VideoHere Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 "the common thing is that we all tend to have the voice more pressed/heavy and more 'bottom to top' at the beginning of the day." this (above) is not correct....you will pull chest when the vibrating mass (the folds) are not allowed to thin. you cannot pull chest if you reduce the vibrating mass and that is accomplished by the vowel (throat shape). the vowel is critical to that process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Bob and Geran, It's not really about the mass of the vocal folds. It's about the adduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 but martin, doesn't the vibrating mass need to thin to enable higher pitches...from "voice of the mind." please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Bob, The tension needs to change. 99% of the time "pulling chest" referrers to the fact that people adduct the vocal folds too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoHere Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 yes, but doesn't the vowel impact the tension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Tension in the folds are related to pitch! The main thing that people often forget is, that there are 3 muscles adducting the folds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny82 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 interesting benny! what's your source to read further about this topic? I don't really have any, it's my personal experience. Don't change too much during a single excercise. In CVT the different modes are different setups of the vocal tract. They have a nice "research" section now on their page where you can learn about that. In my experience it works better if you stay on one sound (mode, vowel) and increase/descrease loudness or you stay on one loudness (as far as possible) and change the mode/vowel. The "...like-neutral" modes are a good start for this because the difference between Overdrive-like neutral and Overdrive is really just loudness (and the physiological actions that come with it), the vocal tract setup and vowel is very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 i would be happy if you could explain it all in just 1 text xD Lateral cricoarytenoids, interarytenoids (transvers and oblique). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thyroarytenoid also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Felipe, Actually it's not considered a primary adductor but a secondary. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Adductor even so. And, when intensity is high, primary. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Felipe, Definitely. But you can adduct the vocal folds without the TA, that's why they are considered secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Felipe, Yes, also in singing. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Felipe, Why is that incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Adductor even so. And, when intensity is high, primary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Felipe, Does intensity always have to be high in singing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 could you describe the connection between this tension and the excessive adduction (that produces the activation of constrictors/pulling chest) ? Geran, I can see that I wasn't clear in my earlier statement. The tension (pitch regulation) is related to pitch (TA and CT) the excessive adduction is related to the adductor muscles LCA and IA. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Carvalho Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Martin, Thats not the point, but since you brought it up... actually, technically, yes. I would even extend it in an aware guess to breathy and low volume soft voice singing use by untrainned individuals on pop, but I never saw data on that. Quite sure there will be TA activity. And thats the real problem of thinking about registration as a muscular ballance result. TA changes pitch, timbre and is part of the adduction coordination. Depending on the registration its effect on pitch varies, ranging from positive to negative influence. Depending on the vocal tract conformity all the tensions and even the intensity of emission will vary. So it does not work. Its not mass, and its not adduction either. You simply are using a quality that is easy to perceive, it does not mean that this quality is the more relevant on the overall perceived quality. Simple example, chest and head voice. Everyone seems to believe that on the passage closed quotient is reduced. When what really happens it is the exact opposite. Adduction increases, but it still is a passage to a lighter registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Felipe, Again the TA is a secondary adductor. The LCA and IA are the primary adductors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Geran, The adductors, LCA and IA. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I just read something on this in a blog. Yeah, I know, I am just learning......... The benifits of training Falsetto...Real falsetto where there is NO TA involvement and NO airiness is to help train correct adduction. :/ ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin H Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 MDEW, Well, you can adduct fine in falsetto (M2). Especially in the higher range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDEW Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I believe that I was agreeing with you Martin. TA being secondary adductor. with "Falsetto" there is no TA involvement but adduction happens anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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