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Need help with Grit/rasp or whatever you call itt ! please

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Frank
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Hi !

I'm in a hard rock band.

I'm singing clean almost everytime, but I discovered that i can put some grit in my voice !

I had some private singing class, but not about this .. does anybody can help me with this ?

Sometimes it hurts sometimes not ... I guess I got the technique 50% of the time, I would like to get a safe way to do it without damaging my vocal chords.

Thanks !

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i'm not a grit, rasp, growl kind of guy, but i know one thing.....those types of phonations are about acting, intention and a relaxed open throat. take those with the throat and you're asking for trouble.

roger kain and mellisa cross cover that kind of stuff.

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I think Melissa Cross is mostly for death metal. Can you name a singer or two who's rasp you'd like to imitate (and use as a starting point to create your own sound)?

Here are some instructionals that I recommend on the subject of rasp: "Raise your voice" by Jamie Vendera, "The 5 secrets of screaming" by Mark Baxter and "Complete vocal technique" (CVT) by Catherine Sadoline. I'm sure there are others out there but these are the ones I own personally and can give comments on. Also, use the search feature on this forum to look for rasp, distortion, grit, etc., to get a LOT of info on this subject.

What I'm doing these days to create distortion is mostly these two things (at the same time):

a) twang to the max without constriction in my throat, and

B) lighten my sound colour slightly (which lowers the soft palate and raises the larynx a bit) until a raspy sound appears.

I'm aware of the fact that there will be an increase in support effort from the diaphragm and abdominal region. I also think slightly "intense" to link the sound to a particular emotion so that in the heat of the moment on stage, such an emotion will bring out a raspy sound. And in my experience, doing rasp in the low and middle part of the voice is a piece of cake compared to in the high part of the voice, especially around the "passagio" or "break area" (about D4-G4 for most men), especially if you do it a lot in your set list and then night after night. I still haven't mastered this but it's my goal to do so and I've already made decent progress.

The most important thing about rasp is that if it hurts, you should stop immedially, take a short break and then try it again after having thought about what you may have done wrong. Most experts on this matter either say that singing raspy can be done perfectly healthy without any damage to your vocal chords or that it can be done with very minimal damage/fatique.

That's all I can think of right now.

Ok, I'll add that it can help to move the back of your tongue up and back and smile a bit wide, to shape your vocal tract for distortion.

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By the way, thank u ! :)

I really like the way that Chad Kroeger (Nickelback) does it , or even Adam Gontier from Three Days Grace,

I've watched Melissa Cross, and it's death metal, i was in a death metal band, i was the screamer, i mastered the fry scream, the death too, except the rasp! lol

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For the Chad Kroeger sound, try this: As you sing a long note in medium volume in the middle of your range, gradually hold your breath more and more and at the same time gradually increase your volume more and more - without constricting your throat and without hurting your throat. Holding back air will keep the volume at medium level but because your trying to increase your volume at the same time (by increasing breath pressure and slightly thickening your vocal folds), the sound will eventually distort.

This is a slightly different type of distortion than the one I mentioned in my first post and many people call it creaking. It's probably more usable in the middle part of the voice while the other one is more usable in the high part. Here I'm doing my best demonstration of those two sound effects about a year ago: http://www.box.net/shared/eknsc0vvh8. The first effect is creaking and may sound slightly like Chad Kroeger or Bon Jovi in the middle and low range. The second effect is distortion and is pretty much your typical high pitched metal scream on a D5 pitch (the D that is a whole step above the male high C).

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Adam Gontier sounds like he may be using a blend of distortion and creaking (they can be combined), but more on the creaking side. Remember that doing this shouldn't hurt. I'm sure some of the other excellent and knowledgable forum members will chime in and give additional input if they have time. Cheers.

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For the Chad Kroeger sound, try this: As you sing a long note in medium volume in the middle of your range, gradually hold your breath more and more and at the same time gradually increase your volume more and more - without constricting your throat and without hurting your throat. Holding back air will keep the volume at medium level but because your trying to increase your volume at the same time (by increasing breath pressure and slightly thickening your vocal folds), the sound will eventually distort.

This is a slightly different type of distortion than the one I mentioned in my first post and many people call it creaking. It's probably more usable in the middle part of the voice while the other one is more usable in the high part. Here I'm doing my best demonstration of those two sound effects about a year ago: http://www.box.net/shared/eknsc0vvh8. The first effect is creaking and may sound slightly like Chad Kroeger or Bon Jovi in the middle and low range. The second effect is distortion and is pretty much your typical high pitched metal scream on a D5 pitch (the D that is a whole step above the male high C).

Damn Jonpall does that sound great! you've got the Chad Kroeger sound down perfectly!

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Frank - I'm currently working that type of sound on a daily basis using the CVT concepts and some of their excersizes. One concept that has really helped me is that the "feel" of the distortion should be higher than your larynx. When I'm successful doing it without straining my chords it feels like it is "above" my chords. Whenever I feel it being uncomfortable it seems to be "lower" in the same region as my chords. This concept is also mentioned in the CVT book. I realized this during a recording session, and if I keep the distortion above the chords it actually sounds better too.

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guitartrek - correct, but for "creaking", it should be felt in the chords, not above them, and I think that's what the Nickleback singer is mostly using. You're talking about "distortion". Those two effects do sound a bit similar to each other, though, so perhaps you'll like distortion better, who knows. But take my word and everyone elses with a grain of salt, though, as most of us are vocal students just like you.

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guitartrek - correct, but for "creaking", it should be felt in the chords, not above them, and I think that's what the Nickleback singer is mostly using. You're talking about "distortion". Those two effects do sound a bit similar to each other, though, so perhaps you'll like distortion better, who knows. But take my word and everyone elses with a grain of salt, though, as most of us are vocal students just like you.

Well I really like Chad's voice. So that's creaking? I think I'm doing a bit of both. I can get Chad's sound starting on an E vowel and it does feel lower - but I was thinking that was unhealthy so I was a little concerned about that. I'm going to have to study up on Creaking in the CVT book and audio examples. This subject is pretty confusing because it involves muscles that are really hard to directly control, at least for me.

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Look up Ron Anderson, he has trained Chad Kroeger, Austin Winkler (Hinder), Jerrod Leto (30 Seconds to Mars) and many others. Ken Tamplin has products that use this technique and he even discusses how to create rasp in Stage 3 (I have all 3 stages). His program can give you a good handle on how to do rasp like Kroeger. I am a big Nickelback fan and always wondered the same thing. So look up Ken Tamplin's technique and training program and you can learn that kind of rasp. You can't rasp on high notes until you've built the voice clean though, so you have to do the hard work before you add the effects, but his program will teach you how to do that as well.

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