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how to sing higher for the average baritone?


rfcorange

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thank you guys so much for all the help

obviously a lot of the terminology is still very foreign to me, but im leaning very strongly towards getting four pillars and maybe the package with the 3 online skype lessons.

rob, i added you on skype, hopefully you can help me answer a few questions about the program (i couldnt find a PM function on the forum) thanks!

again, thank you all for helping me out, i really appreciate it. im really looking forward to learning with you guys and being a member of this community!

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Sun - I first was able to reach into my head voice from reading about doing "ng" on this forum in the fall of 2009. I was amazed and started to sing songs I never could sing before. At that point I was able to get up to about E5. Then I started really working on it, and through the course of about 4 weeks reached up to about Ab5 if I remember correctly. After probably 6 or 9 months I was up to C6. At that point though I couldn't produce a vibrato past about G5. Above that I was too tight. And I did easily crack if things weren't just right - air pressure, vowel, too much TA, folds not thin enough, etc. For the last year I've worked on smoothing out C5 through C6 in terms of no cracking and vibrato on every note. I'm at the point where I hardly ever crack up there and I can produce vibrato all the way up to C6.

The summer of 2010 (within a year after expanding my range) I was recording stuff like Carry On My Wayward Son and The Wall - up to C5. Earlier last year I recorded Dont Stop Believin - with ending up to E5 - but didnt sound or feel that great. I recently re-recorded the ending up to G#5 and it felt great. G#5 is about the highest I've gone in an actual song.

So about 9 months to gain all that range up to C6, but 1.5 years to smooth it all out. I would say an average of 1 hour a day is all the time I could afford to spend practicing.

Thanks, it helps with some perspective...

I am working on letting the folds thin and have had some success being able to not strain up to around A4-B4 but I'm still using too much TA and so I hit a roof around here and it's a bit unpredictable.

The NG siren is actually the thing I'm really trying to "get" now to get into proper head voice, but I am having some difficulties. I can't seem to get past the passagio doing NG. I can't seem to stay connected while doing this without pushing, and pushing leads to a roof and I'm avoiding this. I think I'm around the corner to finding it though with my progress doing arpeggio exercises. Did you have any similar issues or did it work off the bat for you?

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The NG siren is actually the thing I'm really trying to "get" now to get into proper head voice, but I am having some difficulties. I can't seem to get past the passagio doing NG. I can't seem to stay connected while doing this without pushing, and pushing leads to a roof and I'm avoiding this. I think I'm around the corner to finding it though with my progress doing arpeggio exercises. Did you have any similar issues or did it work off the bat for you?

You might want to try some more semi-occluded vocal tract sounds as they're called, such as lip bubbles, tongue trills, vocalising through a straw, buzzing with a fricative consonant such as v or z (like a bee); or humming can work but is actually challenging to do well. These sounds are good because A) they exert a back pressure on the vocal folds allowing them to relax a little and operate more easily and B) they force you to use your air better.

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Sun - I had similar problems. Too much TA going up, and folds too thick to go up easily. What did it for me was when I tried Don't Stop Believin and realized my heavy belting upper range didn't really sound right on the beginning of that song. The two things that really helped me lighten up were Tamplin's Chest to Head bridging exercises and CVT's Neutral exercises. A couple weeks of doing those helped emensily. And I continue to do those every day as part of my warm up. Also, Lip rolls and "ng" are my two primary warmups. The trickiest part is to throttle down TA very gradually while letting CT take control. For me that occurs at around A4 or Bb4. It's a very fine muscle coordination that is awkward at first. You need the exact amount of breath pressure under the folds to maintain the depth of vibration during this.

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Sun - I had similar problems. Too much TA going up, and folds too thick to go up easily. What did it for me was when I tried Don't Stop Believin and realized my heavy belting upper range didn't really sound right on the beginning of that song. The two things that really helped me lighten up were Tamplin's Chest to Head bridging exercises and CVT's Neutral exercises. A couple weeks of doing those helped emensily. And I continue to do those every day as part of my warm up. Also, Lip rolls and "ng" are my two primary warmups. The trickiest part is to throttle down TA very gradually while letting CT take control. For me that occurs at around A4 or Bb4. It's a very fine muscle coordination that is awkward at first. You need the exact amount of breath pressure under the folds to maintain the depth of vibration during this.

This, exactly.

Add this, though. You can't do this until you get your vocal tract to relax. That was my biggest barrier, and once it clicked for me, all this stuff started to become clear.

For me, falsetto exercises were/are really important in learning to relax my face, tongue, and throat. I use lots of descending 5ths, staying in falsetto all the way down. When doing ascending exercises, I'll focus on staying relaxed, keeping an open throat, supporting from the lower abs, and letting my voice break if it wants to break. Eventually, if you keep your throat relaxed and learn to control the amount of air with you body, not the throat, you won't break. The higher you go, the finer your control has to be over the breath pressure.

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This is good. I advocate vowel modifications through the Passagio on slow ascending and defending sirens. Also, to work on your onsets... all of this maneuvering thought the passaggio is hampered and and handicapped if you do not build a perfect onset package with embouchure and intrinsic anchoring in place from the start. Any school's approach can be practiced on slow and controlled sirens.

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For me, falsetto exercises were/are really important in learning to relax my face, tongue, and throat. I use lots of descending 5ths, staying in falsetto all the way down. When doing ascending exercises, I'll focus on staying relaxed, keeping an open throat, supporting from the lower abs, and letting my voice break if it wants to break. Eventually, if you keep your throat relaxed and learn to control the amount of air with you body, not the throat, you won't break. The higher you go, the finer your control has to be over the breath pressure.

And the clouds part, the heavens open up, the sun shines, and the angels sing "Aaaaaaa-meeehhhhn!"

And, for what it is worth, though I know it's a dead horse, Robert really does allow quite a bit of latitude. Most often in this forum, I see things discussed in terms of CVT. Only one person really discusses in terms of KTVA. A fairly good representation of classical technique ( and I don't mean myself, there are many here way more qualified than I to speak on that.) A smattering of 4 Pillars talk. So, even Robert's increased presence and visibility of his program is still outweighed in number of posts by the others systems. Which is cool. For I have been to the CVI forum and over there, they don't talk about other systems, only CVT, though there is no rule against discussing other systems. Not sure what that means and don't really care. I think the admins over there are aces.

I wondered why until I got my hands on some 4 Pillars thanks to Robert. I haven't found much of anything left to chance or question. And that is not a slam on other systems, either. It's just that, at least for me, I "get" it. The first time, usually. Which doesn't make me the best singer. I still work on things. And if I did have a question, the answer is a phone call away.

That might explain why there is not a lot of talk in terms of 4 Pillars in the forum. Darn it, I sound like another 4 Pillars testimonial. Oh well, I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way ...

(what movie is that from? hint: it's animated.)

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That might explain why there is not a lot of talk in terms of 4 Pillars in the forum. Darn it, I sound like another 4 Pillars testimonial. Oh well, I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way ...

(what movie is that from? hint: it's animated.)

ronws: A quote from Jessica Rabbit, 'wife' of Roger. :-)

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ronws: A quote from Jessica Rabbit, 'wife' of Roger. :-)

You are correct, Sir!

I'd give you more points but I'm not sure how many points this forum can handle ... :D

They've probably had to increase the limit, just for you.

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Sun - I had similar problems. Too much TA going up, and folds too thick to go up easily. What did it for me was when I tried Don't Stop Believin and realized my heavy belting upper range didn't really sound right on the beginning of that song. The two things that really helped me lighten up were Tamplin's Chest to Head bridging exercises and CVT's Neutral exercises. A couple weeks of doing those helped emensily. And I continue to do those every day as part of my warm up. Also, Lip rolls and "ng" are my two primary warmups. The trickiest part is to throttle down TA very gradually while letting CT take control. For me that occurs at around A4 or Bb4. It's a very fine muscle coordination that is awkward at first. You need the exact amount of breath pressure under the folds to maintain the depth of vibration during this.

It's very interesting that you say A4 or Bb4 because I'm practising curbing and right now, I'm topping out at A4 or Bb4 even though I have gotten B4 through C#5 on rare occasions but not often. Approaching Bb4 I feel my voice getting heavy again, a bit like pulling chest at the passaggio so it makes sense for there to be another shift or something at these notes. The few times I've reached C5 I think I had to push a little.

I think I was doing the ng-siren wrong because I thought it was supposed to be done in curbing, while now I think it's supposed to be done in neutral which I can do quietly without cracking.

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