Jump to content

This BLEW me away..what is this guy doing?

Rate this topic


AboveTenor
 Share

Recommended Posts

He's doing exactly the same things that all the other singers are doing who are considered to have good vocal technique. If you want to sing as well as he does, improve your basic vocal technique in terms of tone and power. Put in the time doing vocal exercises for a few years and you'll get better.

But perhaps you were referring to something specific in that clip? Perhaps how he does the rasp? Or the range?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I've been working on my voice for several years now. So, I'm not new to any of this except maybe the forum :)

My technique is pretty solid, it's getting the tone I want that is very hard. I think I'm in the same boat as most people on this site are, they have the range and power but they haven't reached the sound they want. Getting to make the head voice sound rich and thick to a point where it's an extension of chest is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I've talked with many tenors at my University who agree with that statement. Especially since I want a clear, low larynx, operatic tone. But like Jaime says there are various degrees of full voice, maybe I want to do something that is not possible with my timbre. Even though my favorite rock vocalist is Perry, one reason that I admire Gramm, DeYoung, and Mercury so much is that it's like they're speaking in the upper register. I can hardly sense any trace of headiness at all. I love that shouty, belty, yelling on pitch sound.

But I wouldn't mind adding a little rasp here and there. Do you have any suggestions Jonpall?

Thanks,

AboveTenor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I've been working on my voice for several years now. So, I'm not new to any of this except maybe the forum :)

My technique is pretty solid, it's getting the tone I want that is very hard. I think I'm in the same boat as most people on this site are, they have the range and power but they haven't reached the sound they want. Getting to make the head voice sound rich and thick to a point where it's an extension of chest is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I've talked with many tenors at my University who agree with that statement. Especially since I want a clear, low larynx, operatic tone. ...

AboveTenor: If you want to learn this, there is no mystery. Powerful tenor (or above) male head voice results from the specific combination of breath, laryngeal adjustment, and resonance, resulting from your mental concept,...and reinforced by your sense of body-awareness.

It all starts with this... singing the right vowel.

If you are curious, I will explain more. But, to start, here is a link to a basic article I wrote about this general topic of Operatic top notes in tenor voices. It will set the context for what we discuss about this particular voice.

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profiles/blogs/vocal-ring-and-operatic-tenor

I hope this helps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Outstanding article, Steven. I think you also did a comparison between Jussi Boerling and Luciano Pavarotti. Lucky was producing two harmonics and Jussi was producing 5, I think. And I couldn't help but think of the physical differences between the two. Jussi was short to average height and would have to climb a ladder to look me in the eye. Lucky was nearly my height. It's comical to see his duet with Bryan Adams only because, next to each other, it was like Mutt and Jeff. I'm not sure how much physical structure changes things. Someone once told me I couldn't be a lyric or leggiero tenor because I am so tall. I've also been told I can't be a real tenor because I don't vocalise very well below C3.

Anyway, I know some have stated the differences between Jussi and Lucky was technique and there may be something to that. Lucky was a bit more rock, like Carreras.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I've been working on my voice for several years now. So, I'm not new to any of this except maybe the forum :)

My technique is pretty solid, it's getting the tone I want that is very hard. I think I'm in the same boat as most people on this site are, they have the range and power but they haven't reached the sound they want. Getting to make the head voice sound rich and thick to a point where it's an extension of chest is one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I've talked with many tenors at my University who agree with that statement. Especially since I want a clear, low larynx, operatic tone. But like Jaime says there are various degrees of full voice, maybe I want to do something that is not possible with my timbre. Even though my favorite rock vocalist is Perry, one reason that I admire Gramm, DeYoung, and Mercury so much is that it's like they're speaking in the upper register. I can hardly sense any trace of headiness at all. I love that shouty, belty, yelling on pitch sound.

But I wouldn't mind adding a little rasp here and there. Do you have any suggestions Jonpall?

Thanks,

AboveTenor

above tenor, if you're interested, feel free to call me in the usa?, i am so in tune with what you are wanting, i could taste it!

914-963-8437

many may not agree with all i'm about to say, but singing lou gramm and mercury and all these guys takes (besides what steve and the others are right about) a lot of intestinal fortitude, guts, balls to the wall, fearless, mindset.

for example, when i do a song like "urgent", there simply is no way you're gonna get through that song without having expended serious effort (now explain effort, bob)...it is hard work (now explain work hard, bob) you can't let up from the intensity, not for a minute, or the whole thing drops out from underneath you.

i find now, that i finally have some training under my belt, those songs get very slowly, gradually easier especially when you find the appropriate vowel shade you need for your particular voice and maintain the support to need for that intense sound.

i still contend for most singers, those vocals require requisite strength and stamina, not to mention range regardless of key change i've found a key change won't do too much to diminish the difficulty.

another thing that adds to the difficulty is the tessitura, you really don't get a break on a lot of gramm's and mercury's vocals.

b.t.w., the new singer sings all the foreigner songs really well (albeit a half step down) and sounds more "popish" to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

many may not agree with all i'm about to say, but singing lou gramm and mercury and all these guys takes (besides what steve and the others are right about) a lot of intestinal fortitude, guts, balls to the wall, fearless, mindset.

for example, when i do a song like "urgent", there simply is no way you're gonna get through that song without having expended serious effort (now explain effort, bob)...it is hard work (now explain work hard, bob) you can't let up from the intensity, not for a minute, or the whole thing drops out from underneath you.

In so many words, you've got to be "in it to win it. Go BIG or go home." Total commitment. You can't phone it in or mail it in. Sing it with the intensity and emotion it deserves. The only "magic" button is your will power, providing you have the basics in place.

Which, btw, is how Geoff Tate approaches singing. For him, the only technical aspects are breathing and resonance, which he works on every day but not on a set schedule. On the day of a show, he will start some light head voice in the morning. Practice some middle during the middle of the day, including some of the songs they've added for that tour, then some light chest about an hour before show time.

But he never stops and thinks "I will do an A4 with some edge, there." He sings the note as he feels it that night, with that audience.

The intensity, if I may paraphrase, is commitment to the craft. To use weightlifting as a metaphor, anyone can lift a certain amount of weight in a day. Maybe even a heavy weight, now and then. The "work" is in sticking to a plan of weightlifting (in that world, you have to skip a day to do it properly). That is the work. Not so much the exertion, though exertion is work. But if you really enjoy what you are doing, then it is not so much "work" as it is a passion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AboveTenor - I think you are right about the main thrust of work for the more experienced singers who already have range and volume or power is achieving some particular "tone" or timbre they admire in someone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys for all the replies! Sorry I haven't responded, been working a lot lately.

Steven, thanks for the read! Really enjoyed it.

I'd really like to convince my voice teacher to train me as a tenor, but she says I'm not one and another "baritone" like the others. She did help me get up to F#4 in my chest voice though though "covering" by the use of the vowel "awh!" This is a big improvement as I usually break at an F natural. I really want to show her I can handle the passagio, but I'm afraid to go into my head voice in front of her without it sounding falsetto. I can get that full voice sound in the upper register when I practice alone, but psychologically I can't do it in front of others. Maybe it's because I have to project louder when not singing acapella, and my voice just isn't strong enough to handle it yet without cracking into a headier placement.

Do you recommend when I sing through my break to transition to my head voice around middle C or E4? It's the change between the two registers that makes it so apparent. If people can tell it's not your "regular" voice up there, that is what ruins the illusion so to speak. The good thing is we are experimenting with me singing countertenor now, but as I'm sure you know a lot of the people out there still don't accept it.

Jonpall, thanks I'll check it out!

Bob, thanks I'm glad I'm not alone! I think that clean sound is so much more difficult to achieve than a headier or raspier placement. But it is SO worth it. It's weird because I'm starting to get that sound that I want, but as soon as I go out to karaoke and try a song like "Urgent," it comes out sounding falsetto due to my voice not being able to amplify over the music. And that's the worst feeling in the world :rolleyes:

I think Hansen is a good vocalist but can't replace Gramm just like Pineda is just an imitation of Perry. Anyway I'd like to post some clips to show you what I'm aiming for, if you're interested.

I know I ask all the time but do you have any suggestions on how to upload? Someone recommended YouTube but the audio lags when I playback the recording.

Ron, thanks! I want that tone I admire in some of my favorite singers, it's just so hard trying to find my own voice and sound like myself when doing that. I think my problem is I still haven't accepted the fact that my head voice will never sound exactly like my chest voice as the acoustics and physiology are different. Even as I start to listen to those chesty singers like Gramm and Mercury more, I can now start to sense that change. I think just some people are better at that illusion than others. So I might be practicing for years to achieve that right balance, it's kind of like cooking I guess.

That's why I respect Bjorling and Lanza so much as opera singers. Their voices are a perfect blend of both chest and head resonances. Finding that consistency is key, I believe it's a lifelong journey. We are our biggest critics as individuals, so until I like the way I sound on recording I won't be satisfied :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys for all the replies! Sorry I haven't responded, been working a lot lately.

Steven, thanks for the read! Really enjoyed it.

I'd really like to convince my voice teacher to train me as a tenor, but she says I'm not one and another "baritone" like the others. She did help me get up to F#4 in my chest voice though though "covering" by the use of the vowel "awh!" This is a big improvement as I usually break at an F natural. I really want to show her I can handle the passagio, but I'm afraid to go into my head voice in front of her without it sounding falsetto. I can get that full voice sound in the upper register when I practice alone, but psychologically I can't do it in front of others. Maybe it's because I have to project louder when not singing acapella, and my voice just isn't strong enough to handle it yet without cracking into a headier placement.

Do you recommend when I sing through my break to transition to my head voice around middle C or E4? It's the change between the two registers that makes it so apparent. If people can tell it's not your "regular" voice up there, that is what ruins the illusion so to speak. The good thing is we are experimenting with me singing countertenor now, but as I'm sure you know a lot of the people out there still don't accept it.

Jonpall, thanks I'll check it out!

Bob, thanks I'm glad I'm not alone! I think that clean sound is so much more difficult to achieve than a headier or raspier placement. But it is SO worth it. It's weird because I'm starting to get that sound that I want, but as soon as I go out to karaoke and try a song like "Urgent," it comes out sounding falsetto due to my voice not being able to amplify over the music. And that's the worst feeling in the world :rolleyes:

I think Hansen is a good vocalist but can't replace Gramm just like Pineda is just an imitation of Perry. Anyway I'd like to post some clips to show you what I'm aiming for, if you're interested.

I know I ask all the time but do you have any suggestions on how to upload? Someone recommended YouTube but the audio lags when I playback the recording.

Ron, thanks! I want that tone I admire in some of my favorite singers, it's just so hard trying to find my own voice and sound like myself when doing that. I think my problem is I still haven't accepted the fact that my head voice will never sound exactly like my chest voice as the acoustics and physiology are different. Even as I start to listen to those chesty singers like Gramm and Mercury more, I can now start to sense that change. I think just some people are better at that illusion than others. So I might be practicing for years to achieve that right balance, it's kind of like cooking I guess.

That's why I respect Bjorling and Lanza so much as opera singers. Their voices are a perfect blend of both chest and head resonances. Finding that consistency is key, I believe it's a lifelong journey. We are our biggest critics as individuals, so until I like the way I sound on recording I won't be satisfied :lol:

above tenor, sure, i use box.net to send audio samples. feel free to contact me off line if you want to. whatever you do, don't give up on that sound....you can get it for yourself...it just might (might) take a few years.

i'm a firm believer in taking the chest register up pretty high before handing it over to head register.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ron, thanks! I want that tone I admire in some of my favorite singers, it's just so hard trying to find my own voice and sound like myself when doing that. I think my problem is I still haven't accepted the fact that my head voice will never sound exactly like my chest voice as the acoustics and physiology are different. Even as I start to listen to those chesty singers like Gramm and Mercury more, I can now start to sense that change. I think just some people are better at that illusion than others. So I might be practicing for years to achieve that right balance, it's kind of like cooking I guess.

That's why I respect Bjorling and Lanza so much as opera singers. Their voices are a perfect blend of both chest and head resonances. Finding that consistency is key, I believe it's a lifelong journey. We are our biggest critics as individuals, so until I like the way I sound on recording I won't be satisfied :lol:

Steven Fraser did a spectograph comparison of Bjorling to Pavarotti. Pavarotti had 2, maybe 3 harmonics over the fundamental. Bjorling had at least 5. It was the technique of resonance. And you could hear the difference. Especially if you listen to a piece they both did. "Ingemisco." Pavarotti's was a bit more "rock and roll" with a softer, almost falsetto sound at points in time, whereas Bjorling could make the champagne glasses ring at any pitch.

And yes, singing is mental. And part of that mental process is accepting what is that your voice does. I have said that before and have been branded as "not doing enough with your voice. You are only doing 10 percent of what your voice can do," regardless of the fact that I can hit Bb5 in full voice. That's actually slightly beyond the description for leggiero tenor. But because I don't sound like most of the popular singers and don't have enough "rasp," and am cursed with a light, clean tenor voice, I am "lazy." Also, I am lazy because I haven't bought one of the current, modern singing programs, though I do have a copy of Jaime Vendera's "Raise Your Voice" and have quoted things directly from it and still get told I am not doing enough.

Bygones.

Singing, in a sense, is like playing other instruments. What you hear is not always what it took to create that "note." And it will be an arduous journey to learn what your voice can do and accept that. The physical part is easy. You already have the muscles, you just have to get out of your own way. The hard part is changing your mind. Now, go and write some stuff that your own voice created. And it's okay to be influenced by other people. Roger Daltrey loved the music from T-Rex but sounded nothing like them.

Eddie Van Halen admired the "brown" sound of Eric Clapton and never sounded like him. David Lee Roth admired Al Jolson and ... well ... never mind ... he actually is good at that style.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And yes, singing is mental. And part of that mental process is accepting what is that your voice does. I have said that before and have been branded as "not doing enough with your voice. You are only doing 10 percent of what your voice can do," regardless of the fact that I can hit Bb5 in full voice. That's actually slightly beyond the description for leggiero tenor. But because I don't sound like most of the popular singers and don't have enough "rasp," and am cursed with a light, clean tenor voice, I am "lazy." Also, I am lazy because I haven't bought one of the current, modern singing programs, though I do have a copy of Jaime Vendera's "Raise Your Voice" and have quoted things directly from it and still get told I am not doing enough.

Ron, even though it wasn't me who said these words, I'm pretty sure that the meaning behind them had nothing to do with clean vs. raspy or you not sounding like some other singer - but rather that you could improve your singing in general. Sure, for a lot of people, some songs just don't sound as good without rasp, like certain rock songs. Other people actually dislike rasp (even in rock), so there's room for a variety of styles. Any singer in the world will have some people that don't like his voice. But personally, if many people are telling me the same thing regarding my voice over and over, every now and then, I have to take in consideration that perhaps they have a point. And I think we all should do this.

But the goal would probably be (not just for you but for all singers) to sing with VERY good pitch precision (and not just "good enough"), smooth, easily produced vibrato IF/WHEN desired, and a resonant and very free, relaxed tone. Such a thing comes with listening to what a good vocal coach has to say about your singing and then making up your mind if you agree with the coach or not. Nothing more, nothing less. No hard feelings, only friendship, constructive critique and common love for music. Peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

jonpall, i said it. i'm the culprit....in the immortal words of tony montana (al pacino, scarface) "i'm da bad guy."

ron, you really need to let go of this buddy....you keep regurgitating the same line...why does it bother you so? i was only making a helpful comment...if someone said to me "bob, you need to scale back your intensity" does that mean i have to reinsert their comment in every post thereafter?

if someone told me "your voice is capable of so much more", is that "branding" me as incompetent? no, that's just someone (who might just really like you and really care enough to tell you!) voicing their opinion.

please stop reinserting these "i'd like to say something, but no one agrees with me" statements....drop the "no one agrees with me" part....please!!!!

thank you!...bob

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, you guys are uncomfortable with your own pronouncements being echoed back. Sucks for you. What did you think? That there are no consequences to your actions or words?

Jonpall, if a number of people were telling me that I needed to sound more like Brian Johnson, does that make them right by shear numbers? Yes, that's a straw boss (debating technique) but it still makes a point.

Or, would I not be doing enough unless I am following the path of rasp like you?

All I am doing is reiterating your judgements of me.

Tell me exactly where I hit a wrong note or sang it the wrong way and by what standard. I've never received an exact description of the missing 90 percent of my voice. Details, provide details.

cricket chirp, cricket chirp, cricket chirp ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tell me exactly where I hit a wrong note or sang it the wrong way and by what standard. I've never received an exact description of the missing 90 percent of my voice. Details, provide details.

ron,

it's not about what you sang "wrong."

it's a statement i made based on hearing your voice. you posted recordings of your singing asking for feedback...

my offered feedback (because you asked for it) is that you (in my non-instructor opinion) are not using enough of your voice.

i felt you weren't engaging enough support to make it a little meatier and consistant perhaps?....(i'm trying to remember).

what in that statement implies you sing "wrong?"

why then ask for feedback? just go on the way you are, knowing that you are singing the way you want to. if you happen to disagree with me, that's fine!

who the hell says i'm right?.....lol!!!

now, can we put this to bed once and for all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I accidently wandered back into this thread with the intentions of not re-visiting it.

Lately, due to work, and busy evenings (yesterday evening, my wife and her friend, her friend's long-time favorite ex, and the children of her son's ex-girlfriend (not his children (man, you need a playbook to keep up))) and I went to see "Cowboys and Aliens." (I recommend it it anyone.) So, I haven't had time for a lot of responses.

And, once in a while, instead of a book-length response, I try to follow the advice I stumbled upon at one time, a long time ago. Never pass up the chance to shut the hell up. Now and then, I take my own advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...