Sign in to follow this  
kickingtone

What is motivating people to learn to sing?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

By stating that pitch is such a crucial factor you are using a rule and you even complain that something is getting in the way of you hearing it.

Which rule? State the rule or rules, so that we can be clear what you are saying.

18 minutes ago, Felipe Carvalho said:

And the link to the thread?

Sorry, It was on reddit some while ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kickingtone said:

Just read the comments -- "cringe", "torture", "hilarious", "tone deaf" etc. etc. + a heap of analysis about the keys. That suggests that a lot of "musicians" think it is more than normal "dissonance".

Are you saying that this particular dissonance is common in some forms of music? Why then all the extreme reactions? 

 

     How can a comment section on Youtube suggest they were musicians?  There are a lot of genres that I would describe as cringeworthy. I also know that it is only my taste in music. I have not listened to any particular radio station for more than a few minutes in the last 30 years because I find what is being played as cringeworthy. And that covers most genres at this point in time. 

    A new style that is created and sounds good at first becomes overplayed and annoying to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, MDEW said:

     How can a comment section on Youtube suggest they were musicians?

 

They say so -- "trust me, I am a musician..." -- "as a qualified sound engineer, trust me..." -- "trust me, I do this for a living"...

There doesn't appear to be a "don't trust me" option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, kickingtone said:

They say so -- "trust me, I am a musician..." -- "as a qualified sound engineer, trust me..." -- "trust me, I do this for a living"...

There doesn't appear to be a "don't trust me" option.

They are comments on Youtube to a musical joke that is meant to draw criticism. Almost like a Pavlovian response. 

I only saw a few comments that implicated a musical background from the author.

If he really wanted to make the "Joke" work, he would have sang the whole song in the other key, not just that one note.

     On the other subject about what I find cringeworthy about certain genres is not the style or certain elements, It is the overuse of effects that signify the genre. The songs that started the genre I may find highly enjoyable. Then they started using the elements as a formula. Like mixing well known songs with a reggae beat. One of the first I remember was "Red, Red, Wine'" a Neil Diamond song. That particular mix was pretty cool but then you started getting others mixing songs with Reggae beats. Guess what? They used other Neil Diamond songs...Come on. One was enough. Then they took that Neil Diamond song with the Reggae beat and added Rap to it.....Come on. Leave well enough alone.

        It was not about self expression any more it was about a formula that worked once. To my ears(I know, My own opinion again,) what was unique and special that made the song "Red, red, Wine" work in its original form was lost by the beat and the rapping that did not enhance the meaning of the song.

        It is either an over use of subject matter...Like cars, trucks and Beer for Country....or a particular tone or inflection, example again with country...The southern draw or twang even from people who are from Canada or England or Ireland etc. Then you had someone who would occasionally use melisma or maybe a bit of a growl here and there to enhance a meaningful phrase, to nothing but melisma where the inherent melody is lost because of the vocal theatrics or the growl is continuous throughout the song. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kickingtone said:

lol, I rest my case.

     I'm not sure if the case will ever be rested. When you elicit a response, good or bad, you take notes and incorporate them in future situations. Why the response is the way it is may depend on the immediate situation but it could also be something deeper or a natural response rather than a conditioned response.  

    There are plenty of musical phrases and compositions based on Bird calls. Beethoven's fifth is one example. I do not think that birds have studied musical theory but some of them use it well enough.

    Fingernails scraping a chalkboard makes me cringe, I am not sure if that is a Pavlovian response or not. A bow scraping an out of tune violin gives me the same response. Pavlovian?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, MDEW said:

There are plenty of musical phrases and compositions based on Bird calls. Beethoven's fifth is one example. I do not think that birds have studied musical theory but some of them use it well enough.

That's really stretching it, I think.

(The opening of Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 is an example of stretching things to the limit!)

Birds don't sing in human scales. Musicians may adjust and incorporate the odd couple of characteristic notes, or leave the whole thing "out of tune", as with some nightingale accompaniments. Even the cuckoo's "two notes" are approximated/adjusted in examples that I recall.

But if you do have a good source demonstrating a bird singing "in tune" from any known human perspective, that would be very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, kickingtone said:

That's really stretching it, I think.

(The opening of Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 is an example of stretching things to the limit!)

Birds don't sing in human scales. Musicians may adjust and incorporate the odd couple of characteristic notes, or leave the whole thing "out of tune", as with some nightingale accompaniments. Even the cuckoo's "two notes" are approximated/adjusted in examples that I recall.

But if you do have a good source demonstrating a bird singing "in tune" from any known human perspective, that would be very interesting.

Scales maybe not. Harmonic intervals? yes. In tune with itself? As much as any  average singer.

Intervals that equate to common Musical phrases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000334721200214X

Quote

Comparisons were made based on null model distributions. From 243 comparisons, only six (∼2%) were significantly close to harmonic intervals, suggesting no consistent use of harmonic intervals.

Isn't this the point? Although we may be able to pick out the odd short phrase of birdsong here and there out of the hundreds that exist, and match them to some phrase in the hundreds of well-known musical compositions, that does not mean that the bird is using harmonic intervals.

You would have expected someone by now to have written a "whole" (up to 95 per cent) birdsong by now. Even a dictionary of birdsong in musical notation would probably exist. But all we seem to have is a random collection of coincidences, involving very short phrases.

Playing it by ear, which I am all for, the birdsong I am more familiar with comes from the blackbird, robin, wren, and chaffinch. All of them sound "off" to me, if I listen with human bias. The blackbird has a great timbre, imo, but I definitely remember having to "get used" to its "singing", probably because I had first to subconsciously dismantle the expectations I had. Actually, I now liken the blackbird to an orator, more than a songster, although that may also have to do with the way it imperiously sticks its yellow beak in the air, and pauses between phrases and looks around, as if for effect.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this