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Why the SKYPE recruitment discussion is gone?

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Fellas, I am not in agreement with using the TMV World Forum for recruiting of your Skype sessions. This qualifies as 'poaching' and it is against the rules of the forum, unless it were a "TMV World Forum" branded Skype conference.

I know that MB's intent was completely in good faith. To make an effort to bring people together is honorable and I respect that, but using the TMV World Forum to recruit members to move to another system, is against the rules, its a practice called "poaching". It threatens to deplete the very activity you all enjoy so much here at the forum. You don't sell Chevrolets at a Ford dealership, its a conflict of interest and I won't let that happen. Lastly, you all have the ability to put your Skype IDs and emails in your profiles and signatures, and can reach out to people individually, that will suffice.

I'm not going to argue with anyone about this decision.

However we can do this the right way... One obvious and easy solution would be to create a "TMV World Forum" branded Skype conference call. Perhaps a regularly scheduled call for people to essentially do the same thing, but it is a 'service' from TMV World Forum. If we do this, we would need people to manage and moderate it. With my schedule and travel, I would not be able to facilitate it. I am open to volunteers, visionaries and "can do" positive people for the assignment.

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The only two people I've come in contact through the skype topic, MB included, are students of singing, not "rival" teachers. The only thing we've done so far is what we've been doing on the forum all along, only a bit more quickly (a skype advantage) and possibly not in as much depth (a skype disadvantage). Just saying.

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I know Trip, I have participated in the Skype calls as well. They are good. All I am saying is, I work my ass off and pay for this system for everyone to enjoy. If you feel you have to use the system to recruit people, it needs to be recruiting into a "TMV World Forum" branded conference. You'll be doing right to the service that you met everyone at by doing so. It should make no difference to anyone really whether its "Bob's" Skype call or a more professional "TMV World Forum", regular scheduled conference... if fact, if we did this more professionally and took advantage of the TMV Brand, you would be building something bigger, more cool Think big, where is the Skype conference call idea really headed? What is the logical evolution of this idea? Well, I think it is probably "The TMV World Forum Conference"... a regularly scheduled thing that is put together and moderated by someone that is cool and that I can trust and we invite lot of people to it. We announce it in the newsletter and social media... Hell, me or someone else could do a video on it... ... Just saying...

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The only two people I've come in contact through the skype topic, MB included, are students of singing, not "rival" teachers. The only thing we've done so far is what we've been doing on the forum all along, only a bit more quickly (a skype advantage) and possibly not in as much depth (a skype disadvantage). Just saying.

It is not about "rival" teachers BTW.. I don't have 'rival' teachers? As I stated, its about following the 'no poaching' rules on the forum... and i think its also stimulating a rethink about the idea to be even better and more encompassing. We'll see if anyone steps up to take advantage of the opportunity I described above?

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I agree with Robert. If you are going to organize a skype conference of sorts it should at least be approved by the moderator before posting.

And it is also agreed that there was no harm intended just an aspect that was overlooked. It is a great Idea and would be a benefit.

One of the things that I like about this forum is the fact that there does not seem to be any rivalries between the different programs or the other teachers/coaches. I have read in this Forum Robert mentioning alot of the other programs when he believes it will help clarify things for one of us and I have never read a post where any of these teachers said anything bad about another teacher.

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I will be honest with you, voice teachers can be very territorial and are competitive in their nature. That is just the honest truth, but that goes for other professions as well. Having said that, there is a code of conduct and behavior that is expected among teachers in the business that we try to maintain. Apart from the obvious, that you don't want to dish your colleagues, more and more, ... the community of voice teachers are opening up and realizing there is more to gain by being open minded, working together and partnering, than there is fighting to prove your always right and being 'catty' with others. There are very large vocal organizations that are suffering today due to arrogance, refusal to update long standing ideas that need to be updated and an unwillingness to partner with other teachers. Those that cling to the old attitudes will melt down.

I believe the new attitude of cooperation and sharing ideas is very recent... When I launched TC-Helicon's Voice Council web site and then later, TMV... teachers began to recognize that the times were changing for the better.

Its how you manage it and what you do with it that really counts.

So anyways,... any leaders ready to step up and organize a more formal "TMV World Forum" conference calls?

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I understand you completely. I would love to be a moderator if it's possible. If I do become a moderator how many other people will be joining me to pick up the slack? I also want to you to know that I would never purposely harm the activity on this site, so my apologies for that.

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I definitely agree with Robert. The Skype lessons are in violation of the Forum rules. Also, Robert and the rest of the "TMV Leadership Team" have busted our asses building this Forum and the "Main Site" for nearly four years. Personally, I haven't missed a single day reviewing each and every post in the Forum and reviewing each and every members' profile page in the "Main Site" since "DAY ONE" ! And yes, Robert pays dearly to keep this site up and running for the benefits of the entire membership !

As for recruiting new blood as Keith mentioned, and izzles' offer to become a moderator (the latter obviously being Robert's decision) I'd like to extend an invitation to any and all members to join me with recruitment. Kindly note my article >> "The Modern Vocalist : Seeking Managers of Community Development".

It can be located by clicking on this link :

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profiles/blogs/the-modern-vocalist-seeking

Honestly, it doesn't take a considerable amount of time and your assistance will be sincerely appreciated. Anyone interested can contact me at any time.

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I can help setting up sessions, if we schedule weekly around 2200 gmt.

Btw, my interest was more on talking more freely and live, and being able to exchange and demonstrate some ideas in real time, not to just teach out of the blue.

I do understand the point and I agree, against the rules, nothing to argue about it.

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I definitely agree with Robert. The Skype lessons are in violation of the Forum rules. Also, Robert and the rest of the "TMV Leadership Team" have busted our asses building this Forum and the "Main Site" for nearly four years. Personally, I haven't missed a single day reviewing each and every post in the Forum and reviewing each and every members' profile page in the "Main Site" since "DAY ONE" ! And yes, Robert pays dearly to keep this site up and running for the benefits of the entire membership !

As for recruiting new blood as Keith mentioned, and izzles' offer to become a moderator (the latter obviously being Robert's decision) I'd like to extend an invitation to any and all members to join me with recruitment. Kindly note my article >> "The Modern Vocalist : Seeking Managers of Community Development".

It can be located by clicking on this link :

http://www.themodernvocalist.com/profiles/blogs/the-modern-vocalist-seeking

Honestly, it doesn't take a considerable amount of time and your assistance will be sincerely appreciated. Anyone interested can contact me at any time.

It is good to know Im not totally losing my mind here for a change... I appreciate your support team.

Also, take Adolph up on his 'shout-out'... We have a lot of opportunities available to help make the community thrive and grow if anyone is interested in helping out as a Community Development Manager or moderator.

Anyone else interested in helping Izz & Felipe? MB? Olivier? Bob?

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First of all, I'd just like to apologise. I didn't realise that was actually against the rules (!) If i had known, I would not have posted the topic. The only reason I did it was because i had seen a few random skype addresses posted around and thought it could be a way to consolidate them and just generally get to know everyone a bit better. I did say in the original post that it was not intentionally trying to detract from the forum but i do appreciate what you are saying Robert.. just know that my intentions were pure! :D

The conference call idea is fantastic. I could not agree more that by using the TMV brand something like this could be done on a more professional level that could benefit everyone and give a real sense of community. In hindsight it would have been much better to have suggested something like this rather than starting the skype thread, but i did not want to overstep my position!

As for the notion of being a moderator or helping out in any way, I'd love to get involved! I'm on the forum daily and would love to take on a more active role.

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I know MB, its cool... let's just do this the right way...

So it seems that people are interested. So, Do it! Here is the mission I believe, let me know if you guys think of anything else:

1). Izz, since you piped in first, why don't you kick it off by contacting Felipe & MB and anyone else that wants to be involved in in this and discuss the following:

- Decide among you , who will be the facilitator of the meetings or probably better yet, you all decide to be facilitators of the meetings. As a group, you create a new Skype account and use the TMV World logo as the avatar and just make it have a TMV World vibe to it. You share the login, (I suppose share it with me, Adolph and Bob as well our moderators, just so we have it on file) and then whom ever is the host of the conference call on any given session, they will have the team login for the tom world Skype.

- Determine a standing, regular time that works for most people. I think it may need to be in the morning North American time and afternoon European time so both continents can participate, for example: 9:00 am in Seattle is 6:00 pm in Europe.

- Create a blog that has the announcements in it that people can go to to check on times and topics. Probably create a duplicate post on the main site as well that always sits out on the home page at www.themodernvocalist.com.

- instead of making it a just a random visit... maybe it would be good to create some topics of discussion around each session, probably inspired by discussions here on the forum , so for example;

-- Tuesday the 10th - Discussing more musculature development and how that can make you sound more chesty.

-- Tuesday the 17th - A Discussion about definitions of 'training' vs 'learning'.

-- Tuesday the 24th - Special goest, Steve Fraser will discuss formant signatures with spectrograph software. ( you can bring in goes speakers)

-- Tuesday the 31st -- Have a panel of experience TMV World Forum members critique your singing (invite people to offer links in the chat and the 3-4 guys that have experience can help these people... "critique my singing" basically".

-- Tuesday the 8th -- Robert Lunte discusses top dynamic microphones to be used for training.

And so on...

- Create some basic rules around;

-- conference ettiquette, how to not interrupt and take your turn on a conference.

-- Technology requirements, getting set up for skype.

-- Determine a way to capture any highlights, notes... ideas that were meaningful. I think if we are going to do this, we need to capture the good ideas that are discussed, innovations, etc... we don't have to become like the journal of voice, but someone be designated as the "meetings keeper" or "scribe" who will write a VERY simple summary or bullet points of what was discussed, challenges discussed, solutions proposed, results, other good ideas... just record the notes on the new conference call forum.

-- VERY IMPORTANT: We can't use the conference as a forum for pitching products or schools. This is not an MLM call... if we let that happen, it will fall apart. It has to remain educational and none-school/product biased. of course you can refer to products and schools to make a point or in the context of a technique that works... but the calls are not about direct marketing & sales.

-- you probably want an official time length of discussion like 2 hours, but of course can go one for hard core types if you want to.

-- If you can find way to record the discussions and then archive the discussions in a box.net fodder, THAT would be bad ass and really interesting to some people I think. could be as easy as just turning on a little cheap digital memo recorder and laying it by your computer. Again, trying to archive or record the details of the discussion for future possible research or ideas. I can provide you with a link to my box.net account that has lots of room and make the moderators have admin rights to this folder for uploading. We should probably allow the files to be downloaded and streamed as MP3s as well.

Essentially, it is a broadcast. It's a talk show... like the Anderson Cooper show (N.American Journalist that has a show)... its like a round-table or "town meeting" that is broadcasted, recorded/noted and archived for future benefits to all. That is essentially the format and 'vibe' this will lead to...

When its all set up and ready to go, Ill see to it that it is marketed and advertised the rest of the community on the social site, the forum and the social media sites like TMV World Facebook, etc...

i don't know where this will lead to beyond the above, but it will lead to something cool, educational and possibly some new ideas around how to learn about singing. With guests, who knows... so let's invent and innovate here and do something that has never quite been done before.

Now we are maximizing the potential of this forum for the world of singing...

:cool:

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Wow! I've missed so much over the course of a week.

Robert, I like a lot of ideas you proposed in your last message. I'm up for being a moderator if you need another one. Also, if I was on the call, we would be able to do is as a video conference since I have Skype Premium. Does anyone else interested in moderating have Skype Premium? I'm not sure what's the limit to how many people we can have on one call.

One thing I would like to suggest is having two separate discussion times since people are joining from all over the world. Have one discussion in the evening for people in North America, then another discussion that would correspond to evening time for those in Europe. The discussions don't necessarily have to be on the same day, but this would give everyone a chance to participate, because if you set it to morning for North America, it excludes many that have to work during the day. So let's say something like 6PM PST/9PM EST would work well for one discussion time, then a similar time for those in Europe, depending on where the larger percentage of our European participants are. Or perhaps, we could just do it on Sunday at one time, which would give more people access to it.

Just some ideas.

Hope you're having a great 4th!

~~Dante~~

I was just about to make that statement.

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well since we are on the topic i would like to propose my idea of having "THE PUT UP OR SHUT UP FORUM" in this forum you cannot answer a question without an audio (preferable a video) answer. If you're answering a question about the antagonism between the ct and ta for example or support and breathing you have to show an example in a song and a vocalise. This way when someone is talking about singing in a certain range around the c5 E5 area and someone chimes in saying well you have to do this or that. The person answering could give an example of how he or she does it not just answer back in a bunch of terms (methods). That someone else might not know. Some guys know Sls some Cvt some Pillars some vennard etc

the only problem is I'm not that computer savvy. Does someone have a way to shoot vid and post immediately..

We could also do this on the video conferences as well.

What do you think?

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Robert - I think this is pretty cutting edge - I like the idea a lot. I think a skype conference is the wave of the future as an addition to a forum, and your forum might as well lead the way.

I like Dante's idea of the Video Conference calls. There would be a timing problem on weekdays for those of us that have to work. If we do separate times for different continents it would be ok, but the different continents wouldn't be able to interact with each other as much. Doing it on the weekend - saturday or sunday - would alleviate that. Most People can deal with schedules easier on weekends. And it may be better to start out with just one day a week. If we do too many days, right away, it may get diluted. We don't want the moderators to be on call and then no one shows up. That could be frustrating. It can always grow depending on the interest level.

Daniel - I like your idea. I hate not being able to post a quick audio clip to demonstrate something, but I too, am not that computer savvy when it comes to posting stuff on line. I could use help with that. It would be nice to have a section of the forum just dedicated to the technical aspects - like setting up a youtube account - posting a youtube video, using box.net, etc.

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Hi Guys.. this is gonna be SUPER!!

I have an input - leave it to all of you to decide if it works.. Skype Premium is a paid service.. However, Google Hangout (a part of Google +) allows multi person video chat for free.. Do you think that may work out better in the long run??

I think these sessions are gonna rock, specially if they can be recorded for the archives.. Great going all!! \m/

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My gut thoughts on this:

1). Dante, I think your help on the team would be valuable due to your experience as a coach and as a Skype user. Please reach out to Izz, Felipe, and MB. I still feel we need to put the project management team together for it. We need you guys to sort that out.

2). Daniel, if there is anyone that appreciates your "put up or shut up" tough love approach, it might be me. It has merit for sure and will raise the bar for the forum and challenge EVERYONE more, however, I don't think we should make answering with A/V media a rule, simply because it takes more work, it takes more understanding of technology, it takes more time, it complicates the communication process and that process should remain easy for everyone. It will already be a bit of a challenge for some people just to get Skype downloaded, installed, working on their machines, etc... to make people then orient themselves with the work involved in making A/V files and uploading, will be too much for some... the result?... loss of interest and participation, THAT is my concern.

"put up or shut up" should just be a "best practice" expectation. It should be something that everyone should be trying to do anyways. It is the culture of the forum. Some people lead and inspire others to do it by their examples. It will catch on if it becomes the modus operandi and others are doing it, we don't have to make it policy. We need written responses as well, there are a lot of smart cookies on here.

Geno: Technical requirements can be a simple discussion someone creates. Just work flows and steps or embedded youtube tutorial videos on how to set up SKYPE and how to do box.net. These companies have nice tutorials on YouTube anyone can watch.

MB - Let's keep it on Skype. More people know how to use and there re probably other benefits as well. What is it for the premium account on Skype for video conferencing, $5/mth? Who cares? I'll pay for that... just let me know when you guys are ready.. I can have an account set up and hand over the keys to the project management team as early as tomorrow morning, Seattle time/PST.

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Elrathion, reach out to the project management team. Email on other ideas you may have that do the following:

1). drive more web traffic not only to the forum, but to the rest of the web site; social media, interviews, product reviews, the tmv world directory, etc...

2). improve the service for all members and friends.

3) assist our Community Development Managers in operations. Contact Adolph Namlik to discuss becoming a Community Development Manager for TMV World.

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