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Overdrive

I lose tone when singing higher

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When listening back to my recordings it seems like I'm fine on the 'easy notes', but when I'm singing higher it all sounds... boring? It doesn't have a good tone I think, I don't really know what's going on. Describing it as 'boring' is the best I can think of, and it's what comes to mind when I listen back to it. Maybe it just needs power. How do I add power to my higher range?

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Why not post a clip of you singing throughout your register so we can all hear it...

http://soundcloud.com/tmusician/lost-tone

First half is me singing along with a small part of a song I like that I'm mostly comfortable with (other than some high yells I fail at) and then the other half is just me doing a high melody, which hopefully reveals my problems so that I can work on them.

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I do not hear you losing any tone... What I do hear is you are staying right in a "comfort zone" in your chest voice. You should consider getting a coach to help you get into your head voice. Your tone is great in the low register, albeit a tiny bit airy and in need of some work. There is no reason why you can't broaden your range and sharpen up your tone a bit - the only thing stopping you....is you! You have a great "beginner" voice, and there is no reason that you can't get to the next level. It will take some work on your part, and most likely investing some $, but in the long run, it will be well worth it. I currently have Roberts Pillars program, and I work with it from 2-4 hours a day (that is, when I don't destroy my voice at a show while screaming at the top of my lungs so my friends can hear what I have to say...lol) So my advise is to not worry about how your higher notes sound right now. Get a program that you think will work for you, and start with the basics. Oh, and most importantly, have fun doing it!

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I do not hear you losing any tone... What I do hear is you are staying right in a "comfort zone" in your chest voice. You should consider getting a coach to help you get into your head voice. Your tone is great in the low register, albeit a tiny bit airy and in need of some work. There is no reason why you can't broaden your range and sharpen up your tone a bit - the only thing stopping you....is you! You have a great "beginner" voice, and there is no reason that you can't get to the next level. It will take some work on your part, and most likely investing some $, but in the long run, it will be well worth it. I currently have Roberts Pillars program, and I work with it from 2-4 hours a day (that is, when I don't destroy my voice at a show while screaming at the top of my lungs so my friends can hear what I have to say...lol) So my advise is to not worry about how your higher notes sound right now. Get a program that you think will work for you, and start with the basics. Oh, and most importantly, have fun doing it!

Thanks for the feedback, how are Brett Manning's programs in your opinion?

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Thanks for the feedback, how are Brett Manning's programs in your opinion?

I have not had any luck with them personally. I'd recommend Roberts program or Tamplins... Roberts has shown me fast results, I have not worked at all with Tamplins, but I hear it's also really good.

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I have not had any luck with them personally. I'd recommend Roberts program or Tamplins... Roberts has shown me fast results, I have not worked at all with Tamplins, but I hear it's also really good.

haha you have no idea what you did by posting this! I've spent basically every minute since I saw this message looking into the various vocal programs! Ken Tamplin really sticks out to me though because he actually has some videos on youtube for everyone to see of him singing different styles, and his recording of his "Dave Grohl" style is EXACTLY what I'm looking for!

Unfortunately his programs seem to be quite expensive! I also looked at the Four Pillars (seems amazing as well, although I wish I could see somewhere a "Dave Grohl" style example as well, like what has impressed me so much with Tamplin. Also I'm looking at CVT, which is the most affordable it seems.

Also something that is very cool was I got a bit of feedback from Tamplin! He said:

"I like your energy in your singing...

You would do well to learn about "Open Throat Technique."

Right now when go up in your upper register, you literally "choke off"

the chord squeezing your throat which is the opposite response you want

when you sing.

You are also in need of much better diaphragmatic support (breathing

from your lower stomach and pushing down on this area when you sing

which relieves tension in the chest neck and throat).

This will also help considerably with stamina and better pitch as well as range.

You are also using too much air when you sing which will dry out your

chords very quickly.

Learning how to "hold back" the air will help with this. (like holding

your breath when you sing)

Of course there is much more to learn, but this would be a good start for you."

The biggest thing I got out of that was that I need serious help with my breathing. I've been watching Eric Arcenaux's youtube videos for help with that. I'm not sure if it's working or not yet, but either way I still think I want to get a program so that I can seriously progress as a singer.

I think that I am leaning towards Ken Tamplin's program. Is it best to get the $300 package, which I think includes all of his videos? Or just get the "How To Sings" one at a time?

By the way, why is CVT so much cheaper? Does it teach everything the other programs do? I love its affordability and might get that as well.

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overdrive, if i may offer a little feedback, when you sing always be cognisant that what you hear in your head, may not be what the audience hears and this goes also for the amount of emotion you put into a song.

think of it in terms of a motion picture actor vs. a theater actor. the theater actor really has to emote and use a lot of body language to be convincing to an audience on stage vs. a close shot, miked motion picture actor.

when you sing you may need to emote more than you realize especially in songs like this or they risk coming out lackluster and boring.

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overdrive, if i may offer a little feedback, when you sing always be cognisant that what you hear in your head, may not be what the audience hears and this goes also for the amount of emotion you put into a song.

think of it in terms of a motion picture actor vs. a theater actor. the theater actor really has to emote and use a lot of body language to be convincing to an audience on stage vs. a close shot, miked motion picture actor.

when you sing you may need to emote more than you realize especially in songs like this or they risk coming out lackluster and boring.

I always have seemed to have a hard time expressing the emotion in my singing, although that might be because usually I want something intense and I haven't been using proper support, haha.

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proper support will give you a palate of options....as long as everything stays out of the throat. when you're singing in the moment, it can be difficult to avoid involving the throat, simply because you're so into it, you get carried away...

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I think you need to focus on a) reducing tension in your throat and B) improved english pronounciation. The attitude is already there in your voice, so that's good. You just need to improve in those two areas to start off with and you'll see huge improvements - including in your low range.

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I agree that there's a difference between the lower and higher pitches, and that this can be somewhat described as "boring" (another term-- less rich of sound). Instead of trying to "fix" this, one may want to first examine why this is.

In one's comfortable range, one has had a lifetime of developing nuances in tones--to express one's daily communications. Outside that range, the nuances and its controls are unfamiliar. At the same time, when one developed the muscular controls to enhance in the comfortable range, one tends to become lax in less familiar ranges. As a result, the less familiar areas are less practiced and generally have all kinds of muscular tensions. When these tensions exist, it is nearly impossible to develop a rich tone.

So, my opinion is, if you want to attain a richer range, get rid of tensions first, instead of trying to sound better.

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Also, I differ in "expressing emotions" versus "attitude". Attitude as stated in pop songs is usually singer's proclivity to openly-express sing a similar set of emotions. So if one has an anger attitude, this means, one is inclined to openly express anger, excitable, hurt types of emotions. So, having an attitude generally means being able to emit a limited range of emotions.

A singer of emotions-- that's much more difficult-- the singer can effectively sing different feelings for different songs. Elated love feelings to shouting metal.

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Overdrive I like your tone. Very full and deep.

The reason why you sound strange to your ears is a small tension, probably resulting from lack of support, and as a result you are actually going a LITTLE nasal on those passages, which is not what you want from the complaint. Also you are losing focus and spreading the vowels too much.

Its something quite easy to fix from what I hear, I dont hear any serious problem going on. A few months of discilpined trainning would probably make a huge difference on that song. Its quite natural actually to become nasal as a way to avoid strainning.

May I add that it does not sound bad? Think its important, although its getting nasal you are not squeezing or trying to change your voice.

Professional help + trainning is the easiest and safer way. GL!

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When listening back to my recordings it seems like I'm fine on the 'easy notes', but when I'm singing higher it all sounds... boring? It doesn't have a good tone I think, I don't really know what's going on. Describing it as 'boring' is the best I can think of, and it's what comes to mind when I listen back to it. Maybe it just needs power. How do I add power to my higher range?

I have the same problem? Can anybody help me? I think you all discuss to the other issue, please give concentrate here.

Thanks in advance

___________________________________________

Teeth cleaning Houston

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Hey Overdrive!

You shouldn't pay much attention to what Ken Tamplin wrote to you in your 'personal evaluation'. This is what I got when I sent him my file for evaluation:

Hi Lukasz,

Thanks for your interest in KTVA,

I checked out your stuff.

I like your energy in your singing...

You would do well to learn about "Open Throat Technique."

Right now when go up in your upper register, you literally "choke off"

the chord squeezing your throat which is the opposite response you want

when you sing.

You are also in need of much better diaphragmatic support (breathing

from your lower stomach and pushing down on this area when you sing

which relieves tension in the chest neck and throat).

This will also help considerably with stamina and better pitch as well as range.

You are also using too much air when you sing which will dry out your

chords very quickly.

Learning how to "hold back" the air will help with this. (like holding

your breath when you sing)

Of course there is much more to learn, but this would be a good start for you.

As you can see, it's the same answer you got, just copied/pasted. He probably doesn't even listen to the files he gets, it's just a kind of unfair advertisement of his dvd program.

All the best!

Łukasz

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Hey Overdrive!

You shouldn't pay much attention to what Ken Tamplin wrote to you in your 'personal evaluation'. This is what I got when I sent him my file for evaluation:

Hi Lukasz,

Thanks for your interest in KTVA,

I checked out your stuff.

I like your energy in your singing...

You would do well to learn about "Open Throat Technique."

Right now when go up in your upper register, you literally "choke off"

the chord squeezing your throat which is the opposite response you want

when you sing.

You are also in need of much better diaphragmatic support (breathing

from your lower stomach and pushing down on this area when you sing

which relieves tension in the chest neck and throat).

This will also help considerably with stamina and better pitch as well as range.

You are also using too much air when you sing which will dry out your

chords very quickly.

Learning how to "hold back" the air will help with this. (like holding

your breath when you sing)

Of course there is much more to learn, but this would be a good start for you.

As you can see, it's the same answer you got, just copied/pasted. He probably doesn't even listen to the files he gets, it's just a kind of unfair advertisement of his dvd program.

All the best!

Łukasz

Shoot haha thanks a ton for revealing that! Also interesting to note, at first I sent the wrong file and he sent a real email that said "This isn't a vocal sample, did you mean to send this?" and then I fixed my mistake and sent again, and got that copy-paste message. Maybe he listens to the samples and then just doesn't leave new feedback.

Anyway I also heard a few negative things about Ken's method, so I'm not sure about it anymore. I already got CVT because I always heard good things and it was pretty cheap. I haven't read much of it yet, it's huge! haha

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Hey guys,

For your information.

I have about 30 of these "templates" I have written out (because I can get up to 50 requests a day now and people, especially rock guys, have so many similar issues) that it made no sense to keep typing and repeating the same information over and over again. So if you are going to post something, post all 30 of the templatess I created.

I have personally listened to every single submission myself and responded myself. No one does it for me. I take the time to do it myself.

@ DJ Deth

You wrote "Shoot haha thanks a ton for revealing that! Also interesting to note, at first I sent the wrong file and he sent a real email that said "This isn't a vocal sample, did you mean to send this?" and then I fixed my mistake and sent again, and got that copy-paste message. Maybe he listens to the samples and then just doesn't leave new feedback."

The reason for that response is because it is proof that I listen to every single submission and what you included was not a vocal sample (and you know it...it was some weird ad or something... and therefore there was nothing for me to evaluate... again more proof that I personally listen and respond to each submission).

Guys:

If there are people that have issues that sit outside the most common 30 templates I have created, I personlize it even more (using the template that best fits them but adding to it or subtracting from it).

Whether you care to believe this or not, there has not been even one single submission I have received, that I have personally not listen to and send an evaluation myself. Not my assistant, not an auto response. ME. I'm not aware of any vocal coach that takes the time to do that.

So now I have a question for you:

Did this reply I sent you fit the actual issues you are having with your voice?

Because if you had a light or airy sound, you would not have received this.

If you were an R & B singer, virtually none of those points would have applied to you.

If you sang opera this would most likely be the case also.

This is true with Jazz or lighter pop / soul stuff and so on...

I put together (and spent quite some time doing it) templates to HELP people with similar issues.

If vocal coaches were to be straight with you, you will find that most people within specific genres, have very similar, if not the same issues.

So mock it all you want, I will keep doing my best to give people quality information.

Good luck to you on your singing endeavors.

-KT

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Hey Mr. Tamplin! I didn't expect you to post here, I now understand your reasoning. I think it's an excellent idea, and you are truly a great singer. Are you aware however that some people do not consider the "Open Throat Technique" safe? They say it is very easy to do wrongly. I had never heard anything negative about you or your method until then. I'd love to however hear your side of the issue and hopefully clear it up.

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"Are you aware however that some people do not consider the "Open Throat Technique" safe? They say it is very easy to do wrongly. I had never heard anything negative about you or your method until then. I'd love to however hear your side of the issue and hopefully clear it up."

They are absolutely correct.

For example Franco Tenalli espouses this. And he is absolutely correct.

I wrote an entire essay on this in the KTVA forums.

If you have not established the correct support, can adjust for a lowered larynx position (rasing and lowering it when necessary), can manage correct air flow and understand vowel modifications (which Tenelli does not believe in, which I posted interviews of Pavarotti in my forums (with Pavarotti singing and demonstrating this) Pavarotti actually explains this importance of these vowel modifications while relaxing the vocal folds.

It is for this reason, I have put together a step by step program to systematically grow these components as I believe there is no stronger support mechanism.

The problem lies in people wanting things too fast, so they skip or hurry through the stages.

The ones that take the time to build the muscle structure are absolutely blown away at the end result.

But I am not going to trivialize this. IT IS A WORK OUT. A HEAVY DUTY WORKOUT. You are building a muscle structure.

But once you build it correctly, there's no guy in the bar that is going to want to pick a fight with you :-)

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One last thing:

For any and all those who put down (my) open throat technique?

All I ask is that they post something that out performs me.

This is an open invitation...a challenge if you will.

All the Ivory Tower talk. I want to see (hear) proof with their own instrument.

I will repeat my Mantra again:

THE PROOF IS IN THE SINGING.

(at least Tenalli can sing. His version of Nessun Dorma is pretty good. The only problem for me is he never sings beyond B4 and has no proof he understands distorted glottal compression which is a much different animal than clean compression, or that he can belt through the passagio and actually connect (fuse) together one long power chest belting resonant sound up to a B5 (an octave above where he sings).

I am glad he agrees with me on the concept of NOT compartmentalizing the voice into 2 parts, the chest and the head. But that the voice should be thought of and worked as a whole. Not 2 separate parts. THIS REALLY HELPS with understanding the bridge. (you may want to sign for my bi monthly KTVA webinars where I personally demonsrate and address these issues and much more).

-KT

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the open throat technique vs. a speech level technique? to me, i'd take the open throat technique any day. it may take longer to build, but it's worth the effort.

with the open throat technique you are building a foundation to sing anything. i'm not too sure the same is true with speech level technique.

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If the proof is in the singing, wouldn't all great singers be great vocal coaches, especially the ones who teach singing?

I think the best proof for a vocal coach is word of mouth. If you want to find a good coach, ask your singing friends which one they like the most.

Btw. when I've asked that question, Ken's name has come up quite often.

Finally, let's remember that range and power are just one aspect of good singing. Feel, the ability to really deliver the lyrics to the audience and the overall tone, are even more important.

Peace.

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