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Can a Male Baritone Go Past G4? Please Help! :)

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Calibrating vowels, mass and placements, with cool, "catchy" terms...

Yes, I suppose that's true. For me, it was helpful to have it all laid out in an easy to memorize form (catchy can help!). My previous SLS teachers used to confuse me a lot, for example by telling me to modify a vowel here and there, but with no apparent rhyme or reason behind it. I wanted a theory, but what I was getting instead was random advice with no context.

Brenden, I checked out your web site. You are one bright dude! I'm a big fan of pop cosmology myself. Big fan of Carl Sagan and all those guys that try to make the cosmos easier to understand for dummies. Read all the books. Very impressive.

Thanks for the compliment Rob! Carl Sagan is cool and his books influenced me a lot as an undergrad.

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support, support, support, is the key for me to the powerful, full voiced high notes.

It is a very important component.

the sensation of tilting the back of the soft palate down and pinning the larynx to it.

This is the kind of pedagogy that does no good to me. I can't possibly imagine what it feels like to do such a thing. Most likely if I tried to do that, I would contract random muscles in my throat with no benefit.

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Even if you are a baritone, and I really dont think thats the case since you can sing G4 in CHEST, baritones have a defined tessitura, not range. Range is usually much larger.

So dont worry, study and it will happen. You are simply trying to do something that you dont have the means, yet.

GL!

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See, Keith, I knew 4 Pillars would be perfect for you and I really am glad that you were able to get it, finally.

Something I read that made a lot of sense. The resonating space for a particular note is a certain size, regardless of the bottom of whatever voice. And that is why a baritone can sing a tenor note. First, create the note. Second, get out of the way and let it get to the resonating space that doubles its amplitude, creating the usable volume. Otherwise, Geoff Tate would simply be a theoretical being. Yet, there he is, singing tenor stuff with essentially a baritone voice. Going from "Silent Lucidity" to "Queen of the Ryche." Or vice versa. Anyway, it can be done.

Peace, ya'll.

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this is just how it feels to me when i sing. frisell helped me relate to this when i read it in his book. it not suggesting anyone shoot to feel this or even that it's right.

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I am a high baritone who just wish that I had a higher chest "peak", but at A4 it peaks and in order not to fatigue my voice within moments I have to resort to overdrive if I want to go higher.. However, overdrive is shouty = deal breaker.. So I end up pushing chest to C5 at times which sounds AWESOME but is tremendously bad for the voice :c

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I lol'd so hard cos I know exactly what you mean sensation wise, but if I didnt this would sound like total bollocks. This is basically just having a completely open throat and a tilted larynx

yes, but i feel like something is clamped together as well.

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New guy here. I don't know a lot of the terminology you guys are using but it's still interesting. I have only recently graduated from the shower and fronting a classic metal tribute band. I have been a guitar player for years but always wanted to sing. I started with country because my speaking voice is low and it came more naturally. I know I may get a bunch of crap about it but my goal is to be able pull off Guns N Roses songs. I can't tell you what my range is only that I sing Ozzy songs in full voice quite comfortably. We tune a half step down and I can do The Trooper by Iron Maiden but not in full voice I have to bring it up a little. I have noticed improvement when doing exercises and light practice and I never push to the point of discomfort. I have noticed though at full rehearsal I'm blown out by the end of the second set. Is this likely an endurance problem meaning I need to practice more? So to steer back to the topic. I speak bassy but I want to hit that F#5 as easily as I could pick it.

:cool:

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if you are wasted going into the second set, that's cause for concern. possibly are you are singing undersupported and/or with too much throat involvement.

look, if you are fronting a band that's a huge resposibility. why not just start with some voice lessons?

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Yea I didn't do much warming up last night. I did not even consider that. I usually have a little warm up time ritual, scales, lip rolls, vocalization stretching, and then i will sing through a couple songs that sweep through my usable range. I use an IEM even at practice because I've learned how much more effective I am singing at a conversational volume rather than yelling and screaming. I noticed today at lunch (I do scales and exercises at lunch) that I can go from F2 to B3 then there is a break. I have learned to smooth that break and I have full volume but a little less resonance. Then at F4 I break again but can't seem to smooth that one over I have to shift a gear.

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Here's someone who was classed as a baritone in college. And he is getting above G4 and singing a C5. It sounds chesty but it is headvoice up there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opXcKwFgawI

I have to say, this video is about 5-6 years old. It does demonstrate good head voice work, but I am a much more mature singer and voice coach today then when this video was made... Just wanted people to know this is a bit dated...

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I have to say, this video is about 5-6 years old. It does demonstrate good head voice work, but I am a much more mature singer and voice coach today then when this video was made... Just wanted people to know this is a bit dated...

Holy crap! Never heard Rob go Super Sonic on us before! Nice!

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Yeah Robert, I know I keep dragging this thing out but this was a performance, all on its own. Yeah, it can be used as an object lesson for many reasons. But it's just a really good song and you do it really well.

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I would recommend you all, baritone dudes, to chill out a bit! I am a tenor and we tenors are not that DIFFERENT from you, sexy voiced baritones! In my opinion, your voices are the best! They have the greatest overtones, rich sound and everything... You should not suffer from stories like being limited via having the baritone timbre. That's stupid. My break starts at G4= A4 somewhere over there, not sure still. It is just that somehow, mother nature has chosen to give us a bit lighter voice, which we can ..mix? or how dou you call it, combine with our head and chest at the same time, and sing easily. While you have that rich tone, very beautiful dark color (weight ?) that you have to get rid of (or somehow make lighter ) in order to sing easily above your break spots (like u mentioned G4 ...). No needs to worry, with the needed practise you are ready to go. To give you a little secret.. after time you will even be able to sing easier than a tenor, cause you will have that support and great stability from your deep and powerful voice, whereas the tenor voice needs power, needs that chesty sound to make the high notes more falsetto-less sounding and more full voice. :):) I have a lot of baritone friends that always keep asking me questions.. but I am not sure how I do the singing. I never break, I mean, I somehow just sing.. lol. I used to break at A4 when I could not quite sing, but now I think Im doing it pretty good. Last time I remember singing Adam Lambert's Never close our eyes and Stargazer (dream theater's version since LaBrie is more like my voice, Dio is too crazy good for me)

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I would recommend you all, baritone dudes, to chill out a bit! I am a tenor and we tenors are not that DIFFERENT from you, sexy voiced baritones! In my opinion, your voices are the best! They have the greatest overtones, rich sound and everything... You should not suffer from stories like being limited via having the baritone timbre. That's stupid. My break starts at G4= A4 somewhere over there, not sure still. It is just that somehow, mother nature has chosen to give us a bit lighter voice, which we can ..mix? or how dou you call it, combine with our head and chest at the same time, and sing easily. While you have that rich tone, very beautiful dark color (weight ?) that you have to get rid of (or somehow make lighter ) in order to sing easily above your break spots (like u mentioned G4 ...). No needs to worry, with the needed practise you are ready to go. To give you a little secret.. after time you will even be able to sing easier than a tenor, cause you will have that support and great stability from your deep and powerful voice, whereas the tenor voice needs power, needs that chesty sound to make the high notes more falsetto-less sounding and more full voice. :):) I have a lot of baritone friends that always keep asking me questions.. but I am not sure how I do the singing. I never break, I mean, I somehow just sing.. lol. I used to break at A4 when I could not quite sing, but now I think Im doing it pretty good. Last time I remember singing Adam Lambert's Never close our eyes and Stargazer (dream theater's version since LaBrie is more like my voice, Dio is too crazy good for me)

Sounds like you have a great voice. It would be nice to hear a sample? Do you have recording of one of these songs?

Even a live one? In fact, I like those the best because they are not "mastered" and worked over for weeks. Just you, the band, and a rowdy crowd.

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Thank you for the compliment, though I might not be sure whether you're right or not. Sure, my band members promised to upload on to youtube some videos that we did at last gig. If Im not mistaken, the songs will be Europe's final countdown( a very interesting and powerful song), Can't let you go (Rainbow) and Toto's - Hold the line.

I hope you enjoy them! To be honest, the oldest video I have on youtube is when I sang live with my choir (I am the solo singer). It was a year ago. That's when I said that I used to break around A4 or something. Though all my teachers knew I was a tenor, then just didnt want me to strain or to exhaust my voice, saying that I was not ready to pull of them notes yet. So.. I am posting this current vid (for it's the only one I have for now.. a year ago :) ) .

So after that, I spend a whole year training, singing somehow .. and to mention it (cause I think it is somewhat an important factor), I grew up! Maybe that is what made my voice better, cause the break somehow removed itself, I started singing Adam Lambert, Bruno Mars, and it is good. Sure, it may not be that easy, but hey! Im doing it..

And my band like me, they are very very nice dudes, they are really tallanted and want to do music for the future. They improve and I'd say they are very good. All of the instrumentalists can sing! So we are lke doing lots of queen songs too. Last time Bohemian Rhapsody rocked the hell of the concert! So.. here is the vid, I promise to upload some of my singing and maybe ... give examples of stuff? Not that Im saying im great, just maybe it will help you guys. :))) I find this forum very useful and great! Btw, after that year I mentioned passed(during my training), I discovered Lunte's lessons, Bret Manning's , and when I watched them i was like "HEEY, THAT'S exactly what I did! Thats how Im doing it!" and it was really surprising, cause I was happy that somehow on my own, I did find those spots in my voice, making it strong and quite great. We will be singing at ST. valentines day and I will be performing Dream theater's Wither,Adam Lamberts Better than I know myself and Hello from Lionel Richie. Just that some ppl from the city invited me to sing for the event. If you are interested, I will post some of the stuff too, if I find a proper cameraman! :))) Cheers

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Im a baritone I think by Classical standards or a high lyric baritone. But when you learn to bridge and connect and build the musculature for singing through the bridge, these classical voice classifications have limited relevance. With a lot of work, you can transform your vocal tract to build a tenor voice for yourself with a pretty high degree of accuracy and satisfaction.

I envy lyric tenors a little bit. I admit it, many of us baritones do, but I have heard tenors say they wish they had some bottom end.

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Im a baritone I think by Classical standards or a high lyric baritone. But when you learn to bridge and connect and build the musculature for singing through the bridge, these classical voice classifications have limited relevance. With a lot of work, you can transform your vocal tract to build a tenor voice for yourself with a pretty high degree of accuracy and satisfaction.

I envy lyric tenors a little bit. I admit it, many of us baritones do, but I have heard tenors say they wish they had some bottom end.

You should not. You have a very great sounding lyric baritone voice. I am not even sure if you have that many low notes, your voice seems to be kind of light at the top. I like it very much, though as you explained it here (and in many of your videos),it's somehow easier for us to connect, than to you. My lowest note that I can sing without pushing it hard, or struggling is C3, maybe I can hit the B below it sometimes, but it sounds airy and it sucks really. Though, when I started singing, I sang the low notes really great, with lots of rich tone, now I cannot :(

I tried to sing Can't help falling in love, which is an amazing song, for my girlfriend, I just cannot sustain and sing the lowest (and most beautiful parts) of the song.. Any advice how to do so?

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If that's you singing, you are quite good, indeed. I'm one of those tenor guys who envies the bottom end some baritones have. Even as many of these baritones can sing just about every note in my range. Like you, the bottom end of my artistic range is C3 but the power is in the high end.)

Difference is, for years, I tried to get more baritonic. I was trying to speak low and sing low. So, when people tell me I can't get some really low notes because I have not "worked" at it enough, I tend to discount that based on their misunderstandings.

So, I gave up on the baritone sounds and a few songs that I would be better off not doing, at least in the original key with the original melody line. And that alone, did wonders for me. And I most often receive envy from others who still struggle with the high notes. They discount my experience, my uniqueness, especially by discounting their own.

There has been a few times I have been so tempted to cover "Silent Lucidity," knowing that I am going to fail epically. Part of me wants to do it for the epic failure, for that would bring comedy, I think. I would risk my "singer points" for the sake of a laugh.

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If that's you singing, you are quite good, indeed. I'm one of those tenor guys who envies the bottom end some baritones have. Even as many of these baritones can sing just about every note in my range. Like you, the bottom end of my artistic range is C3 but the power is in the high end.)

Difference is, for years, I tried to get more baritonic. I was trying to speak low and sing low. So, when people tell me I can't get some really low notes because I have not "worked" at it enough, I tend to discount that based on their misunderstandings.

So, I gave up on the baritone sounds and a few songs that I would be better off not doing, at least in the original key with the original melody line. And that alone, did wonders for me. And I most often receive envy from others who still struggle with the high notes. They discount my experience, my uniqueness, especially by discounting their own.

There has been a few times I have been so tempted to cover "Silent Lucidity," knowing that I am going to fail epically. Part of me wants to do it for the epic failure, for that would bring comedy, I think. I would risk my "singer points" for the sake of a laugh.

Thank you. Of course that is me, haha, has the same name on the youtube name:) And, to repeat it, it was like a year+ when I done this live with my choir.. haha, funny times.

Actually there are dozens of ways to enter that chesty lower register, though it requires a lot of hard work, maybe more dedication, than talent. And perhaps if (not trying to insult you) you are thiny, not fat and stuff, you are sure to be a light high tenor(not saying that only tiny slim dudes are high tenors, dont get me wrong). A really well developed chest if you have gone to the jym to work out, exercise with weights, you are sure to find it easier to sing (not only the low register, but the high too). Question is, whether you need that lower register in your style of singing. :) Maybe you want to do some nice Guns and roses songs, to enter nice low notes and sing higher (not giving axl as an example, cause his singing in reinforced falsetto is something I can do with ease, but dont want to :( ).

On to the baritonic stuff, I myself have been mistaken for a baritone, when I first started singing, but it is due to many factors:

1) I was 16 and I never had sang before that.

2) My voice was maturing and developing, making it sound neither high or low, but in some stupid mid-register.

It is an interesting info to know that when a boy's voice is maturing it takes 1 of 2 paths to go on= > it depends on your origins and stuff, cause for example me, I have more of the slavic origins here (since Im half russian,half Bulgarian) and my larynx is based a bit lower, enabling the maturing of my voice FROM TOP TO the lowest places. It is anatomically proved that the voice starts to mature and change from one place to other (so from the top to the low, or from the low to the top!) and it depends from that anatomy factor of your structure:)) and it has a lot connection with how wide and strong your vocal chords are.

3) My voice was developing from top to end and the "resting"part of it was determined as my main voice for that time. So.. my maestro told me I was a lyric baritone. Back then I could go down to F2 :( which is impossible for me to do now.

4) I was singing low baritonic stuff and sometimes bass.. in opera style, classical. you can listen to some of them here in our official website. http://www.slaviansko-edinstvo.org/bg/recordings.html ! if you want to hear me singing bass and if you find it hard to belive, listen to the sensible robber. It is a chistian slavic sacra music. :) haha, I hated my voice.. but I couldnt do anything else.. I just kept practising practising, practising,practising.. somedays even for 6-7 hours per day. I was totally obsessed by singing and music. And since I had no money or elsewhere to go, I would go to that city choir where I became solo singer (notice that all the dudes there are 40+ years old, and I was 16 hahaa). You can see that in live even, when I sand a baritone solo in the church here :

hahha, its pretty bad:)) I am wearing the same costume btw:)

So, after this unfortunate time, when I was working on making my techique good on the lower and mid register, I sang a lot in falsetto, a lot of mixing stuff.. was a great fan of Adam Lambert and other incredibly high singers such as James LaBrie from DT :). So I kept working and working, went to 2-3 pro teachers, who told me I'd been a lyric tenor, not bari... and my voice started losing weigh, there were moments where at early 17 years I could not sing the C3 (which now is my best comfortable low note). And so on and on.. i kept working and working and u know the rest of the story:) Now I sing quite comfortably to the high C, I even like sustaining it, holding it for some time... going lower to B and then back to C. It is a very useful training, I think... or who knows:)

Anyways, thanks for your respond! I hope you write here often, to keep connection with you guys, you're totally coool here! We all, singing people, are:))

PS: Nowadays Im doing exercises every day putting stuff in my mouth like а walnut or cork stuff.. haha, it is very useful for me, cause it gives me opportunity to develop and improve some MUSCULAR skills and feeling of how things resolve, while im breathing and singing.. haha,funny:) I also do some work out, to keep my form better.

I hope this is not useless to you, singers! Thank you for your help!

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Absolutely Most peoples break is at or around G4, even light tenors. Its just they are not carrying much vocal weight (chest voice) when they go into their mixed voice.

For the record all these terms mixed voice, twang, belting, overdrive are all distinct sounds but they all essentially variations on the same concept, that of bridging between chest and head voice.

This guy is totally right, at least for my situation. Though,my break is somewhere around A4 or a semitone lower. :) He is telling you the truth, baritone fiends:) Listen to him. And to be honest, lots of my friends sometimes tell me that my highest notes sound like fasletto and Im teling them that I dont use any of it. For example when I go to D5 or E5 (though it is hard)they think that it aint voice.. but I know it is, cause well.. im singing it haah. So a cool bari would sound chestier and stronger and a lot sexier.

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Rafael, I hate to disagree with you but the singing on "Sensible Robber" is not basso. Bass is not just because of how rumbly it feels in your body, it is also a range of notes. A range I did not hear in the performance. It sounded more like dramatic tenor. Same with the church choir song. Not really baritone, no matter how it felt in your body. So, you had a hard time believing with coaches told you that you were a tenor? Well, you are not the only one to reject the advice or judgement of a coach. :) We've all done it, now and then, our dirty little secret.

I, too, have been accused of using falsetto on a note when I know that it was not. Funny thing is, I can do falsetto and have done so, at times, for an emotional effect and do not have any problems with the use of falsetto.

Others that have thought it was falsetto either thought it was because that is the only way they could reach that note or because I sang it clean, rather than raspy and gritty. As if chest were a particular timbre. Whereas, I prefer Frisell's definition of chest, which is volume and resonance, which can be in any part of your range, with distortion being a sound effect for emotion, or even a natural sound from the structure, such as the case with Steven Tyler.

So, at least I can see that you keep mistyping your voice. Of course, it took me a long time to accept that I am tenor, not a baritone, light or otherwise, certainly never a bass.

It was frustrating for me because, for practice and fun, I used to sing the entire soundtrack to Jesus Christ, Superstar. And could never adequately do the parts of Caiaphas and the other Sadducees. It was easier for me to stick with the title role, Judas, and even Mary of Magdalene.

Maturation of the voice. My voice never cracked. It descended from sounding like a boy to a woman, when I was a teenager. I still kind of sound like a woman. Doesn't bother me, anymore. And it goes with my girlish figure. :lol:

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Thank you!

That is amazing news and really encouraging to hear!

I'm following Brett Manning's mastering Mix program right now to try and find my 'mixed voice'.

Could someone provide any examples of a male baritone singing in his mixed voice and hitting a note like 'Tenor High C'? Maybe on youtube or something? I would like to hear what it sounds like from a baritone!

Also another question, why do famous baritone singers like Michael Buble and Josh Groban never go for a note like Tenor High C? If it's possible for us baritones, why do they not do it? Can they do it, but just choose not to do it? I only ask because that was what led me to believe that baritones could not go higher than a G4.

Thanks again : )

Josh Groban and Michael Buble both have recorded songs that go up to Bb4, and Groban may have done some stuff that goes higher. The fact that they don't sing as high as say Bruno Mars or Steve Perry is a stylistic choice rather than a physical limitation. The range they sing in allows them to better articulate the lyrics than if they sang higher.

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Josh Groban and Michael Buble both have recorded songs that go up to Bb4, and Groban may have done some stuff that goes higher. The fact that they don't sing as high as say Bruno Mars or Steve Perry is a stylistic choice rather than a physical limitation. The range they sing in allows them to better articulate the lyrics than if they sang higher.

Absolutely on point, Mssr LeBeau.

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Rafael, I hate to disagree with you but the singing on "Sensible Robber" is not basso. Bass is not just because of how rumbly it feels in your body, it is also a range of notes. A range I did not hear in the performance. It sounded more like dramatic tenor. Same with the church choir song. Not really baritone, no matter how it felt in your body. So, you had a hard time believing with coaches told you that you were a tenor? Well, you are not the only one to reject the advice or judgement of a coach. :) We've all done it, now and then, our dirty little secret.

I, too, have been accused of using falsetto on a note when I know that it was not. Funny thing is, I can do falsetto and have done so, at times, for an emotional effect and do not have any problems with the use of falsetto.

So, at least I can see that you keep mistyping your voice. Of course, it took me a long time to accept that I am tenor, not a baritone, light or otherwise, certainly never a bass.

Em... no, the coaches were telling me at first that I was a baritone.. when I was maturing. Though now I am sure that I am not. And yeah, sometimes it was hard believing that I was a tenor, but as I grew up, my voice entirely opened as a tenorish voice:) and I like it. So as I promised, I will post some of the songs that I mentioned, they are all from live.

So what do you think about the voice though, or the performances heard? Were they that bad or.. ?

and do you agree with the fact that Im a tenor. I am called a lyric tenor now (you wil listen to the new videos I will post soon).

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