Jump to content

Moving from Exercises to Practical Use

Rate this topic


xx
 Share

Recommended Posts

An issue I have is that when I do my exercises, I feel connected up to an A4. Meanwhile I can only sing a G#4 with any power. I'm pretty happy anyway, moving up from a pretty sketchy F4 to a G#4 in about 5 months. My goal starting out was an A4 though, so hopefully it comes eventually. Talking about a powerful mixed voice obviously.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask if anyone else has had similar issues, and if so how they overcame them. I guess in my case, I was probably feeling connected at a G# before I could actually sing it, so maybe the A will just come with time if I keep doing what I'm doing. Anyways, I figured this is likely a problem quite a few people have, so thought I'd open the discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's always this way, no one sings his highest possible note, so if it's a4 for you now, than being able to sing g#4 is cool. I guess there are no shortcuts or secrets, if you are already able to sing outside of you chest voice with power than you are on the right way, it's all about practice, i think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep pushing up? So basically just throw in an A at the end of my sessions and see what happens? Sounds easy. I guess that is how I found the Gs as well. In my case I'm probably just over-thinking it because the A is really where I want to be, so I'm putting more pressure on myself to get there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shoot for the High A. If you can find the note, then good. If you start to crackle, then take a break.

There's a huge difference between going into a mixed note and actually singing in mix(fully connected and full voice). It's a completely new register and it takes a lot of work for small amounts of progress.

I agree completely!

I can sing a F#5 in a light head voice all day, but the real work is when I try to coordinate and stay connected in the 5th octave. At this point I can only truly stay connected up to about an E5 then I feel a little strained trying to move to a higher pitch unless I disconnect.

There is nothing wrong with going into a disconnected head voice to strengthen the musculature coordination for the higher pitches and there is nothing wrong with singing in all chest voice to feel the proper vocal fold adduction and connection, but these training tools should only be used to strengthen each section of the voice.

True connection when you sing means you use both musculature setups simultaneously and there is no break ascending the scale or descending the scale.

Just keep practicing and take steps to solidify the pitches you have while slowly and gradually gaining more range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it's just that Bob has said that you can only sing rock in high chest voice and his preferred method is to carry or push chest high. Which makes any other method such as bridging early or use of head voice all wrong for singing rock.

The op was talking about basically pushing chest and I was saying, according to Bob, you're doing the right thing by continuiing to push up.

Of course, my opinion doesn't mean much and it's possible that I don't know what I am talking about. I'm Ron, the lazy, scared head-voice singer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So i guess i misunderstood, xx wants to sing high in chest? I think that's totaly scary and dangerous... I think that good, connected upper register sounds even cooler than chest voice, especialy if it's lifted as high as A4. I mean, it's possible to do that, but why would you do that? When i began i was pulling chest voice even to b4 and only after it i switched to upper register, but when other people explained me that i'm going to lose my voice this way i changed my methods and now i switch at g4 area, and everithing sounds more free, cleaner and better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So i guess i misunderstood, xx wants to sing high in chest? I think that's totaly scary and dangerous... I think that good, connected upper register sounds even cooler than chest voice, especialy if it's lifted as high as A4. I mean, it's possible to do that, but why would you do that? When i began i was pulling chest voice even to b4 and only after it i switched to upper register, but when other people explained me that i'm going to lose my voice this way i changed my methods and now i switch at g4 area, and everithing sounds more free, cleaner and better.

I don't push chest high, either, Doc. I'm just saying that's what others suggest. And I am lazy and a coward for bridging early.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't say I was pulling chest up. I was talking about my mixed voice. I would say my mixed voice has a little more chest than maybe it should, but I don't feel any strain or fatigue when singing so I think I'm okay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is that so... I think e record of your voice singing those notes could help us understand it better. I don't realy know all this theory well and i am a beginner actualy, but everyone say that i sing in mixed voice and it's just my natural gift, some people keep asking me how to do that, but i don't know :lol: , but i think that my 'mixed voice' is realy a well resonant head voice...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

according to Robert Lunte founder of this site - there is no such thing as a "Mixed voice" register- you are either in chest or head voice- there is a lot of confusing terms thrown around in voice pedagogy- I am finding my biggest problem is holding my breath while I sing- also working with vowel modification is extremely helpful for opening the voice up and experiencing what it is like to sing with out restriction. IMHO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You cannot and will never be able to push your chest voice past it's highest note, unless you employ some kind of operatic leggiero technique.

I am confused. What kind of operatic leggiero technique for pushing chest past its highest note? I was not aware of one and you may know something that I don't know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Need help on A4? I'm kinda stuck there as well.

CunoDante posted a really helpful .mp3 of a demonstration as well as an explanation that may help you.

Check my thread http://themodernvocalist.punbb-hosting.com/viewtopic.php?id=4612

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in addition to the other's advice, it's important to understand what actually makes those higher notes harder.

this applies to singing in a strong, chesty mixed voice..

with mixed voice, which is going to be the way to those notes, you are asking two sets of musculatures to work together that are naturally antagonistic towards each other. it takes a certain degree of strength coupled with balance.

then as you ascend into a higher place as owen said the vowel needs to me modified to a shade that allows you to release into the exact resonating pocket appropriate for that particular note and that particular vowel.

all of this takes work and practise. but it is the holy grail of singing connected. if you have a strong g4, that's an accomplishment in and of itself.

remember something...when you are trying to sing songs in a really powerful mix, e4 to a4 (generally speaking) this is a very tough part of your vocal range.

exercising is one thing...but actually singing songs in this range or having to sit up high in the upper part of that range is something else altogether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez, thanks for all the help everybody, you've got a really strong community here. I was hoping this thread would lead to a discussion that would help others having my problem, as well as myself, and I bet it will.

I'll work on modifying my vowels, though when I write lyrics I usually take into consideration how difficult a big note is going to be when I sing it, so I guess in a way I try to avoid that issue altogether.:lol:

Concerning the post above, I totally understand that we're talking about a difficult range of notes for just about any male singer. I've long since realized that I'm not Jeff Buckley or Freddy Mercury, and to some extent I have to work with what I've got, which I am totally fine with. I just want to get to the point where I can finish a gig without ever having the urge to yell out a big note because I'm worried I'm going to crack.:lol:

Thanks everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should explain my misunderstanding. For I know others, such as Bob, are advocates of carrying chest high. And, at first, I thought that was what the op was talking about, in which case, he and Bob would be on the same page, as it were. Then he pointed out he was actually talking about mix. Which does imply a bridging at some point. So, then, my statements were wrong. Oh well, it isn't it the first time, probably won't be the last.

Owen was asking me where I bridge. I have not really paid attention. I kind of like the one voice thingy. It's such a habit now to follow the resonance that I'm not really feeling a "thing" until around D5, if I had to pick a point.

So, I thought, maybe I am doing the same thing as Bob, I just don't think of it as pushing up in chest. I think of it as being voluminous and resonant through the entire range.

Yet, others have described me as a "head voice" guy. Whatever. I've been called worse, I think. In fact, someone once thought I was a plumber (them's fightin' words!).

That is, I think we're both "one voice" guys, just from different perspectives. So, I cannot honestly say that I bridge at E4. It may be more like G4 to A4 but I am not paying attention. I'm a simple guy with a complicated job at work. So, singing like an idiot savant is my relaxation.

:o

To the point of the title of the thread, I am very much about taking a technique or insight directly into singing, i.e., practical use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ron, i never specifically said i'm all for pushing up chest. and i don't think about bridging anything, early, late, when, if...none of that.

i'm a big proponent of one strong, powerful, connected voice...powerful means light, medium, heavy, whatever i feel like doing with it.

what i do say is if i ever became a voice teacher, i'd have the students build up some requisite muscle strength (a la frisell) first... particularly in the head voice.

i would focus on getting control over the larynx, removal of extraneous muscle involvement, learning to relax and open the throat, and improving both breath capacity, and support.

how can you have "coordination" and ease of production, if the muscles that are going to assist you with this are underdeveloped?

i'd much rather get some appropriate development first, then worry about finesse and coordination because i believe the strength is what allows finesse and coordination.

just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually Bob, those are good statements. And I, like you, am a proponent of one strong, powerful, connected voice.

And perhaps I have just been doing it so long and operate instinctively that I would not know how to explain it to a beginner. Which would probably make me a lousy teacher. But hopefully, a half-way decent singer.

Now, if I could just find a band that want's a half-way decent light tenor. Easier said than done.

One of my colleagues in my work world is a scheduling manager with one of the builders that we work with. On the weekends, he plays in a band and is an excellent blues guitarist. I sent him the link to "Sweet Jesus," my take on Paul Hart's music in the "contest" thread. And he liked it. So, maybe there is hope for me, yet. Which feels like some kind of validation, as I didn't do anything spectacular or straining for me. Recording it was as easy as falling off a log, even if I cannot edit the tracks worth a dime.

And I see where at least one other person disagrees with you, preferring instead, to learn coordination and then bring back in the power, which reminds me of Frisell's method. Yet you differ from that, expecting to build this muscular power and then reign it back in.

And I got that inference, also, from your statement on the Skype conference. So, our discussions on this may be academic, certainly moot, since you have already decided what is right. And that is not an insult. You have your way and if it works for you, that is a good thing.

So, sing more, teach less.

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...