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MDEW

Tone, intensity Maybe maybe not

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  This is just to show the difference between my "normal" singing , an idea of the "tongue root" being involved in '"Brightening the sound" or increasing the Higher frequencies. The "SOUND" of a low larynx(Adams Apple). Low Larynx + Tongue root "Brightness" and a HIGH Larynx with perhaps Cricoid Tilt. In that order.  You can check with whatever program you want to see what formant differences there are if any. I do not have a program for that. The last clip surprised me. I did not get closer to the mic or turn up any volume.

 All differences are at the level of the vocal folds. I did not change breathing patterns or intensity. I did not try to change any vowels other than lowering my larynx on the two low larynx examples and the last clip I was using a ""Fat Albert" (Bill Cosby Cartoon from the 70s) coordination which is close to swallowing with a high larynx, closed mouth and flat tongue. Possibly what is called a cricoid tilt also.

  I am not trying to sound good. I am only giving examples. I only tried to sing this a few days ago. This is not to impress anyone. I know the flaws.

 

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On 8/25/2019 at 1:55 AM, MDEW said:

...an idea of the "tongue root" being involved in '"Brightening the sound" or increasing the Higher frequencies...

I find that word "brightening" so confusing! Which part of the clip are you calling the "brighter" sound?

What I am hearing I would call an all round richer sound towards the end of your clip.

I've just been playing around with a bit of the song -- same vein (I don't really know the song, and haven't studied it).

I wanted to see if I could feel action in the tongue root. For me, I couldn't. Mainly, it was resonance shift to and from the mask. Of course the whole timbre is different to yours, but hey why not. There is not one given way to sing anything.

 

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The whole point of the file is the difference in sound and sound quality. It also has to do with another video that was presented in another post. This post taken out of context is a bit confusing. I did not have the time to present the full explanation or make a better recording. I still had to keep quiet because of others in the household.

Even being relatively quiet the difference is marked in brightness and overall fullness when engaging what the initial video calls "Tongue root".   

The first clip is my default tone, My "natural" singing voice which is somewhat thin and Light. The second clip is the added brightness and volume of this "Tongue" movement. The third clip is Lowered larynx which is promoted by most singing instructors with the advice of "Lowering the larynx with the beginning movement of a "Yawn". The Third clip is the Lowered larynx + the tongue movement to add brightness to the Lowered larynx sound. The final clip is the total opposite of what singing instructors advocate, the clip is a high larynx with a somewhat closed mouth.

The point is that I am not purposely changing my breathing as in "adding support" and I am not changing the "Placement" or the sound as in "Singing in the mask" and I am not purposely modifying vowels. And I am not trying to sing louder, I am actually keeping the volume down on account of the other people in the house. The difference is a coordination at the Adams apple level. A coordination, an onset, a position of the adams apple and a few muscles connected to it. Not a change in breathing or a change in the mouth cavity as far as forming vowels go or placement into the mask.

When making this movement and adding brightness you do not get a change in character of the voice like when adding "Twang" "witches cackle" "Quacking like a duck" "Bratty sound" you just get high frequencies and a clarity of tone added to the sound like when you add a tweeter to your speaker system.

And there is no more "Tension" added than you have when using "Twang" "Witches Cackle" "bratty Voice" etc.

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Yes, I dd see the tongue root thread. I was just experimenting wondering whether I could feel if I was doing anything with my tongue root, normally. (Natural reaction to thread) Answer is no.

OK, so you have merged a number of clips up there. I could hear differences.

17 minutes ago, MDEW said:

The final clip is the total opposite of what singing instructors advocate, the clip is a high larynx with a somewhat closed mouth...

Sounded the best to me. Do more of that.. :24:

Seriously, it sounds the fullest (but not the brightest) to me, (although I am not advocating achieving it with a high larynx!)

 

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1 hour ago, kickingtone said:

Yes, I dd see the tongue root thread. I was just experimenting wondering whether I could feel if I was doing anything with my tongue root, normally. (Natural reaction to thread) Answer is no.

OK, so you have merged a number of clips up there. I could hear differences.

Sounded the best to me. Do more of that.. :24:

Seriously, it sounds the fullest (but not the brightest) to me, (although I am not advocating achieving it with a high larynx!)

 

    The last clip I did not add the brightness. And yes it is the best sounding to me also. That was also part of point when replying about singers may not be the best ones to get advice on "How to do things". Michael Trimble may tell you that he is Lowering his larynx, leaning the voice on his chest and supporting with his diaphragm, but he also "Found" the sound by taking lessons from someone who could say "No you do not have it yet." until he made the "Sound" of lowered larynx, leaning the voice and supported sound". When he made the appropriate sound the instructor would say something like "Now you have it" and he would believe that he must be lowering his larynx, supporting and leaning his voice because the instructor told him he was.

     Also, as you have mentioned.... you tried this and did not feel anything. A few of the reasons that I felt something is because I have been doing things and learning to "Feel" the difference between one and another. One of the reasons that I had not improved in singing was the advice of "Tone in the head, Movement in the abs and "NOTHING in the throat" I knew how MOVE muscles in the throat and how to NOT move muscles in the throat. All the changes were supposed to be by "Breath Pressure and Bernoulli effect. 

    The changes in SOUND good or bad are from the larynx, vocal tract and cord position.  Coordinations, onsets, muscle positions and directions of tension. Not excessive tensions but directions of movements or positions of the muscles involved. The same things that cause accents and qualities of sound inherent when speaking while in an emotional state. Calm and relaxed you get one sound. Angry and you get another. Lonely you get another, Happy and joyful yet another. Sad, Depressed, On and on. The SOUND is influenced by the direction of muscle movement within the vocal tract.

    Does support make it so you do not have to engage these muscles as much? Absolutely, but they still influence the sound and are used by the singer to SHAPE his sound.

 

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2 hours ago, MDEW said:

The final clip is the total opposite of what singing instructors advocate, the clip is a high larynx with a somewhat closed mouth.

38 minutes ago, MDEW said:

    The last clip I did not add the brightness. And yes it is the best sounding to me also....

But were you deliberately raising your larynx, or just "letting it be"?

 

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28 minutes ago, kickingtone said:

But were you deliberately raising your larynx, or just "letting it be"?

 

     I mimic cartoon voices. The voice I sang through was of "Fat Albert" from a 70s cartoon. I learned how to make the voice by watching Bill Cosby make the voice. "Yogi Bear" Barney Rubble and The guy from "king of the Hill" all use a low larynx sound to make the voice.

     Mimicking Voices and accents involve watching the person speak and see what the personality is and what type of posture they use and facial expressions. I never used it in singing because "You are supposed to use your natural voice". That is where the BS is. You do not use a "Natural voice" you shape the voice to do what you either need it to do or make the sound you want. I started making progress after realizing that you do not use your "Natural" singing voice. You shape it.

     Part of the other trouble is that you may also use muscles not needed when trying to find a configuration that works. The part of what makes "Witches cackle" work in the voice is not the part that makes you sound like a witch but the part that helps keep your vocal folds together when making sound. 2 different things but both used in "Witches Cackle" and "Twang".

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