I warned you I would do this..Foreigner. Let me know what you think

[MDEW]

:P Warning I do not sound like Lou Gramm. But listen anyway and give your opinion and any tips.

I think I fixed the link. Thanks go to Jim Brewster for figuring out the problem.

[jonpall]

Hmmm, I think they changed the web site so that now you have to sign up there in order to listen to clips like these.

[Jim Brewster]

Try this link. Seems the '#' broke it:

Sounds good. Not Lou, but you! As it should be!

[Felipe Carvalho]

Not sounding good man, sorry, I wont even try to get to details, just pick simpler songs and perfect them first.

[MDEW]

Not sounding good man, sorry, I wont even try to get to details, just pick simpler songs and perfect them first.

Thank you for listening.

I threw it together in a day from never trying to play or sing it. Pretty much because when I submit something that I am familier with and simple no one but Ron and a few stragglers respond to it. They are usually Country oriented or folk pop at best nothing that can be compared to the techniques needed to perform Opera or Music theater or Dio.

I do agree that it is not too good from a Foreigner copy standpoint( I would never try to copy that with ony 1 guitar and a bass anyway.). But I have seen youtube videos of this song that were worse than my take and they are getting good responces. Any performer who would cover this song would sing it their way.

There is no point in me trying to sound like Lou or Kelly or anyone else for that matter.

Maybe I will repost this with the Bass and Harmonies stripped away and you will at least have a starting point for critique. It will still have to have My interpretation of the song using only the proper chords for accompaniment.

Cannot be judged by Foreigners original, but by the performance itself.

Or Maybe I will download a decent backing track and sing to that, Trying to match Lou's melody and power. I will fail but you will have a chance to tell me why.

I do want to improve and this may be wrong on so many levels.... But pick one and give a few details. Or maybe point out anything that I may have been doing right that I can build on.

I have a challenge for you(or anyone else on the forum). Take a song that you have never played before or tried to sing for real. Take one hour to learn the song. Take 3 hours to record one or two instrument tracks and a lead vocal track and 3 harmonies, without listening to the song while you record it. Do NOt Use a Click Track or Drum track. Stop at the four hour mark regardless of how it sounds and post it. That is what I did. It can be a song that you have heard all your life but never tried to sing.

By the way I am not upset or anything by a bad review. I appreciate your honesty. That is what I want. If it is bad I want to know it. I also would like points to work on.

[ronws]

I like the effort and there is nothing wrong with a goal. I can hear that you raised the key of the song. And, to me, king of "good job," it sounds like your vowels are getting cleaner. I was listening because your ah would normally sound more short a, as in cat or hat. Here, it was a more vertical, very close to the actual ah sound. Just today, I was experimenting. Purposefully sang cat and paid attention to the back of the tongue. And lowered and raised it. That is what creates the vowel. So, it's very subtle. When you start to feel or hear the cat a, slightly drop the back of the tongue. So, then, I went through the vowel sounds and watched what I did with tongue height and mouth.

Anyway, I think you are getting somewhere. I've thought of doing a few Foreigner covers but I fear the compulsion to compare is so strong. I sound nothing like Lou Gramm but I admire him and his sound. But if I did, it would have to be one of my favorites, such as "Dirty White Boy."

Because I am ... \m/

[MDEW]

Thanks Ronws. I did the very thing that you just suggested. I tried to keep the back of my tongue down. I was having trouble with the harmonies (like no one could tell that ) anyway I tried to tune the notes by raising and lowering the back of my tongue. Changing the key changes the total feel of the song. You cannot go by singing what muscle memory tells you. Muscle memory will have you singing in the original key, so you have to come up with something different that sems to work.

[Adoney]

MDEW I actually didn't think it was as bad as Felipe implied. But there is a lot of room for improvement, and I personally like to over-simplify things when it comes to this type of stuff. I would say that everyone has something inside of them to let out a sound that is, at the very least, sincere.. whether trained or not is something to be addressed later. But that sincerity is an essential starting point in my opinion, or you end up worrying about technique and holding back what matters most.

Consider an untrained vocalist belting out a melody with sincere emotion. There is not a way to deny it even with a few mistakes.. But consider a mildly experienced vocalist singing with emotional restraint worrying only of his technique.. It wouldn't impress anyone sitting around the campfire. In fact, many a great vocalist have learned by throwing themselves out there, with no knowledge to go off of what-so-ever.

So my advice to you would be to put emotion and expression first. Worry only about what sounds good, and what feels right. And when all else fails, if you are making terrible noises, you will still have a fundamental idea being expressed. :)

[MDEW]

Thanks Adoney.

Room for improvement is why I posted a song that is way out of my element. I normally stick to Folk/Southern Rock. In the post that I warned of singing a foreigner song I implied that it would come out sounding more like Willy Nelson meets Creedence Clearwater Revival or maybe Bob Dylan meets the Eagles. I know I have a long way to go on songs like these.

The problem is that If I post a song like Bob Dylan or Eagles it will not get comments. I will not know whether I am making improvement or not.

It may have sounded as if I was upset by Felipes' responce but I am not. I know I have to work to make it better.

For this type of song I do not know where to start.

Think of it this way.... If you were to sing an Elton John song in a forum of Elton John fans using the approach and style that you sing now, you would bomb out. The style is totally different, It does not fit. You would have to dismantle your approach to tone and support and relearn how to use them to fit that style.

That is where I am and where I have been for quite some time. So when I sing a song like this, I may think HOW would Elton compose this if he were to sing it. Or what would John and Paul do? It is not going to go over well with Foreigner fans but it is going to fit my voice easier than me trying to get the tone and style of Lou Gramm. Unless perhaps someone can guide me in that style.

You keep hearing things like Singing is just Singing. But one technique does not fit all even if it is a solid start.

[Adoney]

Someone doesn't need to guide you.. imitations are the result of experimentation and a good ear

[MDEW]

Someone doesn't need to guide you.. imitations are the result of experimentation and a good ear

I do agree that experimentation is a big part of it. I try to imitate just about every sound I hear. One of the sounds that I have not yet been able to accomplish is the sound of a good solid chesty sound above G4.

You once had a thread about how to sing in falsetto. That was something you never learned how to do. I never learned how to Belt out a song above G4. I learned how to sing High notes through Bee Gee's, Elton John and some Beachboys. Falsetto all the way. The belting sound has always eluded me.

[jonpall]

I agree with Adoney. MDEW, I'm going to suggest that you experiment a bit with using vibrato. I think you might start to get more good comments if you do that, especially if you can practise it enough so that it becomes relaxed and natural. You could also experiment with some falsetto or even head voice, like improvising with that every now and then. Cheers!

[MDEW]

Thanks Jonpall, Maybe I will rerecord this, Drop a half step like Kelly does, and submit again. I made the choice of changing the song to fit my range rather than sticking to the original,( which the original band does not even do anymore).

Still, it will only be with one guitar and no harmonies. No matter how good someone would sing it, it would still sound empty.

It may take a few days to get the opportunity to record again.( that is why I had only four hours start to finish regardless of the outcome)

[Jens]

You sound like phil collins, please record this!

[MDEW]

Cool song Jens. I may learn it if I get an hour or two. ;)

[Singingnewbie]

Not bad at all, its just different. There are some spots to improve though. Vibrato, holding notes a bit longer, using breathy voice on some parts to add color to the song and also i think you left out/rushed some lyrics. It wasnt my style, i am more a "stick to the original unless you mastered it" guy, but i think it was a good cover :)

[MDEW]

Thanks Singingnewbie,

I started out with drum tracks in the original key, but my recorder did not have a good drum track for this. The beat was all wrong and was rushing everything. That wasted an hour or so. After fooling around trying to straiten that out, I decided to just go ahead and wing it with the guitar. The original beat and melody was no longer in my head. The new beat from the bad drum track was. I did not have enough time left to listen to the song again. I wanted to have something to post and get feedback on.

I get maybe once a month to try to record something and when I do I have limited amount of time to record.

I have a small digital recorder and it has to be put away when I am finished. Very cool effects are included with it. It is a good little machine. but it still takes around an hour just to get ready to record.

[Jugulator]

Nice try, man! Please sing something by Genesis :)

[MDEW]

2 requests for Phil Collins.... I'll have to look into that. I like "Against all Odds". It seems that I am fighting against all odds this year anyway. :cool:

[ronws]

M, you have the right voice, range, and phrasing to do "Against All Odds" by Phil.

[basslord1124]

I did listen to it and honestly, it's not too bad. Not spectacular but not crappy either. I think that's probably not the easiest song to cover anyways. You got the basics down, I'd try some new things and make it your own.

[MDEW]

I will continue to work on this. I did spend more time trying to get the harmonies close to pitch than I did on the lead vocals or even the timing of the song. I am not trying to defend my effort when I speak of the lack of time I put into this before submitting it. I know that I do not have the proper sound in my voice for this type of song.

The basic sound of my voice is what it would have been even I had spent a month or more on the song. That is the point of covering something that is out of my element. Feedback like lack of vibrato or rasp to add to the dynamics. Maybe something like vowels are too open to give the effect one is looking for or too much country twang to really sell the song.

I come from a background of songs more along the lines of The Eagles, John Prine or Jim Croce. The whole approach to those types of songs is different from what you would use for Foreigner. Not too much rasp, vibrato or high note power to be found in those songs.

I am not even sure how to find the sound needed for Foreigner.

To be honest I did not expect any praise for this effort other than nice try maybe try a little " ? " to get you closer to a nicer sound.

And I thank all of you for filling in that question mark with your suggestions.

[ronws]

I likes me some Jim Croce.

"You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't spit into the wind. You don't pull the mask off that ole Lone Ranger, and you don't mess around with Jim."

"He's bad, bad Leroy Brown. Baddest man in the whole damn town. Badder than ole King Kong, meaner than a junkyard dog."

"Operator, could you help me place this call? I can't seem to find the number you just gave me. Thank you for your time, you've so much more than kind. You can keep the dime ...."

God, what a memory, back when phone calls were a dime ....