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xxDutchiexx

Discover My Voice or Sound LIke Someone Else?

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this is kinda hard to explain properly, ill try my best.

so when i try to sing, there is hundreds upon hundreds of different type of sounds that i can apply to my voice, for instance, i can make my voice sound compressed, nasally ect... there is many more different sounds i can do but i simply do not even know how to discribe them, and sadly, none of them sound good at all, some sound better then others, but they are all still border line horrible. when trying to apply changes to the sound of my voice, i feel like i am constricting my vocal range in some way, i feel a tension of some sort in my throat, and this tension prevents my voice from reaching the desired key/pitch i aim for. 

should i not try to change the sound of my voice when singing?  should i just use my natural speaking voice to sing while allowing my voice to sound how ever it naturally sounds? my voice is quite deep naturally and doesnt sound right when trying to sing with my naturall speaking voice.

is what i am saying makes sense to anyone? 

another thing: so lets say i somehow manage to sing on key/pitch perfectly, now, does this mean that my voice will be pleasant to listen to? is key/pitch what makes a singers voice sound good/bad? could i sing on pitch/key perfectly, but still have my voice sounding horrible due to the overall sound of my voice?

 

one last thing XD: it seems that i can sing country songs 100x better then the songs i prefer to sing. i actually caught myself off guard when singing a country song just for testing purposes, i found out how to allow my mic play through my headphones with a track playing in the back ground, with this, i can hear myself in real time and make adjustments to my voice if needed. insanely enough, when i sing a country song, i can let my voice sing in my natural speaking voice kinda, like, i feel no tension in my throat at all and my voice doesnt even sound like im the one singing it, its hard to explain, it just sounds great compared to other types of songs i sing. only bad thing is that i hate country music with a passion, if i had to choose between singing country good or not singing at all, then i choose to sing nothing at all lol. am i doomed to only sing country? 

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Singinng vowels are in a very sifferent spot than speech vowels. Singing has a variety of accents to choose from too, depending on how far forward or back you anchor your vowels. You can decide on the sound you ultimately want, and train for that sound specifically. Or you can stay the kack of all trades or at least learn how to manipulate your voice n those different ways to further your mastery of the voice.  Here's a video I show a lot of my newer students when they start talking about finding "their" voice. Note how he uses different vowel placements/accents, and the facial expressions (muscle configuratinos) to support them.

 

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thanks for that info and video! this is exactly what i needed to know. i been going about singing totally wrong, no wonder i made 0 progress. i been focusing so much on trying to find a voice that works for me, im constantly changing my voice, trying new things, this causes me not to progress at all because i dont practice and improve a certain method for singing, i assumed that i would eventually stumble upon a method that sounds good with my voice, if i been focusing on improving one type of sound, im sure i would of made tons of progress by now.

 

and when u mentioned singing vowels, it made total sense to me because i have noticed that sometimes when i sing certain vowels they sound absolutely perfect, and in order for me to sing the vowels properly, i have to control the release of air in the right way to make it sound good, i think i may try to apply that method to all of my singing.

 

great video and info, will be of great help.

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    There are a lot of contradictions in learning and training to sing. One of the main ones that I have come across is that you do not want to manipulate the voice. Everything should be free and easy. In a sense this is correct BUT you need to control certain aspects and that is manipulation even if it is Relaxing certain muscles that get in the way while maintaining Control of muscles that want to let go.

     The "Natural" timbre of your voice is do to tensions that you have adopted over the years. Your Accent, Pitch center, inflections, mannerisms. The same voice can sound like Don Knotts or Morgan Freeman. Truth be told you will not know how you CAN sound singing until you try different things. BUT, the main starting point is to get the correct muscles strong enough and the opposing muscles to let go.

      Exercises have Reasons for doing them and goals to reach. A proper coach is best. If you are doing this on your own, at least find out the Reasons behind Exercises before doing them.

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Try a few things out from this video. There's no way I could create a definitive video to make up for the months of training it takes to gain coordination and strength with the right muscle groups. But this video goes over the very basics. It's a good starting point. However, nothing beats having a good coach to guide you through your particular voice and take you beyond short, basic videos. If you're truly serious about learning to sing, also check out The Four Pillars of Singing. There isn't a more comprehensive course out there, and certainly not at the price.

 

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17 hours ago, MDEW said:

    There are a lot of contradictions in learning and training to sing. One of the main ones that I have come across is that you do not want to manipulate the voice. Everything should be free and easy. In a sense this is correct BUT you need to control certain aspects and that is manipulation even if it is Relaxing certain muscles that get in the way while maintaining Control of muscles that want to let go.

     The "Natural" timbre of your voice is do to tensions that you have adopted over the years. Your Accent, Pitch center, inflections, mannerisms. The same voice can sound like Don Knotts or Morgan Freeman. Truth be told you will not know how you CAN sound singing until you try different things. BUT, the main starting point is to get the correct muscles strong enough and the opposing muscles to let go.

      Exercises have Reasons for doing them and goals to reach. A proper coach is best. If you are doing this on your own, at least find out the Reasons behind Exercises before doing them.

good advice.and dang, singing is so much more complex then what i thought it would be, good singers make it look easy, like they are not even trying. so its decided, i declare that all the good singers are not from this planet, they must be alien shape shifters! 

 

all jokes aside, i seem to have created my own type of practice, what i have been doing is re-playing the first phrase of a song over and over and over, between each repeat, i attempt to simply mimic the phrase over and over, trying new things and such until i find a technique that sounds decent or at least better then all my other previous attempts. once i find something i like, i practice it over and over while trying to make it sound better each time i sing it. 

do you think practicing this way will yield any good  results? 

 

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I do not mean to make it sound more complex than it is. The main intent was to let you know to get rid of preconceived ideas or sound preferences. They are what gets in our way of releasing constrictions and using the wrong muscles. Exercise and train with a purpose and sing for the pleasure. Use what the exercises teach you.

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On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 3:34 AM, Draven Grey said:

Singing has a variety of accents to choose from too, depending on how far forward or back you anchor your vowels. You can decide on the sound you ultimately want, and train for that sound specifically. Or you can stay the kack of all trades or at least learn how to manipulate your voice n those different ways to further your mastery of the voice.  

Note how he uses different vowel placements/accents, and the facial expressions (muscle configuratinos) to support them.

Is this the trick to singing different voices then?

Is it something you teach (or can teach)?

Can it be done so a male can impersonate a female voice (in a song that is)?

Is the guy in the video one of your students?

 

Thanks

2Cats IADB

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5 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Is this the trick to singing different voices then?

 

No. There's no trick. But you can choose your voice within the confines of how much you can manipulate your vocal tract, which comes from training coordination and strength of the different muscle groups involved in singing.

5 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Is it something you teach (or can teach)?

 

Yes. I do all the time. Any good singing coach can teach this, and most do. Although many don't teach it as "singing in voices" or the different shades and accents you can get in different vocal modes and various formant shapes, good coaches at least teach basic vowel modification, as well as formant shape and vocal mode manipulation.

5 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Can it be done so a male can impersonate a female voice (in a song that is)?

 

Yes, to a point. It can be difficult for a male to mimic a female formant shape because the anatomy can be drastically different. However, you can sound female, and there are many examples out there.

5 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Is the guy in the video one of your students?

 

No.

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On 6/23/2017 at 10:34 PM, Draven Grey said:

Singinng vowels are in a very sifferent spot than speech vowels. Singing has a variety of accents to choose from too, depending on how far forward or back you anchor your vowels. You can decide on the sound you ultimately want, and train for that sound specifically. Or you can stay the kack of all trades or at least learn how to manipulate your voice n those different ways to further your mastery of the voice.  Here's a video I show a lot of my newer students when they start talking about finding "their" voice. Note how he uses different vowel placements/accents, and the facial expressions (muscle configuratinos) to support them.

 

 

41 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

No. There's no trick. But you can choose your voice within the confines of how much you can manipulate your vocal tract, which comes from training coordination and strength of the different muscle groups involved in singing.

To continue Dravens reply......... Notice that this singer still "Sounds" like himself, not those he is mimicking. In some cases there are not enough low frequencies being generated by his vocal folds(he is NOT a baritone ) . This should be titled "One Guy 43 STYLES" not voices.

I often use the phrase "If you do not like the sound/tone of your voice, sing like someone else". This is what I mean. Sometimes by "Mimicking" another voice or style we can learn to adjust our voices to counter act unfavorable habits that cause problems with our tone and singing voice.

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Train and take lessons so you can build the coordination to actually hear your REAL singing voice. A voice that has been worked out with some resonance. Then, focus on YOUR sound, your voice. You can't sing like someone else, not really. You can pretend and try to sound like someone else, but what would you rather do. Pretend to be someone else or find your own voice.

There is no argument here.

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On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 3:39 PM, Draven Grey said:

Yes. I do all the time. Any good singing coach can teach this, and most do. Although many don't teach it as "singing in voices" or the different shades and accents you can get in different vocal modes and various formant shapes, good coaches at least teach basic vowel modification, as well as formant shape and vocal mode manipulation.

Yes, to a point. It can be difficult for a male to mimic a female formant shape because the anatomy can be drastically different. However, you can sound female, and there are many examples out there.

I have just changed service provider on my mobile internet and they are offering a package for me of 12KB a month which I will then be able to have the ability to make a skype call.

I need to test the line first to see if there is enough bandwidth to make a skype call first though; but if everything goes OK on my end I will send you a PM in a week or two requesting further information on you lessons.

Can you give vocal exersises to takeaway and do after the lesson and do teach how to belt propally?

Thanks

2Cats IADB

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On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 11:12 PM, Robert Lunte said:

Train and take lessons so you can build the coordination to actually hear your REAL singing voice. A voice that has been worked out with some resonance. Then, focus on YOUR sound, your voice. You can't sing like someone else, not really. You can pretend and try to sound like someone else, but what would you rather do. Pretend to be someone else or find your own voice.

There is no argument here.

Yes that's what a lot of other teachers say "its about finding your own voice"

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On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 11:12 PM, Robert Lunte said:

A voice that has been worked out with some resonance.

On ‎25‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 11:12 PM, Robert Lunte said:

 

 

My teacher told me to basically hum and fell the buzz effect on the tip of my lips then realise it onto the Ar or oh vowel, keeping the resonance buzz effect at the front of the mouth. And what a bellowing effect it has!

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On 6/25/2017 at 4:12 PM, Robert Lunte said:

Train and take lessons so you can build the coordination to actually hear your REAL singing voice. A voice that has been worked out with some resonance. Then, focus on YOUR sound, your voice. You can't sing like someone else, not really. You can pretend and try to sound like someone else, but what would you rather do. Pretend to be someone else or find your own voice.

There is no argument here.

I would call that a matter of semantics, as pointed out above. Yes, first comes proper resonance and vowels and formant shapes and the like. However, in the context I was speaking of, the student isn't stuck with one sound. Accent, modifying the vowels slightly, purposefully changing your acoustic mode and formant shape, all contribuute to very different sounds, differnt sounding voices. However, withoutthe basics, it likely won't sound very good, or in the least be extremely limited.

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4 hours ago, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

I have just changed service provider on my mobile internet and they are offering a package for me of 12KB a month which I will then be able to have the ability to make a skype call.

I need to test the line first to see if there is enough bandwidth to make a skype call first though; but if everything goes OK on my end I will send you a PM in a week or two requesting further information on you lessons.

Can you give vocal exersises to takeaway and do after the lesson and do teach how to belt propally?

Thanks

2Cats IADB

Are you in the UK? I'm not sure where I got that impression. If so, my schedule rarely lines up. Regardless, you best bet is to purchase The Four Pillars of Singing and go from there. Most of what I teach is directly from that course, with only a few additions and extra basics (like what is in my videos). Also, I thought you had a teacher already. Is something wrong there?

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16 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

Are you in the UK? I'm not sure where I got that impression. If so, my schedule rarely lines up. Regardless, you best bet is to purchase The Four Pillars of Singing and go from there. Most of what I teach is directly from that course, with only a few additions and extra basics (like what is in my videos). Also, I thought you had a teacher already. Is something wrong there?

Yes I do live in the UK, but at the moment I work nights so my hours are quite off the useual gmt clock.

I am unable to access the four pillars so just wanted a teacher that could teach me what ever I needed to learn

Yes I do have a teacher, but he teaches opera  techniques and not contemporary on the notes I need

I have had 5 lessons from him now and we are now at the stage where we are practicing singing sons and not techniques any more, so you can see where this is going now cant you....

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On June 23, 2017 at 7:34 PM, Draven Grey said:

Singinng vowels are in a very sifferent spot than speech vowels.

Thats strange to me my coach who I still study with and a lot of the great coaches and pedagogies like Richard Miller Dan Marek all say "si canta come si parka" (One sings as one speaks)" never heard of this speech vowels vs singing vowels. And Im old and have many books and studied with at least 20 coaches in my time as well as given seminars at colleges for singing..

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7 hours ago, Draven Grey said:

Now I'm curious. How can you use Skype but not access Four Pillars?

4 pillars is a stream only package; meaning I would have to download the data over and over again each time I wanted to rewatch it.

But I know with the data package my service provider has now offered me which is 12GB/ month(as I'm on 3GB before) ; I know I can expect to use upto 2GB for an hour of skype which is 8GB per month as a one hour lesson a week and still leave me with more then enough data allowance for everything ells I do online

You seamed to be an honest bloke offering his services for lessons on hear; just though I would ask you about training myself that is all

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30 minutes ago, Danielformica said:

Thats strange to me my coach who I still study with and a lot of the great coaches and pedagogies like Richard Miller Dan Marek all say "si canta come si parka" (One sings as one speaks)" never heard of this speech vowels vs singing vowels. And Im old and have many books and studied with at least 20 coaches in my time as well as given seminars at colleges for singing..

Being that any change in tone is a change in throat shape and vowels are throat shapes.....Singing may be considered as sustained speech but you still need to produce resonant tones and proper coordinations......correct vowels.....What are considered the correct or pure vowels? Italian vowels. So I guess for Italians you would sing as you speak. For the rest of us ..... we need to use pure or "Singing" vowels.......

An "Ah" my be an "Ah" in any language but some of us have never produced a pure Ah.   Speaking vowels are shaped by environment. Singing vowels are shaped for a reason.

Sorry Daniel, I had to do that.:)

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On 6/27/2017 at 1:32 PM, 2 cats in a dust bin said:

Yes that's what a lot of other teachers say "its about finding your own voice"

One reason why only singing covers limits your artistry. You can't deny it. Singing originals is a different ball game. Not implying that its more difficult per se, but it is very different craft. 

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1 hour ago, Danielformica said:

Thats strange to me my coach who I still study with and a lot of the great coaches and pedagogies like Richard Miller Dan Marek all say "si canta come si parka" (One sings as one speaks)" never heard of this speech vowels vs singing vowels. And Im old and have many books and studied with at least 20 coaches in my time as well as given seminars at colleges for singing..

Dan, the context of your point here, is not the same as the resonance and vowels of singing vs speech that Draven is hitting at. Singing vowels and speech vowels and their associated resonances are not the same thing, by a long shot. There are many elements that influence the vast difference between the two, but lets just start with frequency. The average frequency range for speech vs the radically broader range, and complex melody for singing. And if that isn't enough to convince you, simply try listening to the vowels in speech vs singing.

Perhaps what you are hitting at is the articulation of singing vowels can feel very similar to singing vowels, when your advanced and very strong. But the actual resonance and phonetics that is being produced are not.

 

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1 hour ago, Danielformica said:

"si canta come si parka" (One sings as one speaks)"

I believe this is referring to the feeling of the articulators. The physicality of it. What it feels like when your doing it. It is not referring to the formant tunings and resonance.

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