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Ramon

Eddie Vedder technique

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I think these discussions is kindo funny.

you dont need to bridge to head to sing or scream à C5, just go to your local football game or hockey and youll hear tons pulled high chestnotes up around C5.

À lighter type voice when trained can get up to C5 without bridgeing, and by chestvoice im reffering to the talkingvoice.

And what cvt basicly says is if your gonna do high shouty singing direct the voice towards oh eh have twang then you Will be alright.

Overdrive is just à raffy name to put on something old under the sun.

Heck i can if i want pull chest up to C5 if i just go for it, it's probably not My best sounds or anything im gonna use. But it atleast makes me certain that singers who are more trained Than me can pull it off with musicality and continuity

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You guys might like the sound here (even though the quality isn't great):

http://www.box.com/s/cghhq1c56gug35beoadi

I'm doing full voiced sirens on an Eh (or yay) vowel. I'm using about 90% of my absolute loudest volume. I keep a focus in the soft palate which keeps the twang going, drop the jaw more and more the higher I go (but do it slowly), increase support as I go up (which gets pretty hard because I'm using a lot of volume) and keep a relaxed throat, in particular the tongue.

This is the sound I tend to use live with a rock band, actually. I play around with slight distortion in a couple of spots and increase the starting point of the siren each time.

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Jonpall, I think there is a terminology incompatibility to discuss this...

I think that there is a difference in the way vowel modification and soft palate sensations is approached.

I ve learned it like this: Reference of the head voice as soft palate sensations and feeling of higher resonant focus USING vowel modification to find it.

I think you do it the other way around. Defining the mode as the vowel modification and using resonances and sensations to properly place them.

This is an oversimplification, but am I near it or it has nothing to do with what you are doing?

Which would result in the following:

The sensation you tell us on the soft palate would be defined in our terminology as head voice.

The vowel mod you are using to achieve it would fall into overdrive.

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That last clip was not totally in overdrive, FYI. Just on the lower notes, then on the higher notes I switched into edge (and probably did it better than in my previous overdrive-to-edge single siren). But I don't care that much about what you call it. I've heard many different methods to describe it and I have good understanding of most of them, I think.

Felipe, you're almost correct in your assumptions. A couple of points though:

A) I personally don't necessarily use any one set of terms (like overdrive, curbing, etc.) over another. But when someone asks a question I think now the answer to, I tend to answer with the terms used in the question. So if I sense that the person asking the question is using cvt terms or has some training in it (or TVS or classical or whatever), then I'll tend to phrase my answer with those same terms.

B) You can have a sensation in the soft palate regardless of pitch and volume. So it's not entirely correct so say that head voice and soft palate sensation is the same thing. However, the sensation of your voice "travelling upwards in your head" as the pitch goes higher, is quite often very helpful for singers when they have to sing high notes.

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I think these discussions is kindo funny.

you dont need to bridge to head to sing or scream à C5, just go to your local football game or hockey and youll hear tons pulled high chestnotes up around C5.

À lighter type voice when trained can get up to C5 without bridgeing, and by chestvoice im reffering to the talkingvoice.

And what cvt basicly says is if your gonna do high shouty singing direct the voice towards oh eh have twang then you Will be alright.

Overdrive is just à raffy name to put on something old under the sun.

Heck i can if i want pull chest up to C5 if i just go for it, it's probably not My best sounds or anything im gonna use. But it atleast makes me certain that singers who are more trained Than me can pull it off with musicality and continuity

I'm not saying I don't agree, I occasionally can get up to a nasty B4 this way after a few years of work, but there's also the matter that lighter voices can bridge without training or noticing as they bridge. Tenors have an easier time learning to bridge because lighter chest voices facilitate smooth bridging. I think the only reason that anybody knows how to bridge the passaggio at a shouting volume is because some people do it naturally without trying and everyone else learned from them.

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Tenors have an easier time learning to bridge because lighter chest voices facilitate smooth bridging. I think the only reason that anybody knows how to bridge the passaggio at a shouting volume is because some people do it naturally without trying and everyone else learned from them.

I almost agree with this because I think tenors have something of a different apparatus than a low baritone or bass. (It's that genetics thingy, again.) Tenors still have to bridge and manage breath and learn to resonate. And their own particular construction of cavities and tissue construction will lend them their unique tonality. Because a baritone and a tenor can both sing a C5, but there will sometimes be a tonal difference. Whether it's overtones or how the outer layer of the folds adjust to create a higher pitch. I am not saying that tenors have fuller fold involvement in the higher notes than others. They can be thinning out just as much. But, in some sense, it may feel easier to a tenor, at least subtley.

My opinion and $1.75 will get you a Diet Coke.

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I think that eddie vedder mostly does curbing on his singing!! (in CVT terms) :D (which is, i think, the same as KTVA's glottal compression)

Eddie Vedder sings? I had no idea. I certainly haven't heard him sing. Could you pot a clip of his "singing" ? :)

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He is shouting... Pulling mad chest. He is stressing every muscle in his neck and face to do it. he is a horrible example to follow. Period.

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geran, and what exactly does this information would allow you to do if it were correct?

You understand that the performance he is delivering is not on how he is producing each note, but on the choices regarding melody, dinamics and vowels?

He is darkening vowels, yes. Is this the same as covering? No. Does it makes a difference to his work? Maybe, take a look at his neck when he sings the chorus, this IS damaging, it could be much easier.

But, for me, even though not a technical reference, the man is a monster, the croud is his, the stage is his, and regarding musicianship, simply amazing.

Its not the right question. Its not about how he produces the sound, but the choices of sounds he uses. And in this regard, well, its simply great. Im a fan.

My choices to go after this kind of sonority, would first revolve around the intervals he uses on the melodies, it may sound silly, but its easy to replace a minor with a major progression and simply ruin the pearl jam feel, next would be the carefull use of legatto (which is very important in this "seattle sound"), and then choices of dinamics and a few round vowels to make the "mimic" feeling happen. If you overdo this, it becomes boring.

Would I try to mimic how he pronounces his words, which is the number one thing people seem to remember when they listen to him? Never. The impression can be much stronger if you focus on the strong musical qualities that he has, instead of his accent.

And yet again, I would use covered chest instead of going for head voice to darken the vowels, it would sound wrong otherwise. Its all inside chest range, it can be done safely and it keeps the energy going.

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He sings a ton of stuff below E4, and seldom goes high . I think what I am trying to say is that when he does sing a higher note, he doesn't have any technique and if he were to sin an entire song like that, he'd blow his voice out

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HOLY SHEE!!!!!!! I can't believe some of the comments in this thread. I completely missed this when it was going on. I've personally heard Pearl Jam LIVE more times than I can remember and I can honestly say that Eddie is one of the MOST CONSISTENT ROCK SINGERS I'VE EVER HEARD LIVE!

I'm actually quite stunned that anyone on this forum would hammer on his "technique." Jesus...I would probably get banned if I typed what I actually thought. Wow. Just wow.

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I Personally cant understand a word the guy sings.....sounds like a bunch of random vowels most of the time.

If we are talking about Emotion vs Technique, Aren't enunciation & diction 2 of the most important ingredients of either?

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Vedder's style focuses a lot more on emotion than anything else. He sings straight from the heart.. And deliberately mumbles certain bits of songs.. There are plenty of tracks where each and every word is clear.. Its a choice he makes..

Personally, I am a huge fan, and always will be. For those saying he can't sing higher than a G4.. Listen to Pearl Jam's tribute to the Who - Love Reign O'er Me, and also a track called W.M.A from their album Vs. If that's not enough, I'm not sure what will be! :-)

Cheers

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... Does Eddie Vedder have a technique? :/ Good singer, great song writer and very soulful, but when I seek singers with technique, it wouldn't be Eddie Vedder. Frankly, Eddie Vedder constricts and pulls chest mostly.

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Eddie Vedder is an emotional singer, rather than a technical one. And I agree with Keith. Vedder spends most of time in the baritone range and his high notes are screamy and if he tried sing all the song that high, he would probably wear himself out. As it is, he doesn't sing them all at the top of his range and that is part of the secret of his endurance. As it should be for anyone, regardless of range and tessitura, regardless of technique. Do what it is that your voice can do.

The mumbling is part of the grunge style. I still don't know the lyrics to "smells like teen spirit" by Nirvana. Then, again, I don't think much of Pearl Jam is what I would call grunge, even if that was the outward style. I think of them as a hard rock band.

In the limited series, "Iconoclasts," one gets to see Vedder hanging out with his friend, world-class surfer Laird Hamilton. Vedder surfs to get away from the craziness of the rock world. Hamilton listens to PJ to get himself in the right frame of mind to take on 50 foot waves. Waves so big and fast, you have to be pulled on to them with a jet-ski, because you can't paddle a board fast enough to catch the crest.

But their conversations are philosophical more than technical. You don't learn how Laird finesses his balance and the strategies he uses to assess a wave. It's probably reflex by now, to where he could not explain it. Same with Eddie. You discover nothing about his singing technique and he does not talk about singing technique. And he has two sides.

Being with his friend, he is easy-going, cheerful.

Prepping backstage for a show, he is aloof, guarded, in another world.

Is Eddie damaging himself? I don't know. I made similar comments about Joe Cocker and others "corrected" my misunderstanding.

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The mumbling is part of the grunge style. I still don't know the lyrics to "smells like teen spirit" by Nirvana.

I tried singing Pearl Jam's "Yellow Ledbetter" to the real lyrics and couldn't do it without getting tongue tied. Singing to my own made up nonsensical lyrics that mean nothing is much easier :D

Is Eddie damaging himself? I don't know. I made similar comments about Joe Cocker and others "corrected" my misunderstanding.

Joe Cocker still sounds the same after all these years , I guess it worked out ok for him and his voice.

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Yes, please use this approach and record a pearl jam song, lets see the results.

Felipe, this is not directed at you personally, just gonna use your quote to launch this discussion.

First, let me give everyone my bottom line definition of technique: A sound that is reproducible day after day night after night over the course of a career/lifetime. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

With that said, Eddie has been singing Baba O'Riley(Who cover song) over the past 20 years, so that fits my definition of reproducible sound. I don't care how "pulled or constricted" anyone thinks he is, it is a sound that has been reproduced under LIVE CONDITIONS for 20 years. Good enough for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=421znDHGDAE&feature=related

Eddie uses varying degrees of pure FVF distortion to actual VF during these types of sounds. He typically goes more full distortion on the super high notes which is actually EASIER AND LESS STRESSFUL than adding real tone underneath. Meaning it sounds really cool(to me and many others) but is actually not stressing the true folds AT ALL!!!!

Here is a clip of me doing my best "distorted rock voice" set-up on this song. The melody tops out at C#5

Here's my take: https://www.box.com/s/2fd08fb9b8a83ea62e71

I wasn't trying to sound like Eddie AT ALL. I'm quite literally singing in a supported set-up that involves extreme twang, closed nasal port for bit darker sound, false vocal fold involvement with solid connected voice underneath. It is reproducible for me NOW....but it took A LOT OF HARD WORK TO GET THIS SOUND!!!! If I wasn't producing this in a healthy manner, I wouldn't last more than a song or two(I know because I used to force the shit out of my voice to get something similar.)

On the flip side, here is a more traditional PJ ballad, Elderly Woman blah bla.....

There are countless Youtubes floating around just grabbed the first one:

Starting at 2:07

Here's my take: https://www.box.com/s/91f6e2f5df997308a97b

I chose this song because it has full/chesty/mixed EE vowel(I) on a G4 which is very difficult without balance to the voice. I am speaking from experience because that note used to KILL me when I sang this song years ago. I used to dread that "easy" G4.

Anyways...that's all the blow-hardery I have in me for now :) Not sure if this will make any sense so I may end up editing it a bit. Just finally got time to respond today, so trying to get as much in as possible.

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And Tommy and Analog, such was the comments directed to my posts about Joe Cocker. Point being, he's been doing it all these years and can still do it. I would add the proviso that not everyone can do it, nor should they, though they can be inspired by the sound and the emotion.

For example, when I sing "Stairway to Heaven," I do the last high note 1/2 an octave higher than Plant on a centered note, where as he ended it 1/4 tone flat with rasp. But I sing it with the same emotion and intent, if that makes any sense. It doesn't mean I am a better singer because I sing it an 1/2 octave higher and clean. It just means I get what he means with the song and do it my own way. And yes, I can reproduce the sound every day.

And maybe what Vedder does is reproducible for him. To where trying to produce a clean tone like I can do would wear him out and mess things up. I totally get that.

That's one of the reasons I backed away from discussions, especially on distortion. I can't do what other voices do. So I don't. Which, according to some, means I am not "doing enough with my voice." But if I can still do what I do 20 or 30 years from now, have I done enough with my voice?

Hopefully so.

I have feeling that one of the reasons Vedder didn't talk as much about his singing technique as Hamilton talked about surfing is because Vedder doesn't think in tech terms and would not be able to care less about our discussions. He just does what he does and as long as he can do it, all is good, for him.

The sound he makes fits with the music of PJ. Maybe he's not a technically perfect singer and probably makes plenty of voice coaches cringe in horror, but he's also got some platinum albums. I don't even have one album, even though I can sing cleaner and higher than he can.

In the end, it's what the audience buys.

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Is it possible that perhaps Vedder started out with no formal training or knowledge of technique and that perhaps at some point (maybe in the late 90's early 2000's) he went to see a voice coach to help him learn to do things a little less strenuously than he had been doing them before? Often-times singers will do this because they encounter strain and fatigue after doing unhealthy things for so many years and need to re-learn to use their voice in order to continue performing.

He doesn't sound as strained on Baba O'Reilly in 2003 as he does on that video from 1992. That said, his rendition of it does absolutely nothing for me other than make me think about how his vocals pale in comparison to Roger Daltrey's.

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