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MDEW
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I need to issue a public apology to Robert and Izzle.

Robert,

I have done a lot of searching on the internet in the past several years for information on singing.

I had thought that I viewed your video "Falsetto is Not your head voice". I watched so many of those from other people that I assumed that I had watched yours. Most of my questions as a beginner were answered There.

I am neering 50 I have sang for most of those years. Mostly songs "in my range" wanting to sing the higher songs and not have to change "original key" to sing them(Boston's "More than a Feeling" sucks if you stay under G4). Most of the "Professional singers" in my area are those who sing in bar bands. If I asked one of them what a formant is they would say it's someone who gives information to the police. So no help from my peers.

My boss and his wife graduated from Burkly He was a piano teacher and has written musical scores for plays some on broadway. His wife and her mother regularly appeared on "tha Lawrece Welk Show" I asked her how to sing higher or in head voice. I told her I could sing in falsetto. She just looked at me and said falsetto is head voice. No help there either.

I have collected several books, cd's and dvd's over the years and by to days stardards they are way out of date.

Most of them have the same exorcises and the same content. Every now and then I would take them off the shelf reread them start the exorcises again and try to find out what I am missing. After a few months still no progress in actually singing. I could do the exorcises but not apply them.

I have always breathed with my diaphram. My stomache muscles and back muscles are engaged when I sing, ribs expanded. Still I would either choke, break or flip at G4. I could "sing" John denvers "Calypso" with those high notes. So I knew that I could get there eventually. Some sources would say support more others would say lighten the weight others more closure still others less closure. Very frustrating.

I wrote all this to let you know where my frustration is coming from. I never meant any personal attacks to anyone. There is a lot of confusion when it comes to information on how to sing. Over the years the same terms have come to mean different things. The way the voice works has been described in so many ways that is hard to get a clear understanding for what is really happening and what should happen.

And I know in your position if you use an outdated term because it is more recognizable by most people you will get attacked by someone who knows the correct term or better, the current term.

I did not mean to imply that you should create a file or pamplette or anything like that and give it away for free. You have given plenty on the internet and youtube to get most people started once they find it. There is an unbelievable amount of information in your pillars program. Well worth the money.

Izzle,

Because of my frustrations of trying this for years and self teaching, self training in a way that is not beneficial

to me. Trying to do the exorcises as I understand them. The frustrations of asking questions of those who know because they can do it. Some would say that they don't know how they do it. Others would say use more support . I would ask them how do use more support. I was doing what they said at least in my mind.

Any way In my mind at this time, Singing is anything but natural to me. I do not mean any personal attacks if I differ with you on any point. Its just a different point of view. In a couple of years when I'm sing F5's like they are nothing I may end up telling people singing is natural all you need to do is train.

I have found one source of my frustrations. Most of these other books and DVD's that I have treat the voice for one particular style. By that I mean one book may be Opera,one may be Country, one may be rock.

Now, With people like Robert Lunte ( I was going to name others but you know who they are) we have training systems that will cover all styles or modes. The confusion has been that there are different approaches to meet the demands or standards of the seperate styles. By seperating the different situations we have new directions and new tools to deal with them. There is no one thing fixes all.

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all depends on how you view the voice, do all of roberts exercises in "falsetto" strength will build overtime. Consider your falsetto untrained headvoice and youll be alright, i had those same questions when i started out. It went great once i just started going at the stuff not thinking to much about terminology.

There is no magic sound you need to find(with the exeption of perhaps twang) ;) just make what youve got stronger and things will start to come together

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MDEW... This public apology is not necessary. Allow me to tell you something about myself that some people reading this forum that have watched and read my work for the past four years since its inception already know. I am very passionate about my work and I truly care about singers. Not just my clients, but all singers. It is people like you and reading posts like that that give me a sense of purpose. I'm not doing this to just make a living, but I'm doing this because so many people get something out of it. I have stood on Masterclass stages and had people cry in front of me and the audience having hearing their voices for the first time with freedom and beauty. Countless emails everyday validate that what I'm doing is working and helping people. For this reason, I probably will never stop, its a mission. I am also a pretty good innovator, I have a talent for creating pedagogy and ideas for students to get results and I do my best to lead by example, time permitting as a singer or at least someone that demonstrates. That is the good part about me...

My challenge every day is managing my temperate disposition, especially in the written medium. I struggle a lot with posts that sometimes argue against my points and ideas. Maybe its my ego, maybe its my passion, maybe its a combination of both, but it manifests itself into a "snippy" tone sometimes. For that, I apologize to you if I seemed terse. Know that it is just 'noise' and I would invite you to not read anything into it beyond the moment, when it passes, it is over. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me at all, but it partly comes from my experiences from the past that were not pleasant in this business. However, you can be sure, were it not for those adverse experiences, The Modern Vocalist World may not even be here today. This forum and everything about this web site was born out my desire to tell a few key individuals from my past to kiss my butt and watch me succeed without them. Today, everyone enjoys this site so much and it really gives me pleasure that my struggle turned into something wonderful for so many people. If I come of terse in the future, please do not read too much into it, just know its me making 'noise' inside of a stressful day and nothing more.

In regards to your search, I am quite aware of your struggle. I get emails like this every day, literally. Confusion about voice technique and how to sing is a rampant plague and the lack of good... I mean REALLY brilliant voice teachers that truly can teach you the things everyone wants and needs to learn is so incredibly small on the planet. However, the good news is, I think here at the TMV World Forum, you have found the best place in the world to help sort out the confusion and get pointed in the right direction.

I'm going out on a limb here a bit, but I want to help you... in my view, if you invest in my product, "The Four Pillars of Singing 2.0" and/or the CVT book from my colleague Cathrine Sadolin... and then get voice lessons... you will find your way... and I couldn't be more honest about the situation if I tried. There are other great teachers, Tamplin, Vendera and Richards to name a few. Beyond that, I can't make any promises... but if you hunker down with these products and take private lessons... you will get results and be a happy man.

You don't need to apologize for anything, your involved in a very confusing and complicated endeavor. Myself and the rest of the team here will do our best to help guide you to achieve your goals. You CAN do it, you just need the right training content, teacher and stay close to this forum.

I hope this helps...

Thanks Jens... good advise.

Anyone else have advice for MDEW?

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Now that you mention it and Jens did also, Twang has confused me. One thing I read says twang epiglotis the thing that keeps food from going into windpipe. Another has the feeling of a squeeze from the side of neck. I can make the sound but I can do it a few different ways. My confusion is wich way is correct. The same goes for vocal fry and growl. I'm not asking anyone to go into detailed explanation just letting you know where my confusion is.

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just go quacky and witchy really witchy, dont bother with the actualy science behind it. save that for later, twang is basicly very very whiny a muscle coordination that needs to be strong for you to be able to gain better results. some know how to do this easy some need to build it up. Its very covered in TVS so check it out, most of roberts work consists of alot of twangwork down and dirty ;)

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Apologize? For what? I'm corn-fuse-d.

MDEW, I don't know who beat the crap out of you but get up and swing right back at them.

And don't worry, this singing stuff will get easier. And you have great tone in your higher notes, as I have heard them. So, quit holding yourself down.

Trust me, nothing would give me more emotional satisfaction than to confront your abusers and get physically in their face and let's get it on because daylight is burning. But that is not going to help you as much as you doing it for yourself.

Take all the people that have been beating you down and give them the one finger salute.

In fact, practice on me. I know your next step is to "apologize" for this thread. Don't. Tell me to go take a flying leap into a lake. Once you got that down nice and steady, you can use it on others.

Like the uninformed person that told you that vibrato was ugly and should not be present. Like the person that told you that you must absolutely strive to sing baritone and straight-tone.

I'll stop now, before I get revved up.

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I am finding out more and more that it is the aggressive in your face quality that I am lacking in my singing.

Maybe not aggressive but firm and confident.

Why the apology? I really felt that i needed to do this. Maybe my story will help others with similer issues.

I do tend to take the opposite view from Izzle and it is in no way personal. I just look at things different. Sometimes my comments distracted from the original idea of the thread and that was not my intention.

I made a comment about not finding content on the internet about TVS terminolgy. It had been awhile since I actually looked. There is loads of info from TVS. That was clearly an apology moment to me.

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Firm and confident is the right way to be.

Sing like you own the song. And quit listening to people that have been in your life that obviously don't have a clue. I know that sounds abrasive but what can I say? I'm in a "tough love" moment, I guess.

I am reminded of several moments in various movies dealing with old wise asian guys imparting wisdom. The student cannot absorb information until he empties his mind of misconceptions and assumptions. And that is the hardest thing you will ever do. Harder than a million scales. Harder than breathing exercises. More exhausting than all of that. For it is a matter of changing your mind and getting out of your own way.

Singing is mental.

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Apologize? For what? I'm corn-fuse-d.

MDEW, I don't know who beat the crap out of you but get up and swing right back at them.

And don't worry, this singing stuff will get easier. And you have great tone in your higher notes, as I have heard them. So, quit holding yourself down.

Trust me, nothing would give me more emotional satisfaction than to confront your abusers and get physically in their face and let's get it on because daylight is burning. But that is not going to help you as much as you doing it for yourself.

Take all the people that have been beating you down and give them the one finger salute.

In fact, practice on me. I know your next step is to "apologize" for this thread. Don't. Tell me to go take a flying leap into a lake. Once you got that down nice and steady, you can use it on others.

Like the uninformed person that told you that vibrato was ugly and should not be present. Like the person that told you that you must absolutely strive to sing baritone and straight-tone.

I'll stop now, before I get revved up.

Great Post Rob

MDEW you don't have to apologize to me because we are all here for the same reason, we have the same struggle, and the same passion.

I have learned a lot about singing and know a lot for my age, but I am still learning just like you. I really enjoy helping people with their issues with singing because it makes me happy, it makes them happy, and it actually gives me better understanding what I know myself. Giving someone else advice that worked for me and worked for others only validates the points that I try to make.

I just want you to know that I respond to your post because I am very confident that you can be the singer you want to be all you have to do is keep moving forward.

I never took your comments in a harsh way because I understand the feeling completely...I am just now beginning to really put the pieces of the puzzle together myself and I have been singing since I was 4 years old and I'm 23 now.

My advice is to just take it slow and make sure you practice consistently even if you don't know what the hell you're doing. Taking 3 steps forward and one step backwards is better than no progress at all.

By the way I am sure that if you find a way to invest money into get a great voice teacher you will move forward faster than you could ever imagine.

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And to one-up Iz, so to speak, I have been singing since I was a kid, as everyone in my family sang. But really singing songs since I was 10 and taught myself to play guitar so that I could play and sing the songs I could hear. It started with my step-grandparents' classical guitar, which only had 3 strings left on it. I started picking out the arpeggiated beginning to "Who'll Stop the Rain?" by Creedence Clearwater Revival.

But I didn't get full voice in the upper end of my range until 1988, with a book by Graham Hewitt. And I still learn something new about my voice every day. For those who have lost track or haven't read my gigantor compilation of posts, I am 48.

And the biggest thing I have learned? Getting out of my own way. You are the only one holding yourself back. Either through your own appraisal of yourself, or by allowing the misguided appraisal from others to affect you negatively.

It's a mental thing.

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Now that you mention it and Jens did also, Twang has confused me. One thing I read says twang epiglotis the thing that keeps food from going into windpipe. Another has the feeling of a squeeze from the side of neck. I can make the sound but I can do it a few different ways. My confusion is wich way is correct. The same goes for vocal fry and growl. I'm not asking anyone to go into detailed explanation just letting you know where my confusion is.

Well... if that is the best you can find on what twang is, no wonder your confused. Look, just quack like a duck , but instead of saying "quack" say, "quake" as in earthquake. Then quake like a duck four times, in the fourth time, hold an "Eh"..... vowel as in the word "eggs". So it becomes " quake, quake, quake, quehhhhhhhhhhhhk"... That is you twanging through a favorable training vowel, Eh. Now try doing the same thing on different pitches.

Wanna have fun with it? Try it in your head voice, but know you are going to have to really squeeze... maybe not, it depends on the individual.

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just go quacky and witchy really witchy, dont bother with the actualy science behind it. save that for later, twang is basicly very very whiny a muscle coordination that needs to be strong for you to be able to gain better results. some know how to do this easy some need to build it up. Its very covered in TVS so check it out, most of roberts work consists of alot of twangwork down and dirty ;)

Aw yes, I can see you are still an owner of an old Pillars 1.0 copy! LOL.. no, it has a lot of twang in it for sure... new stuff these days too... Jens was one of my first clients about 6 years ago or something I think. Remember when we chatted on Skype Jens, that was like 5 years ago or something.

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Thanks. I will try that Quehk thing. I have been doing sirens through a straw that way I can get as loud as I need to be to practice without disturbing any one.

The other day I was going to show my brother where I am having trouble. I sang REO Speedwagon's song Take it on the run in G. I usually choke on the chorus. I had to tell him "Well, Thats where I usually choke"

I was sure his guitar was tuned down a half step. So, there has been some gains for now.

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