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Just now, Robert Lunte said:

That trolls and insults other people.

yeah, dunno, I havent seen that. I did see some feedback on him from a guy who tried to order a CD from him or something and Rob didnt have it and sent another one the guy didnt want lol. The feedback wasnt too good

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2 minutes ago, Draven Grey said:

I definitely could! That's one of the main reasons I got out of coaching music business stuff. The amount of entitlement, self-centeredness, narcisism, and lack of consideration, is staggering. I'm not saying Lundgren is that way. Who knows, maybe he had a bad day, or maybe he's critical of everyone including himself. But I don't know him. His actions speak the loudest. Granted, I also know quite a few very big names that many of my friends idolized until they met them in person and saw thei narcisism and general ass-hole attitude. Over time, that attitude builds a reputation. Those with a lot of success can get away with it to a point. I can't even count how many bands and artists in a local or regional status ignorantly ruined their reputation and career with that attitude. Industry Gatekeepers talk to each other about you.

seems to go with the territory.

I look at the guys I grew up idolizing. Led Zep, Stones, VanHalen etc. Not ONE of those guys ever had a straight job their entire life and they generally were "famous" in their late teens or early 20s. What do you think that does to a person?

Look at someone like Michael Jackson? The word "normal" doesnt even enter into the picture. he was a megastar at like 8 years old

 

There is a famous audio clip of the actor Christian Bale on the set of some movie and one of the stage hands MOVED during a take. omg. Christian went into this ungodly blow up/meltdown. Talk about a self centered narcissistic prick. Dude takes the cake

 

of course, for your audio pleasure I present the following lol (do not listen while drinking coffee etc):

 

 

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1 hour ago, Draven Grey said:

Industry Gatekeepers talk to each other about you.

Yep, they most certainly can and will. For example, Rob Lundgren has been known to leave insults on other people’s performance videos. That’s a major put off.

Just thought the thousands of viewers that see this topic about DIO for years to come should know.

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On 11/7/2017 at 5:53 AM, aravindmadis said:

It is genetics.  Rob is an amazing singer, but he simply does not have the big voice of Dio or Bruce.. Everything including the size of the body impacts the size and darkness of the voice.  Big guys have larger voices simply because of the larger vibratory chamber 

Somehow amazingly in this very song DIO is able to get his chesty tone all the way consistently through the song.  That is why he is so exceptional. With Rob, you can make out that he is bridging.  There is a definite change in the vocal quality.  DIO, it is ONE VOICE all the way through. .Genius at work!! 

Bruce Dickinson is a small guy and Dio was described having the voice of a monster emerging from the body of Carla from Cheers. A lot of rock powerhouses are not particularly big guys - I read a theory that being shorter is actually an advantage for powerful high vocals because the muscles, sinews and tendons in the neck / laryngeal  being in general smaller mean that they don't have to exert as much force to get the same result as a tall guy with proportionally longer neck. I don't think Pavarotti was tall either, stout maybe but not tall.

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On 2017-11-14 at 1:12 PM, TheHopefulBaritone said:

Bruce Dickinson is a small guy and Dio was described having the voice of a monster emerging from the body of Carla from Cheers. A lot of rock powerhouses are not particularly big guys - I read a theory that being shorter is actually an advantage for powerful high vocals because the muscles, sinews and tendons in the neck / laryngeal  being in general smaller mean that they don't have to exert as much force to get the same result as a tall guy with proportionally longer neck. I don't think Pavarotti was tall either, stout maybe but not tall.

Longer muscles don't generate less force so that doesn't make sense :)

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2 hours ago, Electric said:

Longer muscles don't generate less force so that doesn't make sense :)

i think he is saying that its a leverage thing etc. Like in general, powerlifters are shorter people

Also just in general, a smaller instrument will have a higher pitch. A piccolo is smaller and higher pitched than a flute, which is smaller and higher pitched than an oboe etc.

So we are assuming that Dio just had good genetics on top of having tremendous skill. Freddy Mercury might be similar...a small guy with a big voice

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8 minutes ago, JonJon said:

i think he is saying that its a leverage thing etc. Like in general, powerlifters are shorter people

Also just in general, a smaller instrument will have a higher pitch. A piccolo is smaller and higher pitched than a flute, which is smaller and higher pitched than an oboe etc.

So we are assuming that Dio just had good genetics on top of having tremendous skill. Freddy Mercury might be similar...a small guy with a big voice

Yeah I think you at least need a timbre which fits that sound. But to be honest, there is not much point in sounding exactly like Dio, unless you're doing Dio covers. Ther are tons of amazing singers who sound like themselves. I don't really think Dios or Freddie Mercurys sound is that much better than everyone else. Dio just had a great sound and is unique.

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42 minutes ago, Electric said:

Yeah I think you at least need a timbre which fits that sound. But to be honest, there is not much point in sounding exactly like Dio, unless you're doing Dio covers. Ther are tons of amazing singers who sound like themselves. I don't really think Dios or Freddie Mercurys sound is that much better than everyone else. Dio just had a great sound and is unique.

I wouldnt want to sound EXACTLY like Dio lol. That wasnt the point. I was just speaking from a sort of technical point. I think he, along with Jorn Lande and Joe Lynn Turner are all great and I like that sound but it also slightly "blocky" for my tastes. Thats where I also like the lighter guys like Goran Edman, the young Mark Slaughter, Daniel Macmaster etc.

And "better" means absolutely nothing because its all subjective. My point in the thread was that Dio is, for whatever reasons, one of the HARDEST tones to emulate. For instance you can find 5 people sounding like Bruce Dickinson for every 1 that sounds like Dio. Like some of the guys above doing covers, they sound more like if Bruce Dickinson was covering Dio.

Even the Chris Cornell/Robert Plant vibe is way easier to mimic than Dio. For whatever reasons its the combination of a pretty high tessitura WITH a certain roundness or warmth. ANYBODY can sing those songs with a sort of scratchy Janis Joplin or falsetto type voice....but to sing them big and powerful and highly compressed like Ronnie is pretty difficult

The majority of people trying to get that sound will WAY overdo it and just end up yelling. Im scared of I tried it id get evicted lol

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1 minute ago, JonJon said:

This guy is pretty strong overall, lots of different vibes in his voice

 

Yeah I like Nathan James a lot, I've seen him live... but he sounds nothing like dio though :)

He sounds beefier in the studio...

 

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2 minutes ago, Electric said:

Yeah I like Nathan James a lot, I've seen him live... but he sounds nothing like dio though :)

He sounds beefier in the studio...

 

Dude, I dont have a fixation on Dio lol. I simply made a thread expressing a viewpoint. As a student of the game I look at all of these guys from a technical standpoint sometimes...and also as a fan etc.

Nathan James uses a lot more light shades and pure soul influences then Dio

yeah, as far as live music, tbh its usually going to be a let down as far as comparing it to the studio recording

 

to me, this guy (Marq Torien) was one of the best rock singers ever, based on the BulletBoys first 3 albums. Full of soul and attitude and a nice bright voice but also with some roundness and just lots of different expressions etc. that being said, I dont think he was ever THAT great live. I saw them twice, once in early 89 when they were on top of their game. Killer show with lots of energy. But looking at live vids of him, there was no way he was going to replicate the albums live and im pretty sure he simply blew his voice out because its gone now lol

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Electric said:

Yeah I like Nathan James a lot, I've seen him live... but he sounds nothing like dio though :)

He sounds beefier in the studio...

 

 

Actually thats pretty good lol

Trust me, I know from first hand experience how voices can be beefed up in recordings lol

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4 minutes ago, Electric said:

Yeah Nathan James is still awesome :) Bulletboy guy sounds great, it just goes to show there are countless awesome singers :)

dont get me started lol

 

this guy is almost perfect and...pretty much unknown. Huge pure talent on guitar, vocals, songwriting.

check the bridge at 2:40

 

its one thing to listen, its another to actually try to sing this stuff. John Sykes is similar to Nathan James in a certain way, as far as they go thru a LOT of different singing coordinations etc. Lots of shifting gears etc

 

 

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Yeah this guy sounds great too. I think it's good for us singers to pick a style and work really hard to get good at it. Personally I prefer the singers who get beltier and beltier at the top range and not the ones who sing it with balance like Nathan James and this guy. I like the danger when it sounds like the singer isn't gonna make it :)

There is so much the voice can do, I don't think there is time to become a master of every style :)

 

Check this out, this is dangerous singing :D

 

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Haha I don't know. He's been a bit hoarse in a few clips on youtube. But they've been active since 2008 and he sounds better than ever, so probably not. Vocal fold swelling/early nodes go away with rest anyway so maybe he overdoes but his vocals are not declining

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3 hours ago, Electric said:

Haha I don't know. He's been a bit hoarse in a few clips on youtube. But they've been active since 2008 and he sounds better than ever, so probably not. Vocal fold swelling/early nodes go away with rest anyway so maybe he overdoes but his vocals are not declining

yeah, as long as they balance off the craziness with rest and maybe therapies etc, they wont fall apart. Otherwise guys like Steven Tyler wouldnt have lasted 2 years lol

 

here ya go. I just laid these vocals down between my last 2 replies lol. original song

http://indierecordingdepot.com/t/november-challenge-song-four/2266

I have FORCED myself to do 4 song demos so far this month because I train singing and sing in the car but ive been too lazy to lay down many actual vox on recordings.

definitely learning a lot more about the specifics of my voice. So far these is NOT much chesty belting going on lol. No wonder I cant get my DavidLeeRoth vibe going yet hehe

hows it sound?

I know its not perfect. for one thing im ALWAYS like a mile behind the beat lol. too lazy to lay down guitar solos too lol

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You sound really good for the most part I think you know that, sometimes a bit unstable (like 1:29 "all I see" if I have to critique something). You're already singing at a high level so what can be improved is just nuances (like sound color on some words) that you probably will figure out yourself. It's really hard to critique phrasing and details because ultimately that's not really technique. Good job man I'm impressed

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2 minutes ago, Electric said:

You sound really good for the most part I think you know that, sometimes a bit unstable (like 1:29 "all I see" if I have to critique something). You're already singing at a high level so what can be improved is just nuances (like sound color on some words) that you probably will figure out yourself. It's really hard to critique phrasing and details because ultimately that's not really technique. Good job man I'm impressed

yeah, that "all i see" i was sort of trying to belt it a bit I guess and support strong etc but it came out a bit muffled. Thats one of those tendencies I started with that I have to fight....getting a bit "stuck" and muffled when trying to go higher. U can hear it a tiny bit each time I sing the word "mirror" lol

 

"high level". hehe, thats less than 2 years of studying singing....of course singing along with radio for 50 years though

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Yeah but it is high level because you're already doing what 95% of forum dwellers are trying (singing up in the high range). You can make the sounds now you just need to make every detail as good as it can be. I'm still working on some of the skills, but sometimes I'm just listening back to myself singing and maybe changing the shade of vowels and just trying to make it sound more honest and natural. I think there are a lot of people who can sing the pitches but what separates the really good singing is that all the details are there and the singing really portrays the emotions :)

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2 minutes ago, Electric said:

Yeah but it is high level because you're already doing what 95% of forum dwellers are trying (singing up in the high range). You can make the sounds now you just need to make every detail as good as it can be. I'm still working on some of the skills, but sometimes I'm just listening back to myself singing and maybe changing the shade of vowels and just trying to make it sound more honest and natural. I think there are a lot of people who can sing the pitches but what separates the really good singing is that all the details are there and the singing really portrays the emotions :)

yeah its a huge challenge and its never going to be perfect. I always keep in mind that none of my "heroes" sang perfect either. I love some of their stuff but some aint so great.

it gets super complicated, especially with original songs. Lets say i am singing in the car and singing along with VanHalen. Im KILLING it. So im like "ok cool, im going to write something in this style so I can work on my chesty belting". Then by the time u get something written its NOTHING like VanHalen lol.

Also, I just forget stuff all the time. like "wtf was I working on??" Its so hard to really have laser focus on stuff because it IS so complicated

But yeah, ive just been learning to sing pretty clean so far and im juussssttt starting to try to lean into it more but im being pretty careful with it. Its a bit weird because I write rock stuff but so far its been with really clean vox lol

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Yeah writing own stuff doesn't always turn out like the stuff you listen to the most, I find that really interesting.

I always record myself and listen back, and I'm really sensitive to what I like and dislike so sometimes even small details that I hear in myself (like a riff or a vowel shading) can disgust me even if it's not that bad... And then I'm hoping other people will like my taste... It's all about molding the sound into what you want, that's probably where the individuality comes in. Of course technique is the premise so we keep working on that too...

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4 minutes ago, Electric said:

Yeah writing own stuff doesn't always turn out like the stuff you listen to the most, I find that really interesting.

I always record myself and listen back, and I'm really sensitive to what I like and dislike so sometimes even small details that I hear in myself (like a riff or a vowel shading) can disgust me even if it's not that bad... And then I'm hoping other people will like my taste... It's all about molding the sound into what you want, that's probably where the individuality comes in. Of course technique is the premise so we keep working on that too...

yeah it all pretty mysterious in a way. Im always asking people "who do i sound like?" because im trying to get it into some sort of framework. Its starting to get a bit clearer though, what I am and what im not (so far). So far I hear myself being pretty light along the lines of Mark Boals or Goran Edman...not a lot of Layne Staley or even Scott Weiland going on lol

But its weird too with original stuff. its SO freaking hard to write good stuff where u can actually show off what u have to the max. Same with guitar playing.. I guess its all a skill. In general im as surprised as anyone by the end result....whereas id rather be able to hear the finished product a bit more clearly in my head to start with. Maybe if I live to be 300 yrs old ill have that skill lol

Shoot, even this song (IIRC) was SUPPOSED to be sort of an AliceinChains or STP feel. The working title before I had any lyrics etc was 'Alice 106'...which just meant an AIC feel at 106 beats per minute. But as usual I ended up in a higher tessitura than I originally had thought about

Its kind of funny, no matter what, i always just sound like me (like the song said lol)

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