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Just found out.. I've got nodules

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akarawd
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My 1st exam was in the UK 15years ago (anesthetic spray, probe through the nose), my vocal folds were clean.

I went to several others in Greece since then and they all monitored my folds through the mouth, gave me videos and they claimed all was well.

The time before the last, I saw sth and asked the doc but she said "it's just phlegm, you're ok"

Today, I wend to this new guy, he's got the best equipment you can get, examined me the same way as the brit doc and there

they were ... four small nodules (2 at the very top and 2 at very bottom of my vocal folds in a symmetrical fashion).

His words were "Thanos, you've had these for many-many years, these weren't created yesterday". It felt like I was thrown into an abyss.

So where do we go from here ? 2-3 months of vocal rest he said, plenty of fluids etc etc but still... he can't guarantee their healing 100%...

I'll be doing a lot of research on my case now but if there's any advice please let me know.

For the next 3 months I plan on keeping quiet for the biggest part of the day (I will allow 1-2 hours of talking in total), drink lots of fluids, liquorice etc but contrary to his advice I WILL do a minute or so of lip bubble sirens.

I'll be talking to myself... a lot ! lol

PS. I'm really grateful for my progress these past 7 months, I've managed more than in 15 years but I came to my senses a little late I guess...

My working 96 hours a week as a language teacher with an air-conditioner in front of me didn't help either...

For you guys starting now, don't strain, don't push and make sure you learn how to properly warm up and especially DOWN before you start singing or screaming... do the groundwork, it pays.

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Sorry to hear that. Keep your chin up; if they are small I believe you are the diligent type person who will figure out the best approach going forward on dong the right therapy rehab. And now that you have such a better understanding of the voice and how it works, your current techniques should be good for your voice.

Wish you the best and keep us posted on your progress!

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Hey, sorry to hear. I hope your recovery is quick and complete. Definitely don't rush the recovery too much, better to have a more intense break with a better recovery than a rushed recovery with lesser results. It seems like if only the very best equipment could see it then they have to be relatively small, so that should be encouraging. How badly have they been affecting your sound? Will you be able to avoid teaching during this time?

From what I understand, very light slides for short periods is the newer recommendation over complete vocal rest. Steam inhalation should also help recovery. I'd recommend picking up a little electric steam inhaler you can put on your desk rather than leaning over the stove. I prefer the Connair brand one on Amazon because it has a metal boiler rather than plastic in the other brands.

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Thanks thruth1ness, I appreciate it.

I really don't know how badly they've been affecting my sound (I'm gathering info about it though) as they've been there for years but

this kinda makes me think that if I manage to get rid of them, I may be able to improve vocally (although I've never been stronger vocally than I am now).

For the time being I am a little hoarse - but then I again I've had a bad spell of flu, so I'm not sure what the cause is (I'd have been hoarse other times since I had them forever but it never happened).

I will be able to avoid teaching for a couple of months due to the summer period, so I'm grateful for that, psychologically I mean.

I've had an electric steam inhaler for months now, it's been a great help no doubt.

I've been told by a friend about the benefits of using head voice in these cases so I'll be researching that some.

I kinda see this an opportunity to start over new, it's just that due to my rapid and solid progress during these past 7 months I had so many dreams (vocally speaking) for this summer,

hell I even managed to get the tone from Vendera's 1st screaming edition with no effort... oh well... it'll all have to wait. I'll have to wait.

Thanks again man,

Thanos

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I went to the e.n.t again to compare my 2010 exam video with this new one and guess what ???

he apologized and said that I DO NOT have nodules just a very-very slight oedema (Reinke's) at the bottom and

really pronounced chondros (like cartilages) at the top which are part of my physiology and look like that because

I exercise my voice more than any regular patients do.

I can't tell you how relieved I feel ! I will send them vids to a couple of prominent e.n.t.s in the USA just to be sure.

There are 2 people I want to thank (apart from all of you forumers who sent me private emails) :

KEN TAMPLIN and MARK BAXTER. I won't go into details but they both helped me free of charge

as soon as I told them. Being a good vocal teacher is one thing, being a real gent and a kind human being is another. I can't thank you enough.

This ordeal was like a punch at the stomach... made me reflect a lot.

Kind Regards,

Thanos

PS. I can upload the 2 laryngoscopy vids for anyone who requests to check them out.

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Great news man. I actually thought the same thing when I saw my first laryngoscopy, the two bumps in the back are the tips of the vocal process, which is the arm of the arytenoid cartilage that holds your vocal cords, but they do look like nodules on my video. Reinke's edema sounds like a strange diagnosis to mix up with nodules. I've read it's almost always caused by smoking and the pictures of it look like the entire length of the cord is largely swollen, and looks nothing like a node. Did your ent also use a strobe to see individual vibrations?

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hat's awesome man... I'm happy for you!!

Thanks Quincy !

Great news man. I actually thought the same thing when I saw my first laryngoscopy, the two bumps in the back are the tips of the vocal process, which is the arm of the arytenoid cartilage that holds your vocal cords, but they do look like nodules on my video. Reinke's edema sounds like a strange diagnosis to mix up with nodules. I've read it's almost always caused by smoking and the pictures of it look like the entire length of the cord is largely swollen, and looks nothing like a node. Did your ent also use a strobe to see individual vibrations?

Thanks truth1ness !

No he didn't but he's getting the strobe in a month or so, so I'll go back and do the full deal.

Strange how these two bumps can be mistaken for nodules... same thing on my video.

About Reinke's edema... I saw the pictures of patients' folds who have it and you're absolutely right...

whatever it is, it is really tiny in my case, just at the very tip of the bottom... I'll report back when I do the strobe exam.

Thanks again guys !

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Cool, a strobe should be helpful. If I were you I'd seek another doctor to do it, though. Just going on your interaction so far, the mistakes you've mentioned like mistaking the arytenoid cartilage for a node and mixing up nodes and reinke's edema make me question if this doctor specializes in voice/singers at all. At the very least, check out this guy's videos on laryngoscopies, they're really helpful for general knowledge and knowing what questions to ask http://www.youtube.com/user/docvox#p/u/20/uOcB1OAlZMI

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Truth1ness, that was a very clear, informative video.

And you're right about the doc, I will use his services for the strobe but I will also look for sbd else.

Thanks a lot man - I appreciate your input very much,

Thanos

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Thanos - we've been in touch offline, I will review your videos tomorrow.

meanwhile, general info: Reinke's edema is where fluid fills in a particular layer of the cords. Yes, very common result of cig smoking, but can be caused by other stresses/problems too. Can be mild or severe. These physiological descriptions (diagnoses) don't correlate precisely to cause.

And YES, "working 96 hours a week as a language teacher with an air-conditioner" is heartbreaking vocal demand!

I'm treating someone in my clinic right now who teaches middle school & loves it. But a colleague got sick, & this teacher was told to cover double classes --75 kids-- in an auditorium, basically yelling all day, for two months. Administrators not only refused to buy a mic, they said that going to the doctor would trigger workers' comp case & put black mark in personnel file! Which is totally illegal advice, but scared the teacher so the throat didnt get looked at for 8 months. YIKES. Voice is taken for granted in so many occupations, we must help each other get smart about self-care!

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My goodness, Joanna, that's a lawsuit in the making.

The companies I have worked for have workman's comp but if it's just a normal injury we often incur in my profession (electrician) we will just as soon go to a private doctor and pay for it with cash or credit card, to avoid raising premiums on injury insurance. For example, recently, I badly sliced my thumb tip on my left hand, requiring 5 stitches. But we paid for it with the company credit card at Primacare. Point being, my employer took care of it.

Thanos, I am so happy and relieved that the problem is relatively "minor." Still, like you said, it can be a kick in the gut and make you do check on yourself. I am even more excited and relieved that you are getting consultations from Joanna, as well as vocal coaches with years in the biz who may have more experience handling these things that some well-meaning doctors who may not deal a lot with singers, especially a singer such as yourself. I do think you are stressing your voice from over-use. I have been a teacher, even for a short while. And my job nowadays has quite a bit of talking on the phone, which can also be anti- good singing because talking on the phone usually requires a softer tone of voice and lower volume, which means I run the risk of whispering, which is absolute murder on the voice. And my work day is no less than 10 hours a day. So, when I do exercise my voice or sing or both, I try to make it more about doing it as correctly as I can for my voice, rather than a specific length of time.

Any way, blessings to you, my twin brother from another mother. The world is a better place because you are in it. In fact, let me "out" you, again, as I kept it a secret for so long.

Back in December, I mentioned an angel who bestowed on me a gift at a time when I wasn't sure where the next meal was coming from. I received a real studio condenser mic, a USB interface, headphones, mic stand, pop filter, mic cable. Well, that angel speaks several languages including his native tongue of Greek. You are the angel, believing in me and my voice. For as long as I live, I will not forget the generosity of spirit and the Texas-sized heart that you have.

Such good memories I have to share, again, the comical image the day it arrived. It was too big for a mailbox or even for the regular mail vehicle to carry without a special trip. So, they left a notice to pick it up at the post office. We live in a very small farming town, one stop sign, five churches. The post office is at the northwest corner of the 4-way stop. I was at work (working temp assignments) and my wife had to pick it up. She has a Pontiac G-5 (2-door), basically a sports car. Trying to fit this box that is 5.5 feet tall. To big to be comfortable with on her drive to work. So, she had to zip back home and wrestle it into the house (my wife is 5' 5.5" tall,) making her almost late for work. Almost. Like I said, it's a sports car and I call her "Granny in the hot rod." (We have a grand-daughter in Oregon.)

One day, I will get a chance to help you or someone else and it will always be my pleasure to do so. "Pay it forward" is not just a movie, it's a way of life.

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Thanos - we've been in touch offline, I will review your videos tomorrow.

meanwhile, general info: Reinke's edema is where fluid fills in a particular layer of the cords. Yes, very common result of cig smoking, but can be caused by other stresses/problems too. Can be mild or severe. These physiological descriptions (diagnoses) don't correlate precisely to cause.

And YES, "working 96 hours a week as a language teacher with an air-conditioner" is heartbreaking vocal demand!

I'm treating someone in my clinic right now who teaches middle school & loves it. But a colleague got sick, & this teacher was told to cover double classes --75 kids-- in an auditorium, basically yelling all day, for two months. Administrators not only refused to buy a mic, they said that going to the doctor would trigger workers' comp case & put black mark in personnel file! Which is totally illegal advice, but scared the teacher so the throat didnt get looked at for 8 months. YIKES. Voice is taken for granted in so many occupations, we must help each other get smart about self-care!

It's great that we can have access to people with your expertise for a reasonable fee Joanna, looking forward to your reply.

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My goodness, Joanna, that's a lawsuit in the making.

The companies I have worked for have workman's comp but if it's just a normal injury we often incur in my profession (electrician) we will just as soon go to a private doctor and pay for it with cash or credit card, to avoid raising premiums on injury insurance. For example, recently, I badly sliced my thumb tip on my left hand, requiring 5 stitches. But we paid for it with the company credit card at Primacare. Point being, my employer took care of it.

Thanos, I am so happy and relieved that the problem is relatively "minor." Still, like you said, it can be a kick in the gut and make you do check on yourself. I am even more excited and relieved that you are getting consultations from Joanna, as well as vocal coaches with years in the biz who may have more experience handling these things that some well-meaning doctors who may not deal a lot with singers, especially a singer such as yourself. I do think you are stressing your voice from over-use. I have been a teacher, even for a short while. And my job nowadays has quite a bit of talking on the phone, which can also be anti- good singing because talking on the phone usually requires a softer tone of voice and lower volume, which means I run the risk of whispering, which is absolute murder on the voice. And my work day is no less than 10 hours a day. So, when I do exercise my voice or sing or both, I try to make it more about doing it as correctly as I can for my voice, rather than a specific length of time.

Any way, blessings to you, my twin brother from another mother. The world is a better place because you are in it. In fact, let me "out" you, again, as I kept it a secret for so long.

Back in December, I mentioned an angel who bestowed on me a gift at a time when I wasn't sure where the next meal was coming from. I received a real studio condenser mic, a USB interface, headphones, mic stand, pop filter, mic cable. Well, that angel speaks several languages including his native tongue of Greek. You are the angel, believing in me and my voice. For as long as I live, I will not forget the generosity of spirit and the Texas-sized heart that you have.

Such good memories I have to share, again, the comical image the day it arrived. It was too big for a mailbox or even for the regular mail vehicle to carry without a special trip. So, they left a notice to pick it up at the post office. We live in a very small farming town, one stop sign, five churches. The post office is at the northwest corner of the 4-way stop. I was at work (working temp assignments) and my wife had to pick it up. She has a Pontiac G-5 (2-door), basically a sports car. Trying to fit this box that is 5.5 feet tall. To big to be comfortable with on her drive to work. So, she had to zip back home and wrestle it into the house (my wife is 5' 5.5" tall,) making her almost late for work. Almost. Like I said, it's a sports car and I call her "Granny in the hot rod." (We have a grand-daughter in Oregon.)

One day, I will get a chance to help you or someone else and it will always be my pleasure to do so. "Pay it forward" is not just a movie, it's a way of life.

Thanks Ron, yeah , being able to get a second opinion from experts on both the medical and the singing side is really a godsend.

..and don't mention it buddy, it's nothing, you're already helping me with your good thoughts - I believe in positive thinking !

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Hey, this is all good news for you thanos, isn't it ? Wish you your dreams come true this summer !

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

When I heard the 1st news I stopped all my singing training but I'll be resuming in the following days, there's so much to be done, so little time!

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I got a 2nd opinion and I think I'm out of the woods as far as nodules are concerned.

However, as it turns out, it is quite probable that I have a less than perfect instrument to

work with but this is another subject... once again a huge "thank you" to Mark Baxter and especially

Ken Tamplin for all his encouragement and help he's given me these past few days.

He showed me in practice that the people who train with him - hell, I've only done an hour - mean a lot

to him and certainly more than money.

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