Jump to content

Disconnected transition

Rate this topic


D.Starr
 Share

Recommended Posts

Just going through Singing for the stars - Seth Riggs and was doing the Nay Nay Nay exercise and my voice is really disconnected on the way through from chest to head.

The notes sound off and warble and crack. I don't understand how I can possibly learn if I'm disconnecting.

A few posts back I was told I have poor vocal closure, the weird thing is at times I can scale and have no trouble at all connecting my head to my chest etc, but doing these exercises just seems to break up my voice.

What should I do?

- Try another exercise until I become connected?

- Continue to do the same exercise day in day out and try to connect more?

- Carry on through the CD with the disconnected tone and do the CD day in day out for my voice to become connected?

EDIT

Exercise 6 is Nay

Exercise 7 is Mum with a cry, could this cry help me connect?

EDIT 2

The Mum with a cry was horrible. The exercises were Mum, Guh, Go, Gee and Koo. I did find more connection with Koo out of the 5 with a cry.

Reckon I should use this more often in this exercise and develop off it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What should I do?

A) Try another exercise until I become connected?

B) Continue to do the same exercise day in day out and try to connect more?

C) Carry on through the CD with the disconnected tone and do the CD day in day out for my voice to become connected?

D) Post an audio example of me trying to do this and failing so you guys could possibly help in a matter of minutes?

E) All of the above?

The correct answer is D).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since you've told me to record and post I found I'm accessing head a little better.

I have to feel for the sensation in the nasal area but then to me it feels like I'm singing from my nose.

If I continue to sing "up" that is when I break, like I'm still singing from my chest because it becomes breathy and disconnected.

Singing "from the nose" in my terms is kinda more connected than before but not as smooth as I'd like, plus I find it hard to find that balance of switching from mouth to nose if that makes sense.

EDIT

http://www.box.net/shared/319teqitd5

http://www.box.net/shared/gf2kybqvvd

http://www.box.net/shared/hjabdoeacg

http://www.box.net/shared/dff3eioxjd

It also may not help I have a headache and a slight cold/bunged nose.

EDIT 2

Also wanna add that I find air escaping from nose whilst singing. Is this normal or is it moving towards a more nasal tone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The correct answer is D).

d is the answer for me too

and make sure if you're gonna do googs and gugs, which i love, that you stay with that word sung exactly as it sounds

you said "guh," it's not.... it's "goog" and "gug"....the "g" is the help.

you can achieve more success sometimes if you yawn your larynx down as you do that exercise.

also try "hohn" with a yawn configuation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

d is the answer for me too

and make sure if you're gonna do googs and gugs, which i love, that you stay with that word sung exactly as it sounds

you said "guh," it's not.... it's "goog" and "gug"....the "g" is the help.

you can achieve more success sometimes if you yawn your larynx down as you do that exercise.

also try "hohn" with a yawn configuation.

Hmm I'll try play around with that. I've used goog before but seemed to choke on it.

I tried the hohn but have no idea how to pronounce. Pronunciation is a little different in the UK. Not sure if it applies here.

The Guh is how it is in the book. Doesn't say Goog or Gug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm I'll try play around with that. I've used goog before but seemed to choke on it.

I tried the hohn but have no idea how to pronounce. Pronunciation is a little different in the UK. Not sure if it applies here.

The Guh is how it is in the book. Doesn't say Goog or Gug

ah, i see. okay then use "hung" but don't pronouce the "g" i prefer the "h" because of the aspirate onset. focus this tone into the soft palate as you ascend. if you do this right you will feel the voice transition nicely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi D.Starr,

In each of your clips, I'm hearing a severe lack of cord compression. Each is very airy and "let go", even the lip rolls. Would you be able to upload a clip done in a manner that is not lazy? I think that may be where part of the lack of compression is coming from. You seem to be under-energizing everything, which often accompanies a lack of fold closure. At the very tail end of your lazy AAH scale in the last couple of second, however, you started coming into your real chest voice and getting better closure. The voice almost sounds baritonal.

You need more closure, more compression, less airiness, more bite, more oomph, more speech-like quality to your sound. (Basically, all of those words are describing essentially the exact same thing you need to go towards.) Something that might help with that is to just simply do as scale not as if you're going to sing it, but as if you're just going to speak it on pitch. Speak the way you normally would, except on pitch, and when it is announced that you're at your bridge areas, narrow the vowel appropriately. Try this for the MUM or GUG exercise, and post a clip so that we can see what it sounds like.

~~Dante~~

well said dante!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.box.net/shared/l1g69dje1n

I tried the lift up pull back technique by rob lunte but it kinda failed.

I kinda get what you mean about not having vocal closure, I just find it hard working on exercises to develop it because I have the lack of knowledge in that area as well as failing at each attempt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess when going up the notes I'll just let the go of the notes and the hold on the vowel or note or word I'm singin, therefore loosing it and letting it float away.

Trying to concentrate and just sing the vowel in a speech way has kinda helped me find the area I feel to switch to head voice. I can feel a grab but I have to physically swap up into my nasal area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, i see. okay then use "hung" but don't pronouce the "g" i prefer the "h" because of the aspirate onset. focus this tone into the soft palate as you ascend. if you do this right you will feel the voice transition nicely.

If you are disconnected, I'd advise against using aspirate onsets, and stick to the g and k onsets. Also, from personal experience, bad cord closure can be the result of BIG constrictions, forcing, and false/insufficient support (notice how these can be related !). So my best advice here would be to try to add a slight yawn or an inner smile as you sing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard to describe and hard to hear in a recording but I try in the morning (01.50am UK GMT).

But I'll try to describe it. It's like if I stay in "chest" it just falls apart because there's no "grip" but if I add a slight "cry"/"grip", like edge like a vocal cry and can feel it move from breathy and airy to the front of my nose area and moves up nicely into head voice. That's how I try to do sirens when I move up into the head from chest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hard to describe and hard to hear in a recording but I try in the morning (01.50am UK GMT).

But I'll try to describe it. It's like if I stay in "chest" it just falls apart because there's no "grip" but if I add a slight "cry"/"grip", like edge like a vocal cry and can feel it move from breathy and airy to the front of my nose area and moves up nicely into head voice. That's how I try to do sirens when I move up into the head from chest.

D.Starr: Sorry I did not join this thread earlier. Too much going on.

At the moment, I'd say don't worry about whether you feel the sensation of the tone in your nose or elsewhere. Lets get to an exercise that makes the connection more likely, and work with that for a while.

As has been mentioned, for many voice firm cord closure very likely occurs in the mid and mid-low range when someone just 'says' a vowel. For our purposes, medium-soft volume works just fine, and I suggest an /e/ (ay) as as good as any. Take a small breath, and 'say' the vowel clearly 5 times in a row, renewing the breath between each, and sustain the last one. The onset (beginning) of the note should not be aspirate, but neither should it 'pop' open, either. Transpose the exercise accross the range of a 5th... a bit up and a bit down from the starting point.

The purpose of the exercise is multiple: 1) get firm, but easy, cord closure, 2) time the onset and the breath so that they occur together, 3) practice the mental gesture of the onset that produces the clear, easy, medium-soft tone, 4) move the pitch around some.

Perform the exercise for about 10 minutes each day, for 10 days.

By the conclusion of that time, you should be able to do this without as much concentration, as the mental concept of the clear, firm onset, and the vocal response, are getting more consistent. From that point, you can branch out and begin working on your original goal... the connection of this part of your voice to the higher range.

Lets get started!

BTW: Dante... good to see you here. I remember you from 'theVocalist'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let the coordination of the voice happen by the vowel that you use rather than something you have to "switch" into. So if you're doing a MUM, BUH, or GUG, let the vowel go towards the o as in the UK pronunciation of woman. That will take you into the mix of head and chest for the higher range. If you use the syllable GOOG, then it should mix itself. You just focus on keeping it speech-like.

This is a great explanation on how to maintain balance through your transition. Vowels are the key.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I've been working on the exercise Steven mentioned. I still seem to have a leaky valve some where.

I know I can't expect miricals but nothing seems to be progressing, I keep doings Nay, Googs, Mums. Nothing.

I either clench or tense a hold to try and curb or go through my passaggio but either flip or produce an airy tone.

Oh and what is meant by narrowing the vowel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi D. Starr. I understand your frustration, I've been there a lot too. Keep trying and experimenting though, you will get there eventually :-)

I found the following thread on the CVI forum really helpful for finding correct curbing and going through the passagio with it. Look for jonpall's clips of a whining child, and try imitating it. It's really good for getting the correct sensation of what the 'hold' feels like. IMO it doesn't at all feel like holding the breath or clenching something in the throat, which the book says, which is what I was doing for a long time. It's much more gentle than that, but you have to have it there or it won't work.

http://forum.completevocalinstitute.com/viewtopic.php?t=7567

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, I'll take a look and see if this will help more.

I feel like I'm singing too deep at times to the singer if I'm singing along and feel I ain't hitting the same notes. So I go up to where, to more, it sounds like I'm singing on the correct pitch/note and end up choking on the note. But then I think maybe the note they're singing is their "middle" so then I feel crappy coz I can't sing in the correct pitch, but TBH I think I may be a baritone which is not very urban R&B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm obsessed with this guy, his vocal talent is awesome, but his singing just seems so relaxed, in this part anyway.

Watch from 00:00 - 01:05.

I can hear parts that are "constricted" like there's a hold... so it's obviously curbing, but the vowels don't seem to be. Now I've repeatedly tried to sing this part and it's probably because I have bad vocal closure, but I can comfortably sing up to mid way at times. And is that vein meant to be popping up in his neck, to me that shows tensing and straining but his vocals are always consistent and have been since he started out at a young age.

Any suggestions and tips?

Also it to me thats at the edge-ish of my head voice, so that high up seems to be hard to sing.

Recorded some tries.

High - I feel a strain on the high notes near the end, but the beginning is comfortable

http://www.box.net/shared/s3x5excmtv

Low-ish - Close to my speech level, but low compared to the original song I posted (Youtube) I also feel I went too high for the area I was in at the end half of the recording, I guess your hear it.

http://www.box.net/shared/13iafx6fgo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

D Starr - You sound excellent on those clips! You've reall got the feel down! Chris Brown is really good and has great tone and rhythmic control. He locks his jaw every once and a while which is not really what we are supposed to do, but he's so good I can't hold it against him.

To feel more comfortable up in the high range requires the right vowels + practice and training. You can evetually get there yourself by "finding" the right vowels - as Chris may have done - but you can shorten the learning curve with a good teacher or instructional video. The good thing is that you don't sound strained at all, even though it may feel strained. Just remember - if it feels uncomfortable, like you feel a tickle in the cords you are doing something wrong and you need to stop for a little bit and try again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

D Starr - You sound excellent on those clips! You've reall got the feel down! Chris Brown is really good and has great tone and rhythmic control. He locks his jaw every once and a while which is not really what we are supposed to do, but he's so good I can't hold it against him.

To feel more comfortable up in the high range requires the right vowels + practice and training. You can evetually get there yourself by "finding" the right vowels - as Chris may have done - but you can shorten the learning curve with a good teacher or instructional video. The good thing is that you don't sound strained at all, even though it may feel strained. Just remember - if it feels uncomfortable, like you feel a tickle in the cords you are doing something wrong and you need to stop for a little bit and try again.

WOW!! Thank you very much. Yeah I saw your post about Bel Canto and Youtube'd a few videos and found the one where Pavarotti switches the AH to UH in a way.

I'm working with Singing for the stars at the moment, the thing is I don't like the teachers around here. They just don't learn me nothing at all, I know I can't have that view as I'm a learner but they are teaching me things that I already know about and I feel they have me just for the money.

Plus money is very tight so even Skype or internet lessons would be out the question. $ to £ exchange is pretty good but still expensive.

I suppose, practice and patience is the key.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...