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How to make your own "lesson" with CVT?

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leezuh
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So I'm used to Mastering Mix and having a full vocal lesson on every disk. I'm worrying now that when I'm creating my own lessons with CVT that I'm going to miss something. Also, I'm a total beginner and I'm not good with playing scales on the piano. I find it distracting. I just like being able to sing along to the tracks of the scales. Does TVS offer pre-recorded scales and lessons? I might have to switch programs if they do.

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Yeah that's the issue with CVT their method doesn't have a format for that and their many of their students' training suffers because of it.

You can try applying the CVT modes and principles and sound colors etc to your mastering mix workouts or 4 pillars if you get that. CVT and TVS go well together, according to some students on this forum and even if you asked Rob hed tell you TVS shares many similarities with CVT but TVS actually has training content while CVT really doesn't. Idk about doing the MM stuff in a more CVT-like way but try it first since it uses what you already have and if it works for you then you can save money. Otherwise definitely get 4 pillars its just about the most complete vocal workout system available. Has most of the traditional scales as well as sirens and robs own song-like vocalizes in rock and blues styles.

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My opinion is that the Modes in CVI should be viewed as seperate techniques. Work on the modes seperately. I believe in the book it even tells you to get centered on one mode before starting with another one.

The way we get in trouble is by using the "Setup" for one mode and "Volume" or "Vowels" of another mode. Mixing elements of the "Techniques".

In a song you would use different techniques within the arrangement to acheive the over all "Style" of the song.

You would "CHOOSE" to use "curbing", "Neutral" or "Overdrive" in different areas of a song to achieve the effect you desire.

So when training, Train "Neutral" alone so you can use in when you need it. Train "Curbing" alone so you can use it when you need it........

I am not a teacher so I could be wrong.

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Just dont and use orientation as suggested. People like to pretend they learn alone but with no useful result.

Or, just sing, and improve on your own pace.

GL.

Orientation is much better if you can find someone qualified or can afford it.

Don't we come here to the forum seeking some kind of guidance or to help guide others if they are training on their own?

Our failure as self teachers stems from trying to mix the elements in one technique with the elements of another. Trying to "Belt" with a setup more structured for "Covering" or vice versa.

We get little pieces of a puzzle and try to randomly put them together.

A coach or teacher will guide you down one path at a time and let you know which elements go to which technique.

Again I may be wrong (That self teaching thing). But it seems that a program like CVI lets you know which piece or element goes with which technique. Not necessarily a TRAINING MANUAL for muscular developement.

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leezuh,

You don't need scales to learn CVT.

This is true, but if you want to practice and train CVT and TVS... you do. Leezuh, do you want to just read a book and then be lost on what to do next? Have no direction, no routines mapped out for you, no guidance on how to practice? Does that sound like the best way for you to become a better singer? What if you could have all that information and then.. ALSO, an incredible collection of media and content to use for training? That would be the best of both worlds... don't get short changed by purchasing a product that has no content for you to practice with.

CVI is a good method, but CVI is also very weak on training content in regards to their product and there is not one person on this forum that can deny that fact who is familiar with the product.

One of the greatest strengths of "The Four Pillars of Singing" training system from TVS is you will get 6.5GB of training content! Content you use to practice with.

1). Training Work Flows (not seen in any other product)

2). Training Routines (not seen in any other product that I know of?).

3).34 Guide Files that you sing over the top of to learn quickly how to do the workout. (not seen in any other product).

4). 40 Audio and Video demonstrations of me demonstrating all the workouts to show you how to do it. (definitely not seen in any CVI product).

5). A custom user interface that organizes 6.5GB of training content which makes your training easier and more organized. (not really available in any product. Usually you just get source files dumped into folders). Is that what you want? A bunch of mp3s dumped into folders... or would you like an application to train out of? (not seen in any other contemporary products that I am aware of?)

6). Complete notation of every workout for people that want to accompany the workouts on piano. (not seen in any other product).

7). The TVS product offers a 400 page book.

Oh BTW... all the ideas regarding CVT vocal modes are also taught in "The Four Pillars of Singing". I talk about "curbing" and "overdrive" modes and fully explain the CVT ideas, but put them into application with TVS training and other techniques. You get the core ideas about CVT, in "The Four Pillars of Singing"... you don't have to buy both books to understand CVT... its explained and what I think is useful... is in my book. You also get Estill ideas in my book, as well as KTVA ideas... and you get original TVS techniques and ideas on top of all that research.

With my product, you will not only receive the Book, audio and video content.. but i will give you the Mobile Edition of my product so you can use it on your smart phone... That is not available from CVT because ... CVT has no media content to put on a smart phone!

Lastly, if you email me personally, Ill give you a discount code so you can get ALL THAT.. for a good deal and save a little bit of money...

Watch this video:

This video is about a year old... the current product has all this extra updates in it:

TFPOS 3.0 Recent Updates:

All New Video Demonstrations:

â—¦ Robert Lunte demonstrations of the 40 TVS vocal workouts are new, complete with multi-camera editing, video and audio enhancing inside the new studio at TVS International in Seattle, WA.

New additional 3.0 Video Lectures:

â—¦ Welcome and Introduction.

â—¦ The TVS Warm Up & Foundation Building Routine.

â—¦ The Quick Start Guide.

â—¦ Onsets & Sirens.

â—¦ The Two Embouchures.

â—¦ Appoggio (TVS Respiration Techniques).

â—¦ The Vibratory Mechanism & The Reparatory System Balance.

â—¦ The 8 TVS Specialized Onsets.

â—¦ The Two Tongue Positions.

â—¦ Consonant Modification.

â—¦ TVS Microphone Grips.

All Video Has Been Enhanced:

â—¦ Video lectures have been enhanced and newly rendered to improve the visual resolution and audio.

Training Media Interface (TMI) update:

â—¦ The Popular Training Media Interface. A new user interface that organizes all the "Pillars" content in a logical and intuitive way. Improves the user experience and helps navigate all the content in the product easier and makes training more efficient. Click HERE to launch a video to learn more about the new TMI.

Tuning vocal formants and the use of spectrum software:

â—¦ Without an understanding and knowledge of how to the acoustics of singing work, a student can never achieve true balance of resonant energy, sound color and proper vowel modification. Now for the 1st time in the industry and detailed, but practical instruction on how to use spectrum software to help tune the singer's formant, complete with screen capture illustrations.

Workouts for Women (Starting in G) has been added to the TMI:

â—¦ The 3.0 edition includes the popular solo piano vocal workouts for women. Previously sold as a separate offering, they are now included in the complete system. This is 38 additional mp3 files to train with that start on G3, instead of C3. Making it more convenient for higher voices to train for women.

Vocal workouts now available slow and fast!

â—¦ NEW versions of the vocal workouts totaling 62 vocal workouts! Many workouts have new slower versions to make some of the previously faster workouts easier to train. Also certain workouts are in different keys. The amount of training workouts has doubled from 33 files to 62 solo workouts to train with! Now students have fast AND slow versions of the workouts!

Enhanced Guide Files:

â—¦ The popular guide files used to help accelerate a students ability to learn the 38 vocal workouts, have been enhanced and included in the new Training Media Interface.

The Four Pillars of Singing 3.0 Book Updates:

â—¦ A professional design/layout that makes the book more cohesive, and more beautiful.

â—¦ NEW Appoggio Respiration Techniques.

â—¦ More Specialized Onsets totaling 8 in all!

â—¦ Learning to balancing glottal compression with sub-glottal respiration pressure to end all fatigue and stop sounding like a duck once and for all!

â—¦ Throat Shaping Vowels & Open Throat Singing Techniques.

â—¦ A comprehensive explanation and addition of new "Acoustic Modes", or sound color groupings used in singing. THIS IS THE NEW INFORMATION THAT HIGHLIGHTS CVT's IDEAS.

â—¦ NEW Vowel modification formulas for every vocal workout offering more detail and guidance on how to train the "Pillars" workouts.

◦ An expanded "Training Routine" giving students clear, "step by step" instructions and TVS’s exclusive training work flows for to help you to practice and train your singing voice to get stronger.

Lastly, I encourage you to download the PDF of the Table of Contents to my book in the signature below... its a great way to see what your getting... tonight, Ill be adding new vowel modification samples on lyrics... to show you how to apply vowel modification techniques to singing.

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^^^What Rob said.

The CVT book and sound library, at least in my experience, is nothing but a collection of information that you eventually memorize and then after that the product sits there collecting dust. Some of it is helpful to know but it's not a training method. There's no overarching strategy to improvement and it doesn't provide much overall direction.

With 4 pillars, not only is there textual information but actually workouts you can pull up and sing along with. And detailed instructions on how and why to train them, as well as a specific sequence, purpose, and strategy behind everything.

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Thanks Owen... its a relief to hear someone else other then myself point this out. Its such a struggle sometimes to get the message through to students and people that are shopping for programs about the high level of VALUE you get from "The Four Pillars of Singing". There are several great programs out there, CVT is one of them. I have the book, I like it. But honestly, there is no product like the TVS product that can equal the value in what you get for your purchase, the least of which is the extensive content and focus on TRAINING and PRACTICING.

In the last few years, I have come to know myself! I have grown to understand and appreciate what I think I do better then any other product on the market and that is, training content and high value. I may not be the best vocal mode guy, I may not be the guy that sings the best in my "how to sing..." videos, I may not have the prettiest book design... but what thing is certain, nobody touches TVS and "The Four Pillars of Singing" in regards to training content, training routine, training work flows... teaching people how to practice and facilitating that need. In addition to all the other points that are good.. the biggest differentiator is the emphasis on practicing. Its always been that way for me.

Every since I was 15, I have had scales and content to practice. A book or a method with nothing to practice at the end of the reading and workbooks... is just confusing to me. I don't get it...? Why don't some of these reputable, good programs offer training content?

Someone once told me that the reason these other companies don't offer training content is because they want you to go pay for lessons with their teachers, and avoid a 'home study" course. I don't know if that is true, but it would explain this strange phenomenon. Anyways, I advocate that you get a copy of "The Four Pillars of Singing" and the CVT book... the two combined is a powerful set of information... but if you could only have one, get "The Four Pillars of Singing' because of the added value, training content and it covers the main points and ideas of CVT anyways...

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Rob, you know what's even weirder than the lack of vocal workouts...Did you catch that section of the CVT book where Sadolin claims warming up is optional and isn't necessary for any purpose except "brushing up technique"

:rolleyes:

Wow?! No, I didn't... I just went to the main point... the technical components of the vocal modes... thats where the meat is, kinda glossed over the other stuff because it wasn't really super interesting to me or is already covered in my book. I must say, that is a very peculiar thing to say. There is no doubt, that warming up is a certainty for everyone. You have to warm up if you are going to get your voice out of the clunky pits of speech mode and into something high performance. Wow, thats strange Owen.. thanks for pointing that out?

Thats the kind of kooky things you see when you have voice coaches, even if they are great ... that don't sing. If Sadolin would sing regularly, she may change her mind on that point... weird.

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CVT seems to be more about defining the "Modes" (I would refer to them more as techniques). For average people who are having trouble, crossing one element of a mode with another is what causes problems.

An example would be using Curbing Vowels with the VOLUME of Overdrive . ect....

Also it is a guide to which mode/technique to use for the sound that you are looking for.

If you want to sing a soft lullaby maybe Overdrive above E4 might not be a good Idea.

So in my opinion CVT would be more a guide on HOW and WHEN to use these modes instead of Making the Muscles of the voice stronger or increasing range or power.

The dynamics within a song would be switching between modes to create the effect of more or less intensity.

Roberts program is about building technique AND strengthening muscular coordinations AND increasing range AND putting it together in songs.

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In regards to warm ups. Actually, that is an area which is highly debatable and very individual. Research have not proven any conclusive effects. Mostly it's psychological. A lot of singers who have a solid technique don't warm up before going on stage. I don't either. And the most important thing is, that you shouldn't if you feel you don't need to, and you don't have to feel bad about it either!

As an analogy, do you warm up your fingers before you play a song on the piano or the guitar?

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CVT seems to be more about defining the "Modes" (I would refer to them more as techniques). For average people who are having trouble, crossing one element of a mode with another is what causes problems.

An example would be using Curbing Vowels with the VOLUME of Overdrive . ect....

Also it is a guide to which mode/technique to use for the sound that you are looking for.

If you want to sing a soft lullaby maybe Overdrive above E4 might not be a good Idea.

So in my opinion CVT would be more a guide on HOW and WHEN to use these modes instead of Making the Muscles of the voice stronger or increasing range or power.

The dynamics within a song would be switching between modes to create the effect of more or less intensity.

Roberts program is about building technique AND strengthening muscular coordinations AND increasing range AND putting it together in songs.

I think this is a good assessment. Yes, the information on the CVI Mode "Packages", which includes volume, is helpful if your going to think about your phonation package in the context of CVI modes... which again, is fine. But this information is also in my book. We add additional components to the phonation package and / or account for different variable that CVI does not. The TVS Acoustic Modes are the sum total of the TVS Physical Modes other key techniques such as onsets, embouchure, vowels, levels of compression, larynx manipulation, and other variables.

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In regards to warm ups. Actually, that is an area which is highly debatable and very individual. Research have not proven any conclusive effects. Mostly it's psychological. A lot of singers who have a solid technique don't warm up before going on stage. I don't either. And the most important thing is, that you shouldn't if you feel you don't need to, and you don't have to feel bad about it either!

As an analogy, do you warm up your fingers before you play a song on the piano or the guitar?

Actually... I think some people do, yes. Id like to point out that your voice and all its intricasies and dependence on acoustics and tiny adjustments ... are not your fingers. Agreed, it is individual... for me, I need to warm up to sound my best for about 20 minutes.

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this is interesting :P but i think a lot of people warm up their voice to leave the morning voice a little bit faster! (i have noticed for example that if im in silence during the day, my morning voice ends far later than when i talk a lot or even faster when i warm up 15 minutes here and there!)

Yes. You have to get out of speech mode. It is a very rare individual that can wake up and go perform without warming up and have a perfect configuration for singing ready to go. Im almost inclined to argue Martin on this point, but we won't go there... lol. I'm willing bet Martin, that if you DID do a warm-up, your voice would respond even better... If you are the kind of person that has a gifted mechanism for singing... god bless you, but does that mean you still don't benefit from warming up?

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Robert,

Of course I agree that if you are going to sing just after you woke up you need to get the body going. But that's just general and I would define that as...waking up. What I'm referring to is that before I go on stage in the evening I don't warm up in the traditional sense. I don't need to because I have the coordinations down.

I guess what's important is that people do what they believe works for their voice. Some like to drink tea with lemon or swallow an egg etc. But don't feel bad if you don't warm up. The notion that you'll hurt your voice if you don't warm up is not correct.

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In regards to warm ups. Actually, that is an area which is highly debatable and very individual. Research have not proven any conclusive effects. Mostly it's psychological. A lot of singers who have a solid technique don't warm up before going on stage. I don't either. And the most important thing is, that you shouldn't if you feel you don't need to, and you don't have to feel bad about it either!

As an analogy, do you warm up your fingers before you play a song on the piano or the guitar?

I can actually agree with this a bit in the sense that I've been taught that the more solid your technique is the less you need to warm up in order to sing well.

I also wouldn't deny it's psychological. Just because it's more psychological doesn't make it any less important to preparing to deliver a great performance.

By psychological, would you agree that part of a warm up might involve searching for muscle memory that isn't yet immediately reliable? That's the way I think of it. It's hard to get your voice into a great state if it hasn't been there a thousand times before. So warming up, for me and I think a lot of other singers, involves getting into a psychological and physical groove, where you gradually become more comfortable with things that you would not be comfortable jumping into immediately.

I don't warm up my fingers for guitar and piano but that's because I never play anything seriously difficult on them. However, if I were about to play something extremely advanced, you'd bet I'd warm up. Why? Because accessing difficult muscle memory immediately is often a shock to the system. Going from 0 effort and concentration to full effort and concentration abruptly is not as reliable as creating a gradually ramp up of difficulty through a slow and patient warm up.

That's just how I see it. If you really have your stuff together, warming up becomes this little 5 minute joke where you just do something easy to get the blood flowing and then you're ready to kill it. But the less you have your stuff together and more you are challenged to push your current ability, the more it needs to be eased into.

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i know i should, but i never warm up before singing for a little while. how long do you think it's necessary to warm up?

It depends on where you are at in your training, what you plan on singing, etc.

If you've never warmed up before, start with, eh, 30 minutes and go straight into singing. As your technique/stamina gets better to where you can get away with using your voice longer without going hoarse, try gradually increasing your warm up eventually up to a couple hours with a break in between and really take your time gradually ramping up the difficulty. What your voice does at the end of those long sessions will help you become familiar with the absolute best technique your voice can achieve. Once you've done enough of those long sessions and that best technique becomes more habitual, the long warm becomes less necessary and you can gradually decrease your warm up time.

But it's also good to practice singing with little to no warm up every once in a while because inevitably you will have performances where the opportunity to warm up isn't available so you have to stay familiar with how much your voice can do when you just jump right into singing. So that if you ever have to perform with no warm up, you won't mistakenly attempt (and fail) to do things you can only do when you're warmed up. So in that case you want to come up with or have prepared a backup plan, a way to alter your performance to avoid those less reliable parts of your voice.

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But the less you have your stuff together and more you are challenged to push your current ability, the more it needs to be eased into.

Yes, then you need to practice. But if you are at that stage and you have to perform you simply haven't prepared enough and it's too late to "ease" into it. But as you sated yourself, if you have your stuff together you are good to go and maybe you just need 5 minutes to "brush up the technique" as CVT would describe it. :)

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Yes and that's why I mentioned in my other comment about still knowing what your voice can do with no warm up so you can adjust by not even going to that hard stuff you would normally ease into, but just sticking at your current level of comfort/ability and not attempting anything too technically daring if you don't have to.

It takes a heck of a long time to "prepare" for a difficult vocal to the point where once can sing it perfectly without a warm up though. Singers are able to get faster "results"...e.g. sing harder material earlier in the learning curve, if they go to great lengths to make sure they can warm up before a performance.

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Sure... I would state that this conversation between Owen and especially Martin and myself is between people that have years and years of experience and training and coordination. In my daily front line work with beginners, not people like Martin... these people need to warm up. It is also true that even with beginners, some people can get into a singing configuration that is responsive easier then others... singing is a very individual thing on all points.

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warmups might also include massage, relaxation technique, muscle, face, clenching and releasing, stress reduction moves and more.

it's not just about the vocal folds. lou gramm said in his foreigner days, he had a masseuse give him a massage before going on.

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warmups might also include massage, relaxation technique, muscle, face, clenching and releasing, stress reduction moves and more.

it's not just about the vocal folds. lou gramm said in his foreigner days, he had a masseuse give him a massage before going on.

Indeed. Commonly neglected stuff. Not necessary for every individual, but the possibility too often doesn't even come to mind.

Another neglected part that Lou mentioned in that interview you linked is warming up with some song phrases.

The whole idea of turning songs into exercises is so effective but also so commonly neglected among students. Vocal teachers seem to always remember it and have their students do it. But in the context of a forum discussion between students, we often unintentionally put up this barrier between singing and vocalizing and think of them as separate categories of training. But combining them is really what helps students learn how to get through those tough songs and challange their repertoire

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