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Getting rid the cackle/squeeze on A4

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D.Starr
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OK so I reaching new heights with singing. The tension is slowly dropping off. I've noticed that my neck no long squeezes and strains when I sing. My voice feels a lot smoother as well.

Current thing I've been doing is aiming the sound at the soft palate. Really helping my singing, creates a natural twang which I have. Also stopped trying to be tension free and falling into the usual thing of flipping or breaking because I'm literally letting go of everything. I add more grit as I sing, I hold onto the right things as I sing higher.

Lately though I've found my A4s to be slightly cackly/whiney sounding and wondered what things I could lean towards and develop to get a more open sound rather than a whiney noise.

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OK so I reaching new heights with singing. The tension is slowly dropping off. I've noticed that my neck no long squeezes and strains when I sing. My voice feels a lot smoother as well.

Current thing I've been doing is aiming the sound at the soft palate. Really helping my singing, creates a natural twang which I have. Also stopped trying to be tension free and falling into the usual thing of flipping or breaking because I'm literally letting go of everything. I add more grit as I sing, I hold onto the right things as I sing higher.

Lately though I've found my A4s to be slightly cackly/whiney sounding and wondered what things I could lean towards and develop to get a more open sound rather than a whiney noise.

Honestly you should not take advice from this thread because the advice could be detrimental and cause a set back.

From what you are describing it sounds like you are getting more vocal fold closure and your voice is just not strong and coordinated enough to find the balance yet. As soon as you get stronger in that area the voice will start to open up.

Post a clip so we won't just be giving random advice off of hear say.

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As izzle said, you sound like you are doing fantastic. I think you should still be open to some advice from forum members, and I second posting a clip, but don't let go of the fundamentals you have developed. Aiming the voice at the soft palate, twanging, releasing neck tension, and keeping a moderate degree of muscularity in the high notes are undeniable signs that you're heading in the right direction.

Until you post a file, I'm going to have to assume that by "cackly and whiny" you mean is sounds too bright, piercing, shrill, quacky. Is that what you mean?

When you get that kind of sound, that's a GREAT starting point in your training, but then you need to learn how to darken the sound by lowering the larynx a bit, while still retaining some of the brightness of the twang. It becomes a balancing act between the twang and the lowered larynx.

http://thevocaliststudio.com/tutorials-and-sample-phonations/ These are free audio lectures from Robert Lunte, who I'm currently training with, check out the one called "What is the TVS Intrinsic Anchoring Set", he explains what I'm saying in greater depth and how to do it.

I fear that telling him to lower the larynx might cause him to create a breathy/pushed tone. I really believe that he is just not strong enough in that area yet which is why the sound isn't open yet. The vocal folds are not quite strong enough to hold back the breath pressure on their own, so other extrinsic muscles of the larynx and tongue are trying to assist. I firmly believe that this will dissipate as time goes on and he gains more strength within this area to hold back the breath pressure with the vocal folds alone and without the help of the constrictors.

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Yeah it's a squeezed quacky, shrill noise.

I unfortunately can't post anything at the moment because it's 01:08AM in the UK. I'll make sure I post something tomorrow though.

It could simply be like Izzle said, I'm not strong enough in that area yet. I have 4 Pillars by Rob, might just have to keep doing the sirens.

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I agree with Iz's first response.

So, in my words, let it go. Let it sound cackly for now. It will change, trust me. It's totally expected to make odd sounds or sound that seem odd to you, at the time.

And you are already one heck of a rock singer in my books. You have incredible tone and emotion. Never lose that.

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I agree with Iz's first response.

So, in my words, let it go. Let it sound cackly for now. It will change, trust me. It's totally expected to make odd sounds or sound that seem odd to you, at the time.

And you are already one heck of a rock singer in my books. You have incredible tone and emotion. Never lose that.

Haha thanks.

I've been doing some Goo's and Gee's everyday up and down into my chest at around G3 ish, it's airy and light but it's helping to connect my lower and upper register. The breaks are disappearing and this is only after 2 weeks or so. Also the warm Daniel Formica demonstrated in his thread, the holding the tongue with pursed lips and making a slight raspberry noise while ascending up in scales helps build my resonance and warms my voice is very quickly.

Something else I've been doing which I found from Kevin Rodgers is saying Nun and holding the n. Dropping the tongue from the roof of my mouth I hold the N and go up and down in scale, holding for 20/30 seconds to feel the resonance in my soft palate and work it in. Then I do a few Mastering Mix by Brett for warm ups, mainly Ah stacattos and chesty stuff, a few goo's and gee's for the head. It's all helped so much in under a month or so.

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I agree with Iz's first response.

So, in my words, let it go. Let it sound cackly for now. It will change, trust me. It's totally expected to make odd sounds or sound that seem odd to you, at the time.

And you are already one heck of a rock singer in my books. You have incredible tone and emotion. Never lose that.

Very inspirational Ron :cool:

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How do you know he is twanging? The larynx will rise if the vocal folds are not strong or coordinated enough to handle that type of sound. That's why I wouldn't recommend doing specific exercises to try to cure a symptom rather than the cause.

We would have to hear an example before we can truly access this issue.

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OK so the voice is recovering nicely. Think it's because I over did it a little on some twanging exercises. Was the roof of my mouth that was really sore.

This guy is from the UK has a vocal style that is similar to mine. This is the type of A4 that I'm looking for.

It does sound a little whiney and once I get it I would like to darken it slightly.

Check it out. Your name is the A4 I believe.

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OK so the voice is recovering nicely. Think it's because I over did it a little on some twanging exercises. Was the roof of my mouth that was really sore.

This guy is from the UK has a vocal style that is similar to mine. This is the type of A4 that I'm looking for.

It does sound a little whiney and once I get it I would like to darken it slightly.

Check it out. Your name is the A4 I believe.

His A4 is "falsetto"

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Really? Interesting. Sounds like it has a lot more behind the sound than just falsetto. I tried it falsetto but I feel it sounds weak, maybe I should reinforce my falsetto.

Nope it's not connected and slightly breathy. For a tenor that was not the best demonstration.

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Actually, I take that back. What he did at 1:29 wasn't truly falsetto...it's almost like he was attempting to keep it connected, but lost the closure and got airy/blasty. The cords went into a similar open position like they do for falsetto. It's not a stable position at all, and can cause you more of a headache trying to go for that. The example at 3:15 was a good one, though. If you can manage to consistently do what he did at 3:15, then to do the earlier stuff becomes more simple -- just a matter of letting that sound get a little airy.

~~Dante~~

I agree with Dante.

3:15 was wayyyyyy better. That should be your aim...Just keep everything connected and be patient.

Your voice will grow.

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Just a few tries at the chorus part. Haven't warmed up because I just got home from work and still have a slightly sore throat.

https://www.box.com/s/61198bcbb9ea1f8b06eb

https://www.box.com/s/de5e7b5006b1f259fe67

I did feel some squeeze, it was cool trying to find the balance between the breathyness and some edge and connection.

Going to try this again on Wednesday, which mean I will have had a singing lesson so I'll be nicely warmed up.

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When I read these threads I get a little confused...sorry...duh :) I am confused because I never understand if people are thinking the singer is doing something special or "planned" or if the poster is just trying to figure a way of mimicking a sound. I mean a scientist may approach a chef and want exact ingredients for a fantastic recipe and being a scientist would be sure there has to be exact measurements. But the chef may be perplexed and say "I don't know and never thought about it. I just throw stuff together. "

I'd be willing to bet that the guy in the video has no clue what he is doing, he is just singing. In areas he feels he needs or wants to be higher he just goes higher whichever way feels natural for him. He may not be ever thinking (or even know) about connection, head, falsetto, Chord closure or anything else. If you were to ask him he may say "wuuut?" Whatever you're hearing just happens to be "his" voice. Without trying.

So maybe I'm just thick :D

But if people are just trying to figure a way (like a trick) to sound like someone else then ok, I can understand that. But if they think the singer has some secret or is doing something special or some odd "technique" then I'm confused and I think many are chasing ghosts. :)

I understood the original post and the improvements the poster is seeking. That makes sense. But when it moves towards an example or a comparison to another singer? Well, that's someone else's voice and not necessarily a technique.

No offense, just an opinion and a bit of confusion. :)

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To Tommy: I believe it may not always be that we wish to know a "secret recipe" that would help us out in all our endeavours. I know for me, asking about certain singers is more often that not partly a way to reproduce that kind of sound (I say kind of sound since we all have as you say, our own voices) but also to confirm technical terms in regards to actual singing sound. I know I often ask to know if the sound I hear is a certain type of technique or technically labeled term so I know I have understood something and from now on can use that term to help tell to others about what I might be experiencing :)

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To Tommy: I believe it may not always be that we wish to know a "secret recipe" that would help us out in all our endeavours. I know for me, asking about certain singers is more often that not partly a way to reproduce that kind of sound (I say kind of sound since we all have as you say, our own voices) but also to confirm technical terms in regards to actual singing sound. I know I often ask to know if the sound I hear is a certain type of technique or technically labeled term so I know I have understood something and from now on can use that term to help tell to others about what I might be experiencing :)
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Just a few tries at the chorus part. Haven't warmed up because I just got home from work and still have a slightly sore throat.

https://www.box.com/s/61198bcbb9ea1f8b06eb

https://www.box.com/s/de5e7b5006b1f259fe67

I did feel some squeeze, it was cool trying to find the balance between the breathyness and some edge and connection.

Going to try this again on Wednesday, which mean I will have had a singing lesson so I'll be nicely warmed up.

Need to know if these sounds ok or not. I can do the your name multiple times, I feel some distortion on it which is annoying, the more I do it the more comfortable and easy it is. The main struggle I found was singing the verse and going into the your name, seems like I'm going from 2nd to 5th in gears, jamming into it. I guess it will slowly come.

I'd post some ore efforts of it but my son is currently asleep next to me at the moment.

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Need to know if these sounds ok or not. I can do the your name multiple times, I feel some distortion on it which is annoying, the more I do it the more comfortable and easy it is. The main struggle I found was singing the verse and going into the your name, seems like I'm going from 2nd to 5th in gears, jamming into it. I guess it will slowly come.

I'd post some ore efforts of it but my son is currently asleep next to me at the moment.

The first attempt was the best in my opinion. I feel that this sound will build the foundation for the softer dynamics.

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Yeah I liked the first one.

I was playing around with it a lot on the way home from work. Every time getting better, it's a weird feeling of balancing "chest" and "head" it feels really comfortable and easy whenever I get it though.

I've cut down on doing it today though, I know bad habits set in when you do it too much.

I'll post some more efforts tomorrow.

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Yeah I liked the first one.

I was playing around with it a lot on the way home from work. Every time getting better, it's a weird feeling of balancing "chest" and "head" it feels really comfortable and easy whenever I get it though.

I've cut down on doing it today though, I know bad habits set in when you do it too much.

I'll post some more efforts tomorrow.

That is the true definition of one voice.

No flipping, blending, cracking, or any other break.

Just connection...Good job.

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