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Moderately experienced vocalist looking for tips

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lottabullets
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I'm 15 years old and a low baritone, I've sung for a few years now and I've managed to do quite a few things in my 4 years of seriously singing. Originally, I was an octavist in 6th grade singing bass parts. I hit a G2 at 11 years old which surprised my teacher a lot. Anyways I started to work on my middle to upper voice a lot more the next year and even more the following year. I was considered a bass up until the second semester of my Freshman year where I was placed in the Baritone section.

Anyways, my range is E2-F5 in my natural voice, with vocal fry I can hit a D1 and with falsetto I can hit a C6. I know that I have major room for improvement and I haven't truly explored my voice too well, I haven't trained my head voice amazingly since I only have an F5. A tenor I'm not, but I can expand my range more for sure. I'm interested in singing some hard rock songs from bands like Disturbed and Avenged Sevenfold, so I would like some help as to how not only can I improve my range, but also how to help my rock voice (which I've developed this raspy tone and have done some false cord singing) and how to "scream" like m.shadows (not the first 2 albums where it revolves around screaming, but more so like nightmare, and how to sustain a long scream)

thanks in advance

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Almost 5 octaves? That's amazing at your age. I might differ with you on your desriptions of "registers" involved. F5 is in head voice for all voice ranges. You may think you are in normal or chest voice but you are not. Even for tenors, there is a tonal shift at around D5 to E5. I've known some people, including myself, to reach a C6 but is not falsetto. Falsetto is a lack of complete adduction of the vocal folds and a lack or absence of resonant quality. So, I am not sure what your definition of falsetto is.

Axl Rose is actually a bass but he can sing as high as, think, around A5.

I am going to get some disagreement on this but I can't seem to stop myself, as I study classical technique while singing rock, pop, country, whatever floats my boat on any given day.

What are known as false vocal folds are most actively engaged when one swallows. Otherwise, they are thought to not protrude and do not actually affect note generation. They form something of a vestibule. What happens when the larynx is raised to high is that the vestibule that provides the first formant is gone as the larynx rises and meets, almost, the false folds. That is, the throat is trying to swallow.

As for what is screamo, to which I think you are referring, I am not sure what is going on with that, though I have my own redneck theory. My theory and $1.70 will get you a Diet Coke. What is happening is that the true folds are not adducting. What is vibrating is looser tissue up in the pharynx where tongue movement can restrict air flow, creating apparent changes in pitch, like a loosely tuned whistle. But I am not an expert on distortion. I have been told before that I am wrong about what I understand of false vocal folds and their relation, or not, to distortion of sound. And that's fine. I might be wrong, misunderstanding what I have read of such technique, as well as my understanding of anatomy that I have learned from the likes of Dr. Fillebrown, Richard Miller, and sites and sources that directly deal with the larynx and surrounding structures.

What you will find, especially for a low centered voice like yours, is that the earlier you get into head voice, the better and more solid your upper range. Geoff Tate gets into head voice before he ever reaches C4 or D4, though he doesn't think of it that way. I've just used more technical terms than he ever has.

In which case, you are in the right place. Lunte's 4 Pillars system directly helps many a baritone get a rock tenor voice. And no, I am not a salesman or rep or anything. I just state what I think or know, good or bad.

And yes, Lunte can help you toward the sound you are looking for. Work on basics. And then work with him on his "Overlay Distortion," of which he as a fine example of himself doing it.

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What i mean by my "normal voice" I include chest and head together, while i flip to falsetto at above F5, which, in most cases, I would have already flipped to falsetto because my voice sounds terrible at an F5, albeit i can still hit it. I'm not looking for screamo techniques, I'm looking for something a little different and more specific, more like growling like David Draiman of Disturbed and even the slight screaming that would be required similar to M.Shadows of Avenged Sevenfold.

Also I would like to know more about the baritone voice, as in what should be expected of a voice like mine at my age and if I have something truly amazing at my age.

Examples of what I was talking about:

Long sustained scream at beginning

wanting to know how to develop the vocal style

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Just having the 5 octave range at 15 is amazing. I have a puny 2.75 octave range. If I lower my larynx a bit and stretch, I can go down a few more notes and "claim" 3 octaves.

I haven't really listened to the bands you have mentioned. The most current singer I could think of with a neat rasp is Layne Staley (RIP) but my favorite singers are from another era earlier than that.

Anyway, I can't help you on vocal distortion. Others know more about it and are capable of more rasp and distortion than I can manage or care to manage.

Anyway, good luck.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well. I would like to hear some recordings from ya.

Shadows uses mainly creaking. You can find it this way -Try start a comfortamble note and progressively diminish volume until voice breaks. Than maintaining this feeling of "break" increase the volume. It must feel comfortamble! If you feel it hurt's or tickle - stop!

You can also find heavier creaking. Sing something with "uh" vowel and cry/hold sensation and mid-volume. Than gradually incrase the volume and direct vowels more to "Oh" and "Eh" (maintain cry/hold).

It is a little danger to play with creaking 'couse it's a true-folds-distortion. Aware of this.

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I would like to have more assistance on this thread as only one person has attempted to help me so far.

how about a rewrite of your post above to read...

could anyone else please offer some suggestions?

you'll catch more flys with honey.....

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how about a rewrite of your post above to read...

could anyone else please offer some suggestions?

you'll catch more flys with honey.....

Im sorry my posting ways didn't fly with you, but honestly I could care less what you have to say about a simple bump without me actually saying bump. It makes me feel wronged that there are posts with hundreds of replies on the same thread and mine only had 5 at the time. The fact you took time to post that instead of tips doesn't really bode well for you friend.

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Well. I would like to hear some recordings from ya.

Shadows uses mainly creaking. You can find it this way -Try start a comfortamble note and progressively diminish volume until voice breaks. Than maintaining this feeling of "break" increase the volume. It must feel comfortamble! If you feel it hurt's or tickle - stop!

You can also find heavier creaking. Sing something with "uh" vowel and cry/hold sensation and mid-volume. Than gradually incrase the volume and direct vowels more to "Oh" and "Eh" (maintain cry/hold).

It is a little danger to play with creaking 'couse it's a true-folds-distortion. Aware of this.

Honestly that technique is unsafe although I did sound like a young shadows.I'm trying more to find the raspiness from their self-titled album without destroying my voice years before to achieve the same sound. What type of recordings would you like to hear?

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lottabullets -

this is a forum.. As and when people go through your posts and if they have something to say and if they choose to say it, they will.. they are not compelled to flood this page with posts just because you expect it.

I would take it easy on the attitude if I was you.

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Honestly that technique is unsafe although I did sound like a young shadows.I'm trying more to find the raspiness from their self-titled album without destroying my voice years before to achieve the same sound. What type of recordings would you like to hear?

Look. I tell you that M.Shadows uses "creaking". If you are trying to achieve a similar effect, it is going to "creaking". If it damages your voice it means that you're doing something wrong and you need to try another way. Often fails a little thing like just a little of- not good enough support, too much tense, misplaced vowels.

I would like to hear something from your records, because you write that you were classified as Bass. I wonder how you sound. that's all.

If you are interested in differnet hoarseness, distortion effects. Look at this forum. There is plenty of discussion on this topic.

Regards.

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lol!!!

well "freind" let me just say this to you....you have to crawl before you can walk.

all you hear and want are based on proficiency with core competensies.

my recommendation is for you have to get the basics down first.

send us over a recording of you singing a c4 on the vowel "ah" in full voice held out for 20 seconds.

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lol!!!

well "freind" let me just say this to you....you have to crawl before you can walk.

all you hear and want are based on proficiency with core competensies.

my recommendation is for you have to get the basics down first.

send us over a recording of you singing a c4 on the vowel "ah" in full voice held out for 20 seconds.

Not quite sure if this is a for real request or not as I've seen my fair share of trolls in the day. I do have basics down and I have self-trained myself in developing a rock voice. You could say that I've already learned how to crawl. I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but I came here for tips, not people telling me how to post on a forum as I've been around the block for many forums for gaming.

Really, I don't want to sound hasty or impatient, but I was an admin of a forum full of trolls that I had to constantly put in their place.

So if you want to hear me seriously hold out a C4 for 20 seconds, I will, but I don't see how that would help what I am looking to attain, and what I'm looking to attain is mostly found on the Afterlife video I posted above; That raspy, high sound that I really wish to sound like.

If you want more backing to how solid I am on basics, I sing in a choir with a few seniors, (me being a freshman) and they say that I carry my own section which happens to have a couple people in the section that are vastly more experienced than I am. I can send over a recording of some classical music or I can record a rock song sometime later this week depending on how my throat feels as allergies have been kicking my ass this week

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Look. I tell you that M.Shadows uses "creaking". If you are trying to achieve a similar effect, it is going to "creaking". If it damages your voice it means that you're doing something wrong and you need to try another way. Often fails a little thing like just a little of- not good enough support, too much tense, misplaced vowels.

I would like to hear something from your records, because you write that you were classified as Bass. I wonder how you sound. that's all.

If you are interested in differnet hoarseness, distortion effects. Look at this forum. There is plenty of discussion on this topic.

Regards.

I say its unsafe because M.Shadows can't sing what he used to be able to any longer because he used this technique during the first 2 albums, Sounding the Seventh Trumpet and Waking the Fallen, which seriously damaged his live singing, albeit the rare singing that was heard on the first album was very immature sounding and not raspy whatsoever. On Waking the Fallen, with a lot of "creaking" and screaming done, he ultimately got the raspy sound heard on their next album after receiving traiing, but due to damage to his voice, what he recorded on the previous album, atleast the songs that went into the high register (I Won't see you Tonight), had to have those high parts sung by the Rev, who is a tenor for sure.

I want to have the same sound, but no damage. By the way, I'm a Baritone in my choir, but I have both bass and tenor notes. Again, what type of recording do you want to hear? I can sing something classical if you want or I can show what I've developed in my rock voice

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anything you want. but i'd settle for a c4 held out for 20 seconds. this is not as easy as it sounds.

Oh I know its not easy, but lately I've been seriously pushing my voice to do things I never thought I could do, like effortlessly singing high songs from avenged sevenfold. I'll send something over this weekend as the air is drying out on friday and I have time

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So, you've learned just about everything after approximately 4 whole years of singing and you just started in choir already doing all the basics and were solid enough to get typed. Enough experience at age 15 to tell off the admin. That's amazing. Unbelievable, one might say

I could only imagine the time constraints you must have had, homework, starting adolescence, singing and choir practice. Then learning "rock" singing styles. All while being on gaming forums, where you learned forum etiquette. That's more than I could manage when I was 15. When I was 15, I was just happy to learn how to sing most of "Stairway to Heaven." But then, when I was your age, internet was smoke signals from hilltop to hilltop.

Perhaps I should learn from you.

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So, you've learned just about everything after approximately 4 whole years of singing and you just started in choir already doing all the basics and were solid enough to get typed. Enough experience at age 15 to tell off the admin. That's amazing. Unbelievable, one might say

I could only imagine the time constraints you must have had, homework, starting adolescence, singing and choir practice. Then learning "rock" singing styles. All while being on gaming forums, where you learned forum etiquette. That's more than I could manage when I was 15. When I was 15, I was just happy to learn how to sing most of "Stairway to Heaven." But then, when I was your age, internet was smoke signals from hilltop to hilltop.

Perhaps I should learn from you.

Yeah all I said it's that I had the basics, if you want to challenge me on that go right ahead. I might as wel go elsewhere for help at this point honestly

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Hi lottabullets,

I'm sorry I can't help you but I'm not that educated in all of this and I am here learning myself. But I have read through the thread and would like to offer my 2 cents for what it's worth :)

I understand the frustration of posting something and the thread eventually drifting off to page 2 with no responses. However, forum experience and even my short time as a member of this forum tells me that sometimes people may not understand a question and so leave it for someone else. Or they don't understand it and then ask a question of the original poster. Or they don't understand the question so much that they don't even know how to question you without feeling stupid....so they just say nothing.

Other times there just may not be enough information. Now, I noticed on this forum and other music related forums, that many questions require a sample. A lot of things are hard to put into text and lose a little something in the translation. This is why someone may ask to hear a sample. This lets them get a foothold on where you're coming from, where a problem or hitch might be and how to best approach it. If you told me you dropped a puzzle on the floor and wanted advice on putting it back together, well I'm sure I could try with pages and pages of descriptions and possible solutions. But a video or some photos would be the way to go so I could "see" where the problem is.

At this point I think your frustration is leading to the readers also getting frustrated and then a little attitude never helps...on all sides.

I am sorry this hasn't worked out the way you thought it might. In many cases it is best to retreat a bit, regroup and then mount another attack. :)

Perhaps we can begin again? Post a clip of you singing and addressing the problem and see what happens.

Sound like a plan? Or did I just waste 5 minutes of my life? :D

Tommy

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This kid is something else. I'm 36 years old and been doing this a long time and have posted questions and gotten zilch. rnws has offered good advice and there were more tips here than on any of my posts. He reminds me of my kid, he just wants to hear what he wants to hear and is not grateful for any of it. Typical

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Look I'm willing to cooperate, but this this all started over a bump that I did. If anyone is offended I'm sorry, but I didn't come here for lectures on attitude as usually I don't have one, so once again I'm sorry for any misconceptions or anyone taking offence. So back to the topic at hand then please ? That's al I want from you so I'm sorry to rub off as a little bitch with an attitude problem. I'm here to learn and I'm also here to receive some guidance and I don't mean to speak as if I've been singing for an extreme amount of time, but I have had some amazing teachers that have taught the basics to me. I guess I'm trying to find out if the way I sing with a rock style is correct and safe. Let me explain more in detail a little later today on how I do this, with a recording on saturday

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rnws has offered good advice and there were more tips here than on any of my posts.

While I just apologized for what I said, if like to take the time to address why I bumped since its apparent to me that you are uncertain, rnws did assist me, but he stated that he did not know exactly for sure what he was saying was the best way as he also said that he was not the expert or rather, the best source available for what I was looking for. Thats perfectly fine. I wasnt receiving more replies so I asked for more assistance, that I hope will clear up some more on the subject.

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