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KillerKu
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I realize this isn't a technique post, but I just wanted to say thank you to the admins and fellow members, for having me here even though I don't belong here. I can't sing, I'm in constant pain, I'm suicidal, and still obsessed with singing after 3 years of hell. It's honestly really unhealthy for me to be here.

I originally came here to leave my sob story and leave, but when people tried to help me, I realized I could help some of you too. To anyone I've helped, thank you for letting someone like me help you, to those that tried to help me thank you so much. I know you mean well. I hope somehow some of my dream has rubbed off on you, and you will carry the torch. If you work hard enough at this, please go make something good and don't just toil away trying to make a perfect voice. They don't exist.

But me, after 3 years of this. You go to doctors and either they don't know, don't believe you, don't care, or worse insult you and laugh. I don't believe I'll ever be able to sing or speak without significant pain and the risk of hours long spasm ever again. In order to be as healthy as I can be, I have to accept this. I have to give up the dream, the passion, and the obsession.

This situation has ruined my entire life. I can't even talk to family reliably. I can't lift things reliably without my throat going into spasm. This is not something I can fix, and it's not something that I believe doctors can fix. They can't be 'that' incompetent. I'm sorry. They are telling me that they have never seen this before ever, and I've seen my doctor actually look frightened.

Whatever is going on, I never, ever imagined this would happen to me, and I honestly can't believe I'm still living this hollow pathetic life. Just clinging on, in pain, with my dreams shattered, with my social life completely ruined. Not being able to eat. Everything I've tried, either does nothing or makes it worse, so trying to 'not aggravate' the problem seems my best avenue.

I just wanted to thank everyone for letting me be here, and I hope, that somehow, some way, I've been able to leave a positive impact on you all. I can't be here. I need to 'forget' about singing. I can't seem to get over this loss, after 3 years I can't get over this. I want to sing every day, every hour, but I have to forget about it so I can either do something else or just give up. If I stay here, it's only going to add to the obsession of what I just cannot have.

So take care everyone, and I wish every single one of you the absolute best in achieving whatever it is you want to achieve with your voice. I wish you health, and that no one ever has to experience this ever again.

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killer, i wish you wouldn't go, but i guess you have to do what's right for you.

please, don't give up the fight to find a solution. how about writing to dr. oz or "the doctors." perhaps you can utilize the media for help?

there has got to be someone out there..outside the country perhaps?

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Well you've helped me, Killer, just as an example. You've made me re-evaluate certain things about why I'm doing this in the first place. You sound like a smart person with lots of things to offer, so you leaving ANYTHING is a loss to those you leave behind, be it this forum or your friends at home.

I believe that no man or woman should have to fight a battle like yours ALONE. You need someone on your side, a loved one, a close friend or/and your family doctor. Someone who will drag you half across the world to find the best doctors. Have you checked CunoDante's suggestion? Anyway, I realize that you need to step back a bit and that might actually be healthy but I and many forum members here BELIEVE in you and wish you all the best. You'll be welcomed back to the forum at any time with love, be it tomorrow or after a long time. Again: Hang in there, Killer!

Cheers,

jonpall.

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I just cant imagine how this situation must be for you. I went through a hard time when I found out that the first coach I had did a lousy work with me and needed almost 2 years to get my voice back on track...

Now, to not be able to sing, or even speak, this is hell.

Although I can understand that being connected to this community everyday will not help you in this stage, I do think that you help a lot other people just by saying how important it is to have a professional to guide you in trainning. And even more than that since you do have a good deal of knowledge on the voice.

Dont give up man, there must be a way.

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KillerKu....i dont remember what specialists you've seen, but there has got to be an answer. Dont give up. Your issue is NOT normal, and it is NOT something you have to 'just live with". "Never ever ever give up" -Churchill. Guessing you have done internet research...my mom passed on what is called a 'spasmodic laranyx" to both my sister and I...while i havent had problems with it singing, it does happen at the weirdest of times. throat 'feels' like it just swells up and closes, and sinuses felt the same way the last time it happened too. I was driving, sucking on an elderberry lozenge. Very disturbing. Perhaps video yourself having an attack and show an ENT. Not the ones you've already seen. And one of these attacks shreds my vocal cords. Takes awhile to be able to talk above a whisper. HANG IN THERE.

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I've only been lurking around here a few weeks, but have already learned a lot from you. I don't know how you can figure you don't belong here; well-informed people that are willing to share are always in demand. If the struggle to regain your singing is too painful go through with, I'm in no position to tell you you're wrong, but you're absolutely providing a service by posting here and helping other people improve and maybe knowing that and keeping it up will be cathartic for you. Maybe not. Of course it's up to you, but don't think you don't belong or something like that... that's just crazy and untrue.

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Thank you everyone. I was mentally really having trouble yesterday and I was planning to leave. I think I've decided I'm just going to take a long break instead and hopefully dial things down.

I realized I helped people too much in the critique section to leave them behind. My friend told me that she would really miss her 'teacher,' after I helped her so much singing more comfortably, and would feel really bad if I abandoned her when I could help more.

So long time off instead, while I practice piano and get what's left of my life in order. I just can't throw away but I do need to just find balance.

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I'm really glad you changed your mind. I wrote a post earlier the morning and was about to post it now, so it may sound a little out of context since you changed your mind. But there were some other points I wanted to make and they are still relative to your situation... so I'll post it below anyway.

===================================================================

Killer you should probably step back from this for a while and let your batteries recharge so to speak. You’ve put a ton of your energy and effort in these forums and it’s given us a treasure of unique and insightfulness from your perspective.

You really do have a talent for writing and expressing things with quite a unique angle. Descriptive words flow from you like an open channel! And I felt like you were gaining a lot of inner strength interacting with the community here. You’re a talented guy and as you’ve told us here repeatedly, you should share with the outside world and not lock it away from others to hear… or read in this case.

As for your malady, if I was going through the same thing and felt as desperate and hopeless, I would try something really different. If muscle spasms are causing the unbearable pain to the point you don’t want to aggravate things further, a Catch-22, why not try the Botox therapy? It may be a drawn out “process of elimination”, but when you find the muscle or group of muscles causing the spasm, that would not only give you relief and ability to try other therapies, but should open an insightful door giving you new clues about the root of the problem.

I hope you give it some thought and reconsider your present feelings. Like I said before, we are here for you to support you.

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Yes, Killer, the doctors you have seen so far can incompetent as far as your case is concerned. If it's physical, then it has got be something. It cannot be nothing (sorry for what looks like a double negative.) Period, paragraph, new book. If it is physical, it will be something. You need to find your "Dr. House," whomever he or she may be. He nearly kills the patient trying all the "known suspects." (Yes, I know it's fiction but we're talking about hope, here.) Then, someone says something innocent like "two heads are better than one" and then he finds it was an ectopic pregnancy that got carried away, or some such last-minute, rabbit-out-of-the-hat that the scriptwriters dream up.

Even if it was pyschological, as some of your doctors may secretly think, "there's an app for that," too. I don't think it is psychological. You just haven't found a doctor with a clue, yet. And yes, that can happen. My neighbor had gone to the hospital for some procedure. She is 55. And the chart of an 84 year old man wound up hanging on the end of her bed.

Anyway, get well. And that's an order. On your feet, soldier! The only easy day was yesterday. Accomlish the objective regardless of obstacles.

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Killer its great to hear you arent leaving. :) Hey everybody needs a break now and then. its ok. and after i posted yetserday, i remembered...i DID have an 'attack' during singing once. Took too deep of a breath at the beginning of a song, tried to oversing the PA, added grit to a blusey song when i had never practiced it before that way, larynx spasmed. Spent the entire song coughing, live. voice was toast after that, had to get my sister (keyboardist and song writer) to sing and she wasnt ready. Fortunately, there wasnt anyone left in the audience by then, it was at the end of a 14 hour day in which we, the hosts of the event, played last. it was laaate....but...i do remember that event now. What was your injury again that caused your condition? I apologize...i am kinda short on time most of the time and skim through the articles....

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Actually, Rychemaiden I should sticky here as topics keep derailing when people ask. The honest truth is I don't know what happened for sure, I only know the approximate order things happened in:

1. Felt fine singing for 3 years using my voice I developed from practice. Didn't have the most polished voice, but never had a voice problem.

2. Tried introducing SLS oriented exercises (cry, nya, mum, creaky door, etc) and my voice felt a little strange, 'weirder or tighter than usual' but it wasn't painful. I figured this was normal because I read I was supposed to 'zip up my vocal cords' rather than get louder on my higher notes like before.

3. At this point, since my voice felt a little different, I read a book that claimed the gug exercise was great for getting a healthier, more comfortable speaking voice, and when I tried that for a bit it felt like my voice blew out painfully afterward. I also tried a tongue stretch and heard an audible pop? The problem is I don't remember which happened first, but both were red flags.

4. Increasing pain, tension, now trying to rest my voice to no avail

5. Acute laryngitis, extreme pain. Not talking for about a week.

6. No longer feeling laryngitis gunk, but still feeling pain and dryness in my throat. Trying to rest.

7. Tried to see an ENT, he couldn't see what was wrong.

8. Tried to rehabilitate myself and went to a singing teacher for help, to see if I had really bad technique that was causing me to damage myself. She said as far she could I was pretty good.

9. 24 hour throat spasm that was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life and ended up in the emergency room on morphine, which didn't stop the pain.

10. Tried seeing probably 10 doctors, in escalating expertise. Had multiple speech therapists looking at my cords and giving me advice, with varying results. Nothing but pain (speaking, eating, stress, lifting things), tension, and spasm since. Tried multiple times at recovery, by being very gentle and light but its like I'm screwed up beyond repair now so I live with it as best as I can.

That's as best as I can remember. It may or may not be completely accurate (been 3 years), but it's all I really have to go on. I also had reflux, which my doctor and I believed might have been the problem, but we tried to treat it and it didn't do anything. I'd recommend people get teachers in conjunction with any voice program/books they choose just to be on the safe side.

_____________________________________________________________

Ok and in response to everyone else thanks. My brother wants to have my current doctor recommend a referral to his colleague, who has more experience and expertise and conducts EMG. The reason why we want to do this first, is it's 110 miles away, instead of even further.

Now I'm not mentally well living with this day to day, but when those doctor trips go wrong after traveling that far, or just seeing someone for 10 minutes who says 'dunno,' I get home after 4-5 hours of stress and pain and absolutely want to die. At this point, I just want to rest. I'm so exhausted.

So for now, the break, I'm really taking it. I need a big, big break, and I'm going to take this forum off my bookmarks for awhile, so I don't get tempted to obsess over singing anymore. I'll try to come back and help when I'm ready.

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Killer there is a support group online for people that have disphonia and very weird larynx issues. I believe its voicematters.net. check it out. Also, I am reading The New Voice by ALan Greene and I feel this may actually help me more than anything I have ever seen before. I am 49 and have been singig professionaly since 16. It CAN BE a life long search. Theres always hope and maybe u just haven't found THAT thing yet. As I type this, I am at an ENTs, in the chair waiting to be scoped for recent issues. Don't give up

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Hey Killer, you mentioned Botox treatments before in your earlier threads. Are you continuing to look into that route? Even if you do step back from the forum and singing, don't let up on the search for a solution. I know it can get tiring going from doctor to doctor but keep at it. Best of luck!

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Killer approaches music appreciation the way I do and has many of the same values as I do. He just expresses them in a way that is more amenable than my means of expression. I'm going to miss having that "voice" for a while, pardon the pun.

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Darn Eddie Vedder. I was going to take a break too!

Ok, just to fully cover this for everyone that has asked, about my doctor progress. I won't sugar coat this that every time for the last 5 times I've went, I came very close to killing myself when I returned. Where as if I don't go, I have stability. It's not good stability, but I am not forced to talk this way under vocal cord camera painfully after having a very long stressful trip and facing horrible disappointment.

I honestly don't want to talk anymore. It's painful, it can cause spasms, I think I need to get a personal speech device so I won't have to worry anymore and can communicate safely again. I've been thinking about getting one of those as I type to my family and friends 90+ percent of the time or more as my throat is just too unpredictable and constantly painful. Even then, I worry about the spasms when I go out, which makes it worse with tension. I went to the store today, and being surrounded by people who I cannot talk to, and cashiers who expect me to talk, I managed to get a couple of words out and just had to stop from pain, and she looked at me like.... Nobody gets it. It's not like I can explain it.

I think if I can manage the pain, and possibly the stress, and get a speech device, this would be the best short term solution as I might be less afraid of getting trapped out there with people who want me to talk. The problem is, when I have the stability, I can be in pain, quietly in peace and relax as much as is physically possible with no stress, no pressure, no huge letdowns. But then, nothing happens and I'm stuck.

I have a request for the forum admins, though could you move his thread into the vocal health section? I feel it's out of place here and it makes me feel embarrassed a bit as I wrote it I was in tears and not thinking.

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Killer...wow. I actually do emphazise with you in another odd way...1998 Jan 21. Woke up with incredible pain only on the left side of my body. Spent three years having doctors telling me it was in my head, that my body was 'ageing" "wearing out" and that pain was normal etc. I was 35. They put me on EVERY anti-anxiety/depression drug as somehow that is supposed to help undiagonsed pain. Only made me a zombie at 1/2 the pediatric dose, and the withdrawal...well i understand why some people do the things they have done when they come off of seratonin reuptake inhibitors. Anyway, finally found a neurologist and had a series of epidural injections that fixed the problem. so I do know how it feels when many doctors 'dismiss" you. You feel insane, depressed, and the pain is still there. Want to crawl out of your body. But there IS an answer out there. Somehwere. The site Billy offered may help....CONTINUE to reach out!!!!! Understand that if a doctor gives you the same old response they just arent the right ones and dont KNOW. You are NOT insane, there IS a cure. big E-hug....

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Ok guys. For real I'm going to take off this time. I have to admit the turn things have taken here isn't helping my mental health.

If my voice was really as bad as people here aside from Felipe seem afraid to admit, I'll just take it down and move on with my life. I'll probably never be able to sing or speak reliably again, so to quote my hero: The Dream Is Over.

I honestly can't hear it 'that' out of tune. I know it wasn't perfect, but if it's that bad, then I had no business singing anyway. With guitar, I can play notes, I can bend notes precisely, I can hear pretty well. But I guess with my voice, I thought it wasn't that bad, semi tone out of key kind of bad, like just a little pitchy. I honestly liked the tone. If it's nails on a chalkboard bad.

I've got to move on with my life. Can't cling onto this dream anymore. So logging out. Changing my password. Deleting my email. Etc.

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Just 1 question, i belive the voice responds to your emotional health and to how you think about your voice.

I would try to sort all those things about Myself first, i belive the voice has alot easyer to heal.

Mariah carey crashed her voice, i had an old vocalcoach that Said it was due to her going through à divorce, i belive that those words had alot to it.

Cheers

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Just 1 question, i belive the voice responds to your emotional health and to how you think about your voice.

I would try to sort all those things about Myself first, i belive the voice has alot easyer to heal.

Mariah carey crashed her voice, i had an old vocalcoach that Said it was due to her going through à divorce, i belive that those words had alot to it.

Cheers

exactly. killer needs to lift himself up out of the despondency and move forward. he has a league of supporters!

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Killer, maybe this could be a valuable lesson in how to take your lumps with grace. I saw this great video yesterday... 90 seconds of wisdom that any artist ought to hear!

P.s. - You know it's a good rock & roll interview when something vaguely profound is said and followed by a random "as nietzsche said" to lend it some credibility haha.

Couldn't be more right Raphaels. I'm still leaving, this will be my last post here, but I realized it would do a disservice to others to leave on the note I did.

The dream was dead for about 30 minutes, until I realized if I get my voice back people, it's right back to the dream for me. If my voice can be regained I'll work as hard as I can on regaining and polishing the tonality/pitch I was going for, and writing the best songs I can. What actually inspired me most, was I listened to the songs I didn't show you guys, you know the actual songs I wrote with full composition. I worked really hard at this, and I'm a very talented person who knows a lot about melody, phrasing, rhythm, and harmony (even writing my own vocal harmonies!).

There is not much I can do to help people healthily with here, aside from to suggest, follow your dreams. If you really believe in yourself, don't let anyone, no matter how stubborn, obsessive, or jealous, tell you they are the wrong dreams pursue. Instead, work as hard as you can at them in the manner you most believe in.

What sealed the deal for me: the songs I was writing, required an unconventional voice to convey their meaning and this voice I had in mind fits these songs like a glove. I know how to polish this voice, and if I find a willing teach to help me do so, I'm open minded to this.

Me, if I can get better health wise, I will either find a teacher who shares my goals and will help me in achieving them, or I will go it alone. Either way, I will succeed. And you can too. I'm out now, going to focus on real life now, rather than a forum filled with people and their agendas wanting to argue or debate constantly. My health, my art, my goals. I will succeed.

I've heard the suggestions that my throat problem is emotional or psychological. But I'm also saying going to flat out this is not at it's root, I've woken up from a deep sleep into a spasm at night. Tension, anxiety, stress, makes it worse, but it doesn't cause it. I've had 3 years to know this, so for me that is indisputable proof based on factual evidence. Whatever is mechanically or neurologically going on may be able to be worked on. If anything, crying seems to relieve some of the tension.

If anyone has other health suggestions, feel free to email me. I read it, I don't always know what to say. I'm in this fight to win it people. I'm going to get in contact with my doctors very soon when my brother has free time.

I'm here to tell you people to never give up on your dreams! Never! Exit stage left, back into real life.

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