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Gospel Tenor :)

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izzle1989
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Obviously he is very skilled to be able to sustain that kind of singing regardless of vocal weight, but he doesn't really strike me as a tenor, sounds like your average male voice timber wise.

I don't think tenor/baritone/bass etc is really suitable for modern music, because even C5 is not very high for the averagle male even if it's the "top tenor note" - even though it's not really about range that's how people interpret it. Would make more sense to say bright/darker voice etc because it's not as simple as either bari or tenor. This guy is just a very skilled curber (CVT terms) and I really think anyone could pull this type of singing off with enough training.

I really do like this type of singing, really nice.

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He has more videos with him going higher into the 5th octave, but this type of singing is very demanding. He never really goes into a light head voice. In the song I think he goes up to an Eb5 while still in the mix. I know plenty of singers that can do this too and many of them have not taken voice lessons.

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Singing like this is just a vocal setup, if you can find it on your own then chances are you can develop it on your own. Probably most of the untrained "natural" singers are just people who found the correct setup for singing high when they were young and went with it.

I listen primarily to hard rock and some types of metal and this type of demanding singing is the norm; however doing mix up to 5th octave is not really anything special. It seems like most males sing up to at least E5 in mix, and after that it doesn't really matter because it will all sound the same.

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Singing like this is just a vocal setup, if you can find it on your own then chances are you can develop it on your own. Probably most of the untrained "natural" singers are just people who found the correct setup for singing high when they were young and went with it.

I listen primarily to hard rock and some types of metal and this type of demanding singing is the norm; however doing mix up to 5th octave is not really anything special. It seems like most males sing up to at least E5 in mix, and after that it doesn't really matter because it will all sound the same.

True

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Obviously he is very skilled to be able to sustain that kind of singing regardless of vocal weight, but he doesn't really strike me as a tenor, sounds like your average male voice timber wise.

I don't think tenor/baritone/bass etc is really suitable for modern music, because even C5 is not very high for the averagle male even if it's the "top tenor note" - even though it's not really about range that's how people interpret it. Would make more sense to say bright/darker voice etc because it's not as simple as either bari or tenor. This guy is just a very skilled curber (CVT terms) and I really think anyone could pull this type of singing off with enough training.

I really do like this type of singing, really nice.

Maestro Sun i have to chime in on what i would like to call the "PUT UP OR SHUT UP HOUR". You are discussing on here and other posts on this thread that singing this stuff is easy.Well coming from someone who does sing in this area night after night i wouldn't say its easy and i have had a lot of training and it is still problem here and there to sail and sing up on these ranges. but since you have such a hold on this concept and setup would you please enlighten us with a song or two live and show us how easy it is to singing up there. thanks looking forward to learn from it maestro. Also maestro listen to ray gillian of Badlands for someone who sings much of his songs in-between a4 and Eb5 sail the whole song but make no mistake when he sang live some nights he had to back Away and do a melody a bit lower for a second or phrase differently but some nights WOW.

Izzle i love love michael i have seen him perform and even someone like him will still shy away from notes here and there because thats the nature of singing. He is great . Great vid it reminded me to start listening to him again.

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Maestro Sun i have to chime in on what i would like to call the "PUT UP OR SHUT UP HOUR". You are discussing on here and other posts on this thread that singing this stuff is easy.Well coming from someone who does sing in this area night after night i wouldn't say its easy and i have had a lot of training and it is still problem here and there to sail and sing up on these ranges. but since you have such a hold on this concept and setup would you please enlighten us with a song or two live and show us how easy it is to singing up there. thanks looking forward to learn from it maestro. Also maestro listen to ray gillian of Badlands for someone who sings much of his songs in-between a4 and Eb5 sail the whole song but make no mistake when he sang live some nights he had to back Away and do a melody a bit lower for a second or phrase differently but some nights WOW.

Izzle i love love michael i have seen him perform and even someone like him will still shy away from notes here and there because thats the nature of singing. He is great . Great vid it reminded me to start listening to him again.

Thanks Daniel I really appreciate that. :)

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Daniel you are misinterpreting what I'm saying...

Your quote there is me discussing the irrelevance of fach in modern music, because the gospel guy here singing a high song doesn't make him a tenor, nor does being a baritone mean you couldn't sing high songs like this.

I've never said singing like this is EASY, however it's rather SIMPLE. Simple doesn't mean it's easy or that it doesn't take a shitton of practise, it means you don't have to know a bazillion things about muscles within the larynx (I know you agree), or do 5000 different exercises, something I've learned for myself recently.

I'm in no way shape or form a mastro nor have I claimed to be, in fact I am a BEGINNER to singing high, but I have been making enormous progress in the past few weeks which is the source of my opinions. I struggled a long time with the high range, but after getting a tip from Jonpall here I was able to get into curbing (cvt term for "mix voice") and after working with it can now sing and practise high songs like I've always wanted to (whitesnake etc) and my voice is improving like crazy. After this breakthrough with my voice I've been shying away from heavy tech talk because my voice has been improving from doing super simple exercises and simply singing, there is not that much to it really, just time and practise which needs to be put in (after finding the right setup, which won't sound good initially).

Singing an Eb5 in mix is definitely not anything special, meaning anyone can learn to do it. You don't need a super high pitch voice or be a tenor to be able to do it. It's awesome, and difficult yes but it's very obtainable for pretty much anyone.

So don't get me wrong, I have huge respect for all the singers who manage to pull of this style of singing not just for a song, but on tour day after day, such as yourself.

If you really want me to I could try and record some clips of what I'm working with, see if I have time tomorrow before work.

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Sun that was an awesome post anyway I can help you, hit me up, you seem like a very humble guy and that is important in singing. Cause sometimes just when you think you got it down BOOM a problem emerges.

I was being sarcastic cause that is my nature I'm a wiseass (check my disclaimer);)

Peace out

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Daniel you are misinterpreting what I'm saying...

Your quote there is me discussing the irrelevance of fach in modern music, because the gospel guy here singing a high song doesn't make him a tenor, nor does being a baritone mean you couldn't sing high songs like this.

I've never said singing like this is EASY, however it's rather SIMPLE. Simple doesn't mean it's easy or that it doesn't take a shitton of practise, it means you don't have to know a bazillion things about muscles within the larynx (I know you agree), or do 5000 different exercises, something I've learned for myself recently.

I'm in no way shape or form a mastro nor have I claimed to be, in fact I am a BEGINNER to singing high, but I have been making enormous progress in the past few weeks which is the source of my opinions. I struggled a long time with the high range, but after getting a tip from Jonpall here I was able to get into curbing (cvt term for "mix voice") and after working with it can now sing and practise high songs like I've always wanted to (whitesnake etc) and my voice is improving like crazy. After this breakthrough with my voice I've been shying away from heavy tech talk because my voice has been improving from doing super simple exercises and simply singing, there is not that much to it really, just time and practise which needs to be put in (after finding the right setup, which won't sound good initially).

Singing an Eb5 in mix is definitely not anything special, meaning anyone can learn to do it. You don't need a super high pitch voice or be a tenor to be able to do it. It's awesome, and difficult yes but it's very obtainable for pretty much anyone.

So don't get me wrong, I have huge respect for all the singers who manage to pull of this style of singing not just for a song, but on tour day after day, such as yourself.

If you really want me to I could try and record some clips of what I'm working with, see if I have time tomorrow before work.

I totally agree with you that's the reason why I posted this video. I wanted people to see just how natural good singing is. All we have to do is practice consistently.

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No worries, I might have been writing in a way which makes it sound like everything is easy, if so I apologize, because this is certainly not the case! :)

After trying for a long while and reading posts on this board where people get down and dirty with anatomy and even formants and acoustics I was a bit shocked to how easy the solution was to the typical "Hi I'm a baritone can't sing above F4". I was self taught until I hit that road bump and wanted to find solutions, now that I'm past that bump I can in retrospect tell what was actually important to know and what was not.

What was and still is important was the variables I can really change, such as f.ex. support, twang, vowel mods, avoiding strain, vocal tract shape, sleep & rest etc, not about what happens if I contract the inner left part of my TA muscle to 23,4%.

I've been meaning to hit you up actually, will send a mail soon!

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Sun if I may...

You are correct, tenors and baritones do not make sense outside the classical realm.

Still, the technical demand to sing on this range on pop is not that different. While I agree that the action in itself is rather simple, the trainning and development needed is not.

I do not agree that everyone can. Everyone COULD IF they trainned with a lot of dedication and good orientation. But without it, its just potential, just like you could be a professional anything else if you dedicated yourself, and etc, etc, etc.

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Sun if I may...

You are correct, tenors and baritones do not make sense outside the classical realm.

Still, the technical demand to sing on this range on pop is not that different. While I agree that the action in itself is rather simple, the trainning and development needed is not.

I do not agree that everyone can. Everyone COULD IF they trainned with a lot of dedication and good orientation. But without it, its just potential, just like you could be a professional anything else if you dedicated yourself, and etc, etc, etc.

Great Post Felipe.

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Yes you are of course correct Felipe, what I meant is that anyone COULD with proper practise and guidance (and no genetic defects).

BTW the gospel singer here reminds me of Joshua Ledet from american idol who is also a church singer, most likely self taught. I think gospel singing is really close to hard rock & metal singing which might be why I like it so much, the high edgy sounds with rasp etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ4pNlvt0m8

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Yes you are of course correct Felipe, what I meant is that anyone COULD with proper practise and guidance (and no genetic defects).

BTW the gospel singer here reminds me of Joshua Ledet from american idol who is also a church singer, most likely self taught. I think gospel singing is really close to hard rock & metal singing which might be why I like it so much, the high edgy sounds with rasp etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ4pNlvt0m8

Exactly! I feel the same way vice versa...I grew up singing gospel and would love to expand my palate for rock music. I love to hear great singers of any genre.

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Oh yeah, I was just watching some videos of Michael Pugh the other day. Love his timbre. He has gotten better since he was on Sunday's Best. The voice has gotten stronger and more secure, particularly in the upper ranges. And I agree with Daniel, to sing this way song after song, day after day, is a lot more challenging than it appears. Stamina is a huge factor once you get the general idea of the coordination. When I look at Donnie McClurkin, it still baffles me how he will launch C5 after C5 after D5 like an opera singer, and do it without tiring. But then I look at early videos of him, and just like everyone else, he couldn't do it at first -- he had to develop it over time.

BTW, for what it's worth, his timbre sounds a bit baritonal, but his voice doesn't really seem to "sit" like a baritone's. It sits higher like a tenor's. Either way, whether you're a baritone or tenor, you still have to work to sing like this consistently.

~~Dante~~

Exactly I have great admiration for that. That goes to show that singing is a skilled athletic feat!

:)

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I'm with you on that. Grew up quite a bit around R&B and Gospel, but have a stronger Gospel influence. I am sometimes told I sound too much like a Gospel singer, so I've been experimenting with new sounds and colors in the voice. Always up for trying new styles, including a little Metal here and there.

~~Dante~~

Wow that's what's up! I knew I wasn't alone wanting to learn Rock...I feel that if you can master each genre you will be a better singer overall.

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Okay here is a sound clip of what I am practising.

Disclaimer: It's not perfect or great sounding and I know this, I am working on it though and just want to share my progress.

https://www.box.com/s/cd4776a0d3c0f667d3b5

I've only been able to get above-passagio notes for little over two months, and as you can hear I'm making some good progress (going from a strained quick high squeak to this). It was a setup I found (curbing), so basically what I'm practising is not any particular note but the overall setup, a G4 or A4 is not that different for me, it's keeping strain away, keeping up the support, making it sound better etc which is the hard part.

For practising I'm only really doing some light falsetto wam ups and some scales, maybe some sirens too and after that singing of course. My voice is giving me measurable improvement almost on a daily basis so I'll just go with the flow :)

BTW as a "baritone" you can hear me getting a few high notes there to, using fachs just makes people get mental limitations no matter how many times you tell them otherwise.

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well folks, now we're getting to the singers!!!! lol!!!

what accounts for this sound? ah ha!!!!!...surprised you don't know the answer.......that's divine intervention......lol!!!!

but on a serious note, i truly believe the heart of those sounds is breath capacity and support with head and chest voice musculature development that can work with the pressure.

you truly have to gear yourself, psyche yourself up to sing this way.

i'll bet cha these singers started out as straining, crying, screamers...those with no vocal training had to have gone through a straining stage.

just thinking......sometimes i think we send the wrong message when we try to sing too "safe."

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