highest male voice types. So that means that the highest is countertenor? But I thought tenor and countertenor has the same range. And the difference is, tenors are singers who sing more in a male range, while countertenors sing more in a female range. It also says that C5 is the tenor high C. But I remember reading somewhere that C6 is the tenor high C. So I'm confused. And I also know that Wikipedia can sometimes be wrong, because anyone can just go on there and write stuff. So I'll just ask this question here. Idk what tag I should put this in, because I have very little singing and voice knowledge, and Idk what a bunch of those tags mean. So I just put it in chest, head, and mixed voice. Because this question includes those stuff

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Countertenors are really more like, reinforced falsettoists to my ears. That would imply, among other things, that they have a lower closed quotient on the vocal folds (more thinning) and therefore actually do produce a sound color that is leaning more towards the Falsetto spectrum. They don't sound as "chesty" as contemporary singers do in the head voice. Less belt musculature / TA engagement. More CT dominance, less TA engagement.

Countertenors, do to their repertoire also tend to posses great agility due to the coloratura and runs they have to master in their genre.

 

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I recently got a student who was trained as a countertenor, and I'm teaching him to belt. Definitely learning a completely new technique for him, but I find his ability to go between and belting reinforced falsetto to be strikingly beautiful and amazing. It has also helped him circumvent the urge/tendency to yell higher notes that most contemporary singers deal with.

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1 hour ago, Robert Lunte said:

Countertenors, do to their repertoire also tend to posses great agility due to the coloratura and runs they have to master in their genre.

I sing in the choir at my church. i know some of you might be having a good little giggle about that. " What the,  that potty mouth old hippie goes to church and sings in a choir?!  anyway, hah! yes i do. but that's a story i won't contaminate your brain with.

So in this choir we usually have two parishioners singing in each vocal fach (sprano,alto,tenor,bass), and one paid pro also in each category of singer. Everyone in this choir can sight read music but me, and these pros the musical director hires are a fascinating group of singers, all trained, some with extraordinary talent, a few teachers of voice, some who sing in the L.A. and San Fran. opera. I've seen one of the tenors (as praised in Robert Lunte's quote above) walk in to the room, pick up the sheet music for a song he's never seen before, and sing it flawlessly (a solo part) on the first run through with the choir. I'm just guessing, but I'd bet they're not getting paid more than $100 per 4hr Sunday gig. (anyone who might know correct me, i hope i'm wrong, they deserve more). 

What I find humorous and humbling is, (as a rocker) it's really hard for me to sing in that classic style and not sound like a parody act. Yet, it is an interesting challenge to try and phonate that smooth, warm, lowered larynx sound color; a supported, subtle and "in the pocket" vibrato, and sound like the real deal. Big time volume control, they're good at sustaining chesty texture regardless of the volume or pitch of the note. They practiced the "classic version" of the messa di voce onset in their training routine extensively. 

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3 minutes ago, JonJon said:

that counter is a little freaky to me lol. Almost looks like an overdub. The voice not matching the face etc

sounds like a woman to me Jonjon. hee hee. Here's a guy i know who's a pro tenor (not counter) but you can hear his "man color" edge is still present.  btw, beware the performance following him.

 

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2 minutes ago, VideoHere said:

Wow!  What happened to the rest of my post?

haha, welcome to the crowd. its been eating my longer posts.

next time, before u post, right click and go "select all" and then copy it just in case lol

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18 minutes ago, Robert Lunte said:

I guys I made some changes today that can be reversed, no problem but honestly, I don't see what your talking about?  Send me a screen shot to my email? because all these posts look fine to me?

some of it started for me the other day when I was posting those 6-7 links for the bed tracks.  It seems like as soon as the "formatting" part hit, the rest of the post was cut off. So it seems to have something to do with the auto formatting? Dunno. It started for me Tue the 16th I think

if you look at this post where Gneetap quotes me....you see that he was quoting the post that the forum had eaten. Notice his quote only has like 1 link whereas my post that he quoted had like 6-7 links when I hit submit. I had to go back and fix it etc

look here--->

 

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I have our developer looking at it guys... sorry. There is nothing i can do about this one, we have to wait. I hope that if it is a cache issue, that the system will catch up and cache all it needs to cache and the problem will just go away... but our IT "gun" is on it. Sorry.

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On August 16, 2016 at 9:39 PM, YouCanSingAnything said:

Baritones and tenors are in different camps because of things like vocal tract length, vocal fold length, etc. Countertenors are just men singing in head voice the way women do in choir/opera. Countertenors can be baritones, basses, or baritones.

C5 = Tenor high C
C6 = Soprano high C

Also some systems in other countries use a different octave numbering system than the US. Maybe that's part of the confusion. Either way... stop reading things online or taking them seriously. There are very, very few good places to find information about singing online... and they are probably far too boring for you want to read haha!

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is your underlying confusion about registration? That was my confusion when I was exploring this topic.

My confusion was: Voice type-wise, I thought tenor and countertenor are the same voice types (they have the same vocal range, etc.). But Wikipedia is basically implying that they're not. By saying that tenor is one of the highest of male voice types. So that means it's not the highest, and the highest would be countertenor, but I thought tenor and countertenor are the same voice types. And the only difference is that, Singing-wise: a tenor sings in a male range, while a countertenor sings in a female range.

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Btw, thanks for the answers.

Sorry for the late replies. I read your replies right away, some hour(s) later, or when I wake up in the morning, when you post them. But I'm a procrastinator, so I tend to do things pretty late. But I'll try to reply quicker, in future posts.

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21 minutes ago, Ren said:

My confusion was: Voice type-wise, I thought tenor and countertenor are the same voice types (they have the same vocal range, etc.). But Wikipedia is basically implying that they're not. By saying that tenor is one of the highest of male voice types. So that means it's not the highest, and the highest would be countertenor, but I thought tenor and countertenor are the same voice types. And the only difference is that, Singing-wise: a tenor sings in a male range, while a countertenor sings in a female range.

Countertenor is not the highest. Tenore leggiero, now those guys are high.

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