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Where's all the Estill?!

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mpocock
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Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum - my name's Matt and I'm a singing teacher in the UK. From a quick scan of a few posts around on the site I'm seeing a nice array of methodologies that I admire, and would love to know more about - SLS, CVT, etc.

But where's the Estill stuff? I wonder whether since this site is mostly US-based (?) that Estill's not so big over there. I've found it super-helpful in breaking down what is happening in students' voices and making swift, precise interventions in things like tongue tension and phonation issues.

Has anyone been looking into it and found it useful, or have any major disagreements with it? Looking to start off a nice debate about methodologies :)

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I think the fact that Estill requires you to attend their courses to learn the method rather than being able to learn from books/DVDs etc means that less people have been exposed to it. I've heard some very good things from singers I know who are heavily invested in the method, but for me personally it's a school of vocalistion that I know very little about.

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Rob Lunte (the founder of this board) has actually studied under an Estill teacher for some time iirc. He also incorporates some of the vocal modes (Belt, Twang, ...) in the Estillian way within his own program at TVS.

There are a few Estill guys around here I think, but in the general discussion the CVT terms (Overdrive, Edge, ...), the classical terms (head, chest, ...) and the way TVS explains the fold functions (TA and CT activation) are more common.

The CVT terms are especially popular I think, because they offer a great way to describe a singing setup "from outside" based on the acoustics, which on an internet forum is often the only way of judging sounds.

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Ok - thanks everyone for the clarifications! I know a little of CVT and less about TVS - are there any books/online resources I should be looking at to get in touch with these methods a bit more?

It's true, Estill is a pretty closed network - but I went along to a workshop and it blew my mind. You can get most of it from other books, though. Singing and Teaching Singing by Janice Chapman, Singing and the Actor by Gillyanne Kayes is another great one.

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To me it seems like estill is a cash machine :-(.

Very few info on the net and all the teachers in the forums just say estill will solve your problem. Buy my program or my book.

I believe that is a statement based on ignorance. You can start here:

http://www.estillvoice.com/pages/philosophy

:)

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I'd like to chime in here. I am pretty involved in the Estill organization. I attended their world symposium in Boston this year and my teacher worked directly with Jo. When I first started looking for information about Estill I had the same thoughts because I couldn't get any materials directly from them. I took a course and it was definitely worth it. I am now more than halfway through my master teacher certification and can understand why they are careful about the information. There is alot of new terminology that can easily be misinterpreted/taught by someone that doesn't fully grasp the material, and this can be dangerous. The problem is when people start saying something is Estill, but they aren't teaching it properly, or out of context. That being said, There is a book being finished that was started by Jo Estill, and talk of some online courses. If you have any questions about Estill, I would be glad to answer them.

-Drew

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I watched all of the Tom Burke videos that I could find. I stumbled onto the first one and was very impressed by the way he taught. Even though it was basically the same info in each video I still gained more understanding with each one.

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WOW right around 47:00 on that video he totally explained what I'd been wondering forever about why I felt I had two falsetto configurations...turns out one was stiff folds, one was thin folds.

Estill seems to be one of the few methods that makes that differentiation.

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Well... I'm a teacher at heart. I'm currently attending school for music ed. I have a few students, but not really a studio yet. As I said though, I'm pretty close to CMT certification. I'm excited to be involved with the Estill organization because they recognize that it is still just a model (a really good one) that always has room for improvement and ongoing research. I'm hoping to get in on that action. I really just love the voice and want to explore all that it is capable of. : )

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I'm excited to be involved with the Estill organization because they recognize that it is still just a model (a really good one) that always has room for improvement and ongoing research. I'm hoping to get in on that action.

Yes, it's just a model. And in my opinion they need to update several things because some of it is not concurrent with current knowledge in voice science. :)

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Thanks Dante!!! I've been a lurker on this forum for several years and have learned a lot from you guys interacting.

Martin H- I agree with you. However, there is also the line of thought as to what is a useful pedagogical organization of what we do know. Estill is very effective to a teacher that is informed by it. I do think there are a few figures that could be maybe broken down a little further. There was talk at this symposium specifically about the cricoid cartilage and false vocal folds and the muscles that may be involved. The cricoid (or what Estill is calling "cricoid tilt") is interesting because there are a definite range of sounds that can be accessed through thinking about Estill's explanation of Cricoid Tilt. Whether or not this is actually happening is up for debate and needs more research (there might be something to it, you can definitely physically feel the CT space expand when belting or accessing other "Call" type sounds) , however the important thing is that it works to let people experience new sensations/ sounds with their voice. It's interesting.

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drew77,

I know, I've attended both levels (1&2) and additional 2 advanced courses. The two tiltings (Cricoid and Thyroid) are in my opinion not correct. And so aren't the retraction of the false folds, and the thin folds. And they don't have any tools for the vocal effects like distortion.

I know the pedagogical value, however, some is not based on research as they propose. :)

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drew77,

I know, I've attended both levels (1&2) and additional 2 advanced courses. The two tiltings (Cricoid and Thyroid) are in my opinion not correct. And so aren't the retraction of the false folds, and the thin folds. And they don't have any tools for the vocal effects like distortion.

I know the pedagogical value, however, some is not based on research as they propose. :)

What is your opinion on the Cricoid and Thyroid tilt?

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What is your opinion on the Cricoid and Thyroid tilt?

That the tilting of the Cricoid doesn't happen. And the tilting of the Thyroid (elongating the folds) has no significant effect on intensity. The elongation is directly linked to pitch. :)

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WOW right around 47:00 on that video he totally explained what I'd been wondering forever about why I felt I had two falsetto configurations...turns out one was stiff folds, one was thin folds.

Estill seems to be one of the few methods that makes that differentiation.

Owen, falsetto vs modal voice. M2 vs M1.

Its the association you guys do of air and power to the registers/names that mix things up.

You can not teach head voice without working in this difference... It becomes a mess.

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Owen, falsetto vs modal voice. M2 vs M1.

Its the association you guys do of air and power to the registers/names that mix things up.

You can not teach head voice without working in this difference... It becomes a mess.

The stiff fold configuration is what I have always associated with falsetto and thin fold as head voice. That is why I am add odds with people at times between the Headvoice/Falsetto debates.

Thanks for your replay Martin. When reading about the "Estill Belt" they do mention a cricoid tilt, but they also say that it may not in fact be happening. Still they mention the gap between the cricoid and Thyroid cartilages as being wider in the Estill Belt.

How would you lead someone to find the coordination for the "Belt"?

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Like an Italian: "Eh Mamma"!! Remember to take a quick upper breath (Clavicular breath) and smile - A shout for joy. :)

That should be easy enough. There are a few Italian Mamas that make me shout for joy around here. :)

The last time I tried that my cheeks hurt for some reason. :lol: :rolleyes:

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i watched some of this teacher's videos, and although it's quite obvious he knows a lot, he states that he is not a rock singer.

he has a video where he explains axel rose's sound as a quack....anyone who sings "sweet child of mine" knows all too well it's much more than just a quack.....

i was impressed by him in one way, and turned off by him in another....

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It took me a while to realise what TWANG was. As Bob mentioned I Quacked and Meowed and Imitated Diving airplains until I could distinquich the action and sound that they had in common.

I could always imitate Axel but I never thought that it was the way to sing real rock songs. He sounds way to cartooney for me. The same goes for Brian Johnson.

I could not figure out how to translate those sounds into Foreigner, Aerosmith or Boston type songs. Is there even a relation?

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