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VOWEL MODIFICATION & DIPHTHONG VIDEO LECTURE - TVS & Robert Lunte

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Robert Lunte

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I hope you guys won't mind if I leave something here :)

It's the actual IPA vowel chart (though I'm sure it's been posted here somewhere)

And examples of how these symbols sound:

Front (lateral)

/i/ keen

/I/ thin

/e/ chaos

/ε/ bet

/ae/ bat

Back (rounded)

/É‘/ father

/É”/ all

/o/ no

/U/ look

/u/ fool

Central:

/É™/ ahead

Otherwise I agree that a vowel one-step removed in the "closed" direction would be a good way to proceed. I'd go as far as advising that even before the passaggio a degree of "closed" (not muffled, not hooty) sound shought be sought for.

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Thanks for your contribution fellas... there is no one way of doing these things... and there are many different vowel combinations you can experiment with. Understand, a composition like this is designed for beginners mostly and for 'teaser' content on YouTube for new clients... it wasn't produced to argue over small margins of slightly different approaches. When you have beginners coming in and choking on Iron Maiden and Dream Theater songs, this type of vowel modification gets results.

Mark, I am into big, boomy M2 phonations. It is just my thing... I like it and so do my clients. I'm not into doing polite little "guh, guh, guhs" and "nay, nay, nays"... it doesn't interest me one bit because it's application to real singing... at least vocals that require a lot of velocity, range and M2 development, is far too weak. "ee" & "oo" for the common guy that is just trying to sing difficult rock songs in a cover band that have notes into register M2, are chokers. Actually sing the songs and try to make them not sound like a polite choral boy and you'll see what my clients deal with. Also, how much you modify is important. In my example here, my modification was probably extreme as I was trying to make my point, but a modification in this way can be subtle.

I look forward to any audio or video presentation you may offer to make your points. Included in that should be some impressive vocal demonstrations of your ability to bridge and singing assertively into M2 with great power. We should see and hear clear and concise explanations of very complicated concepts and please do try to do it all in one take in a way that has entertainment value and visual interest. Thanks for your feedback and keeping me and everyone thinking... I look forward to seeing or hearing it.

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Sure, I can get on board with that.

Rob, just to clarify, as I'm picking up on some irked tones in your response, my intent was not to attack your video or your vocal ability or your teaching ability - far from it, I think they are excellent - and I think I acknowledged that in my post. I was really just only picking up on some theory points within your video you discussed that I wasn't 100% settled on myself, and how they played out in the voice. I'm sorry if that was taken the wrong way.

I will do my best to meet your expectations.

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Mark, I know you mean well and I also know your points are good and are well taken. I just don't 'get' the use of 'ee' & 'oo' inside of M2... ok, if you want to sound choral and sing in falsetto, but the muscularity to phonate said closed vowels in aggressive genres into the head zone is just not there unless you constrict into it. Well, there is another way... you can have twang, but it sounds too quaky, you don't get the 'boomy' formant. I don't want to sound quacky or falsetto. It needs to sound big and belty.

Mark, I don't have any expectations from you, other than to pipe in and make your contribution as you did. You are fine.

As for my disposition... one of my biggest 'peeves' is when you put yourself out there as the sole risk taker, the innovator, the guy that puts his nuts on the line... and then here come the critiques from the sidelines from those that will not take the risk, do not take the time, effort or energy to do it themselves. I just hate the "Monday morning quarterback" experience that inevitably comes in this business from spectators, when you produce and publish content that takes risks and shows mojo.

I'd like to hear the "me & you" on the same notes and Id like to hear it sound big, boomy and something you could actually use in front of an audience. That is what I want to hear, not some polite phonation you would make in a typical singing lesson.

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folks, let's not forget how much proper support plays into these vowel mods too. you still have to have the breath pressure (and requisite development) to phonate strongly up high. and when you get the right pressure into the right resonating pocket there's that unmistakable release that tells you you've hit the most efficient resonating zone.

singers have to experience that release. then when thet get aquainted with it, and how it feels (more than how it sounds) they have to learn to replicate it.

that's why armed with the basic vowels to narrow to is only 1/2 of the total skillset. the singer must experiment with the most efficient modification per their particular voice.

just moving towards "uh" or "ah" isn't going to cut it.

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That is a good point Bob... respiration support is always in there... and each individuals vocal tract requires different calibrations of modification into the vowel. You have to tune the voice, each individual vocal tract and where that tuning will go is not known, until you work with it. Some students modify to less uh and more eh and the timing of when you do it is different as well.

At TVS, we are not trying to tune to the vowel, as much as to the harmonic... specifically, an amplified 2nd harmonic in the formant, as I understand it from smarter people than I.

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I do not fully understand what vowel modification is. I may not be hearing what I am supposed to but it seems like he is just changing from one vowel to another. Modification to me would imply that there would be the addition of the second vowel but still keep some form of the original vowel. I would like to record this into adobe auditions spectral analysis and see if I can tell if the formants for both vowels are there but I am not sure how to read the spectrogram. anyone know how to interpret the spectrogram

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Shrunken, it sounds like you might need to see a few of the posts from Steven Fraser on the subject.

As for the vowel, I have said this before and will say it again. For I have the central pieces of 4 Pillars 2.0. More important than the written word, more important than how Lunte talk-tracks through the video, more important than the visuals with his hands, please, listen, listen, LISTEN to what he does with the vowel sound. I know I am blunt with the highlights on the word listen but sometimes you have to use a 2 x 4 to get attention with a 50 % chance of getting the point across.

The vowel is for tuning. Some vowels are higher, some lower, some closed, some open and splatty. Watch "Rainbow in the Dark" live at the Waacken 2004. When Dio wants to get "distorted," he moves to short a, as in cat or hat. For a gritty "dark," he is actually singing "dak." When he goes to the aw or ah sound, it gets very clean, on the higher notes. He changes vowel sound, depending on what he is doing. He also stays within what his voice will do well, which he mentioned in at least one interview that I know of.

The meaning or articulation of the word is in the consonants or stops.

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I watched the video again. I am new to the termanology but is vowel modification any vowel sound other than the pure vowels u, i, e, o. ah(frissels book).

In my experience and understanding, yes.

And, especially in english and most especially american english, dipthongs are the downfall.

But, essentially, shifting from one vowel focus to another can solve a tuning problem. The word "love" as spoken in american english, at least where I am from, is with an uh sound with a low tongue, which tends to detune the sound, making it a bit flat. I took a hint from Glenn Hughes and modified toward the (italian) oo sound, singing "l(oo)ve" and it worked much better, keeping the note in tune. But the average listener just hears "love." Singing the oo sound raises the tongue a bit, aiding in resonance.

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Another example of a useful vowel change is in the song "Come Sail Away" by Styx. Dennis DeYoung sings the line "I'm sailing away ...." Concentrating on just the word "away," it is ah-weh-ee. And it lasts on the ee sound. The eh sound is transitory.

When I think of dipthongs, I think of german. For example a and u are pronounced ah and oo. But the combination of a nd u, such as in the word fraulein, is pronounced oy, which is two sounds in itself, oh and ee.

But we do that with the word boy.

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Yes I learned american english and spanish but now that I have discovered the use of the italian vowel pronunciations I must think in a different way when pronouncing words that I have used for years with american pronunciations. I have noticed that my words are much clearer and articulate especialy when recorded

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Yes I learned american english and spanish but now that I have discovered the use of the italian vowel pronunciations I must think in a different way when pronouncing words that I have used for years with american pronunciations. I have noticed that my words are much clearer and articulate especialy when recorded

As I had learned, also. You will be amazed at how the right vowel sound, regardless of the word, frees up your voice. And when I find myself straining or flat, I can trace to one of two things. Breath pressure or vowel. Which is good for me as I am a simple guy and prefer simple solutions.

edited for spelling. if I could just learn to write my own language, english. I think faster than I type and miss words and letters.

:rolleyes:

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Yes for years I just sang in english(I was born in new orleans) as I would pronunciate when speaking the words and got by ok especially here in south america. recently I decided to study voice for the first time to make gains in my head voice of which I had never developed. there is so much more that needs to be addressed than just learning the pitches as it seems that notes with american vowel changes I can easily manipulate in chest voice just dont work as easily in head voice so I started to change to Italian vowels and am finaly making progress. I still dont have much volume in high head tones but everyday it seems to get better I am just 2 months in so I am happy with the progress so far.

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Shrunken, it is actually a very complicated thing... but just keep it simple for now... the vowel you sing through, changes the shape of the vocal tract / resonant space. It manipulates the physiology. So as voice teachers and students of singing, when training... we modify vowels to manipulate the physiology to favorable configurations that will enable us to do different things such as; bridge the passaggio better, have more interarytenoid and vocalis activity in the head voice/m2, sing with deeper placement... etc.

We also can play with diphthongs and modify vowels in singing when we have to sing closed vowels, which can choke singers and engage constriction in our lyrics.

So vowel modification is important for different reasons in training and for singing as well. I thought my video was fairly clear.... its a big topic with lots of variables and options, but this is a basic run down of it.

At The Vocalist Studio,, we train with vowels modification for both reasons. We use it for building strength, dexterity, coordination. TVS students learn to 'command and control' their larynx when training and singing. We also use it as a technique for learning how to sing lyrics in songs... particularly when you are singing inside of M2/Head Voice.

My book, "The Four Pillars of Singing 2.0" has a complete vowel and consonant modification translators in it.

I hope this helps...

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I strongly disagree you can't sing I and O without constricting for high notes.

To say otherwise is blatantly to say that the entire school of CVT (and all the authorized teachers who can do it, students etc) and so many of the worlds best singers who do it (Dio, Jorn Lande, Michael Bolton, Russell Allen etc) are constricting - lol.

Are narrow vowels as boomy? No, but whether they are good or bad sounding should be up to the student to decide, not the teacher. Vowel shading is more appropriate term, you can sing f.ex. ah vowel all through even though it will be slightly shaded towards uh. The more skilled you are the more you can stray from the ideals and still keep it healthy.

Another example of a high narrow vowel; 2:22 (bel-*i*-eve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnfZzsU_RI

Anyone who can't do this is not using the correct setup for it. I'm not even gonna argue on this, to anyone who is in doubt just take a listen to some of the best technical singers who have sung for many years still in shape and see if you can't find tons of narrow vowels in there.

I realize a quick clip is not the same as a 2 hour concert, but I will at least try to back up my claims; here I am doing some sounds on a I vowel (CVT Curbing) - this felt great to do.

https://www.box.com/s/7b00ad918d22153635e1

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Ok I understand better now that part of what you are teaching is how to condition the vocal track to allow more "space" so that transitions are easier. I was confused when you were using the vowels uh and i(sit) as the book I am reading does not list them as pure vowels or even vowels at this point. I now see the part of the video that says if you are doing italian vowels different rules may apply.

no matter how straight forward you feel your video is there are always those of us beginners who will have questions thank you for answering me

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Robert Lunte wrote:

".... you know, listening to this "Stargazer" take, which is the original studio recording... I hear vowel modifications ALL over this?! I hear very TVS modifications all over this... ! Remember guys, when you are modifying for singing... you are modifying away from speech mode vowels generally speaking."

Small nugget that speaks volumes, if you will pardon the pun. Even if you don't pardon the pun. He just handed you the keys to the kingdom.

And, with an added thought on vowel modification. Each person has individual structure different from others. So, one exact, minute vowel mod may not work as well in your voice as it does in another voice. One voice seems to rattle the windows on ee. Another, not so much, but does better on eh.

So, hold a note and try different resonances by way of different vowels and see which ones make your eyes buzz.

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I strongly disagree you can't sing I and O without constricting for high notes.

To say otherwise is blatantly to say that the entire school of CVT (and all the authorized teachers who can do it, students etc) and so many of the worlds best singers who do it (Dio, Jorn Lande, Michael Bolton, Russell Allen etc) are constricting - lol.

Are narrow vowels as boomy? No, but whether they are good or bad sounding should be up to the student to decide, not the teacher. Vowel shading is more appropriate term, you can sing f.ex. ah vowel all through even though it will be slightly shaded towards uh. The more skilled you are the more you can stray from the ideals and still keep it healthy.

Another example of a high narrow vowel; 2:22 (bel-*i*-eve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxnfZzsU_RI

Anyone who can't do this is not using the correct setup for it. I'm not even gonna argue on this, to anyone who is in doubt just take a listen to some of the best technical singers who have sung for many years still in shape and see if you can't find tons of narrow vowels in there.

I realize a quick clip is not the same as a 2 hour concert, but I will at least try to back up my claims; here I am doing some sounds on a I vowel (CVT Curbing) - this felt great to do.

https://www.box.com/s/7b00ad918d22153635e1

Sun, this video was about vowel modification and some of its uses for training and for working with lyrics in songs. It was not about narrowing vowels and the possibility of that. We are training the benefits of narrow vowels at TVS.

Strengthening the interarytenoids and vocalis through training with narrow vowels and then applying this to singing is something that myself and all my students at TVS are spending a lot of time and focus on right now. I just had my long time student and teacher, Randy Loran leave my studio just 30 minutes ago after singing "Take Hold of The Flame" with narrow vowels and less open vowel modifications. I am personally spending a lot of time working on narrowing the vowels and the pedagogy around it to be able to teach effective techniques to students.

Closed vowels or 'narrow vowels' CAN be trained for a benefit, yes.... but they can also be a big problem, especially for beginners. You said the choice is up to the student? I disagree in most cases, most students will constrict and choke on narrow vowels and possibly get discouraged in the early stages of their training. When a student begins to migrate from open modified positions to more torqued narrow positions is up to the decision of both the teacher and student. If the students builds a strong foundation of onsets, bridging & connecting and can coordinate some intrinsic anchoring, they should explore narrow positions, its good vocal health and great for the musculature.

They are just two different approaches, equally legitimate... and me and my students train both. One is not better than the other. You don't always want to sound muscly, sometimes you want to 'float' more in your singing, especially for more lyrical songs. Vocal Athletes work to Master both...

I will make a video on narrow vowels and how to train with them one day soon, still experimenting with it. So I agree with you, they can be trained , but its more risky for beginners.

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Within the last 8 weeks or so, so yes, I suppose... Its in the 2.5 Pillars updates, we can work on it in our next sesh, you're probably up for it. The 'contract & release' onset is from that play book Owen. You do this to build interarytenoid strength and to reduce the necessity to modify to the open positions. It takes muscle to do it, we can work on it. Sometimes its cool, other times it doesn't sound that great... it all depends on the vocal tract and the song.

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I don't believe I or O are inherently worse than any other vowel.

Most singers I listen to use I and O in every song, personally I is the easiest vowel for me especially high. Yes some modify more towards Eh but I believe both are perfectly healthy it's more a stylistic thing.

2:40 - 2:49 Lots of I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJeBvNuYPMM

0:22 -> Most is EH

The vowel you train with, will be the one you are strong with. If your a vocal athlete, you'll experiment with training all of them.

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