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My First Lesson with Robert Lunte I hit an A4!!!

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Lobster510
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Hi there, I know that alot of you out there are experienced singers and vocal coaches. I hope you enjoy this review however this post is aimed more at people who are trawling through the forums trying to find tips and who may well be frustrated. Mabye you're self-taught, mabye you have a coach or a vocal program and you're not getting the progress that you've been hoping for.

In any case this post is mostly for you guys!

First off know that I'm not a big fan of telling mushy stories, probably due to my British stiff upper lip up upbringing. That said I might get a little personal so that I can really get my point across.

A few years ago I had a grunge/punk rock band. In 2 years we played something like 120 gigs, being a big Dave Grohl fan I would basically belt with my chest voice up to something like a G#4.

I was only able to get though those gigs thanks to being young and having good breath management.

Later in life I found myself homeless and going through some pretty rough times, singing being the physical activity that it is my voice took a real hit! After a few years of working myself out of that rough patch in low paid jobs I finally got a flat again, sorted out my basic living needs and quit my job to get back to playing music.

I got hold of a popular singing program and spent the winter vocalising and trying to get my voice back into shape and (hopefully) better than before i.e well trained/ being able to bridge etc...

The more and more I worked the more and more frustrating it became! I found myself getting to the point where I couldn't even get out the guitar and play a few songs for friends. I found myself asking the question « why with all this work can't I even sing in chest voice like I used to ».

I posted a question on this forum and the answer was simple. « Get a good teacher ».

Being a self taught instrumentalist I had trouble getting my head around the Idea that I couldn't do the same with my singing but singing is a precise sport like gymnastics and generally requires guidance to get to another level.

So after much soul searching and looking for the right coach I got in touch with Robert Lunte. I bought the Four Pillars and ordered a few lessons.

First off, the book and lectures are great! Robert debunks alot of myths around singing and it really set me straight on alot of important points. 2nd This might seem silly but it's all about singing and not fill your ears with rubbish trying to sell you another product. And 3rd The program seems to go from a beginner level to a pro level and have excellent content that you can put on to maintain and train your voice once you reach a high level.

So anyway, I had my first lesson with Robert. I was very nervous and afraid of falling down another rabbit hole (in fact I would have probably worked better if I wasn't so nervous). Robert is really good at making you feel comforatble and we got to work.

I quickly realised that I hadn't been paying close enough attention to the videos and that I had been doing a few things wrong. He walked me through it and before I knew it I was singing an A4 in full head voice, loud and boomy. I was a bit slow at first and he actually went over the hour just to give me that experience! To let me know what it feels like and what i'm working for. He said « I can feel your joy » the truth is I was speechless!

Now the reason that I've shared this long-winded personal story with you guys is:

The fact that he got me to sing a big boomy A4 in an hour (which I feel that I've wasted months of my life working for and getting nowhere) is nothing compared to the fact that he took a voice that had suffered from years of chest belting, rough living conditions, cigarettes, mumbling in two languages and then, to finish it all off, training out any good habits I had and started to heal it and showed me how I could continue to heal it. My speaking voice is clear and comfortable for the first time in years.

Later that night I partook in the wine to celebrate and went to the local punk bar, picked up a guitar and the night turned into an acoustic gig with 20 people singing along. The feeling of relief was incredible!

So if you like me are looking at this forum looking for answers mabye you're watching a load of youtube videos and not getting anywhere, STOP!!!

Get a great teacher! Get in touch with Robert or one of his colleagues that may be in your area. I'm far from being rich but this is great value for money.

If singing truly is a sport, I remain convinced that Robert Lunte can teach you to be the Flash.

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... Peter, thank you for sharing your very sincere story! I am just as pleased as you are when I see the TVS techniques working immediately for singers. I remember our lesson and it was a cool moment. The kind of moment where I'm reminded why I'm doing this, outside of making a living. I love to see and hear how TVS techniques are working and helping my students. It validates all the work and sacrifice I have made to develop these techniques and the product, "The Four Pillars of Singing". Its good to know that it all is adding up to something meaningful for singers and is getting results.

You and all my students have my commitment that I will NEVER become the kind of voice coach that just produces a book or a bunch of source files dumped into folders and then walk away and say, "I'm done... now I'll make money". There are a lot of teachers out there like that. Their hearts are not in this for the right reasons. I see a lot of top coaches really doing this, only for the money and in some cases, for the money and for their ego. The "how to sing like"... videos? Its entertaining and impressive to see someone that has 30 years of experience singing these songs impress us all, thats pretty cool. But at the end of the day, what does someone else singing like Dio have to do with you? How is that going to help YOU as a student of singing technique learn about how the voice works and most importantly, learn how to practice and train the voice? Anyways, I digress... not to say that such videos don't offer some credibility and are entertaining... I have some "how to sing like"... videos myself. But I don't pretend to tell students that if I can do it, they can do it too. That is just misleading the consumer to some extent.

Great vocal training not only requires the coach to be able to do it for credibility purposes, but it requires the teacher to be able to TEACH it too. In order to TEACH it, you have to have a method, a product that is superior with training routines, work flows and all the information people need to succeed. "The Four Pillars of Singing" is the best contemporary vocal training program in the world and will continue to get better mostly because... after I 'make the money'... I don't stop. My job is not done after I make money... my job is not done until I know that my clients and students have the best information and product they need to succeed. Thats what Im about... I'm not just showing 'how I can do it'... but I'm mostly about creating products and services that get results for you, not just for me.

So, thats my shameless rant about what Im doing... I have no regrets what so ever, considering the fact that this very forum that I own, is also promoting other teacher's products. Those same teachers have never offered me or students of singing the same opportunity to discuss my products on their web sites?! Why is that? I offer an open forum to discuss any program, but they do not... Hmm, what does that say about my character?

So there you have it... I am eager to help all of you. If you work with TVS, you will get results... provided that you practice... So, I'll just leave you with this... Just as Peter explained above... STOP TRYING TO GET FREE TIPS OFF OF YOUTUBE 'TEASER' CONTENT!!! You will NEVER become the best singer you can be trying be cheap about and taking the easy way, looking for a "vocal tip". It doesn't work that way... you have to get a good teacher, a good product and TRAIN!!!

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Wow thanks Jens... that is a high compliment from such a great singer. I hope we can start training again soon... in regards to the future?

OMG... you guys are are going to see something that will blow you mind soon... updated training routines, advancements on the product... yes!... But, thats not all... What Im about to release will change the game in the industry... After this, other coaches will be suddenly offering the "old stuff", "the Old way"... Im about to unleash a whole new paradigm in the business... in the end, the students of TVS will benefit the most.. it is so F****** cool... stand by...

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Congrats!!!

Rob is definitely great with getting those little instant lightbulb moments out of you - I've seen it in the students in his masterclasses, he'll fix their issues in seconds sometimes. And my first lesson with him marked the start of the growth of my head voice really - no bullshit, he got me up that steep beginning part of the learning curve in a short period of time - just like it's supposed to happen. It was only a matter of days of practicing before I could feel my head voice growing.

It's important to keep in perspective that hitting an A4 in a lesson is only a tiny portion of the process of learning to become a better singer, but it's also important to celebrate/congratulate yourself for finding the solution to a problem, allowing you to get out of a rut, stop hitting a wall, and keep progressing as fast as you can! That's what vocal lessons are for!

Good luck in your journey!!! And KEEP TAKING LESSONS WITH HIM!!! As soon as you go back to self-teaching, the progress stops or slows down...I've seen that with every instrument at every skill level. So do yourself a favor and invest in a commitment to your new teacher on the long term (months at least, preferably years) and your voice with thank you for years to come.

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hi lobster.....

congrats....you're gonna see, as time goes on you'll get other gains (some big, some small) you couldn't even have anticipated.

drink water, lay off the booze, watch your diet, get your sleep, stay focused and confident. get in touch with your inner voice too....don't be afraid to talk to your voice and your mind.

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But at the end of the day, what does someone else singing like Dio have to do with you? How is that going to help YOU as a student of singing technique learn about how the voice works and most importantly, learn how to practice and train the voice? Anyways, I digress... not to say that such videos don't offer some credibility and are entertaining...

Amen, brutha. When I say it, people think I am being lazy. But I have said it before and I will say it again. What is admirable about you is that you are not here to teach people to sing just like Dio, for example. You are here to teach people to be awesome singers, as great as Dio, without being derivative, or a copy.

I have also said, as good as your books are, even some of your verbal explanations are insightful, listening to what you do with a vowel is the key to the kingdom.

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Thanks Ron... I want to be clear, many of the "how to sing like" teachers are good teachers and these videos create a certain kind of credibility and certainly are entertaining. That is why I make a point to do some as well, soon I will be publishing final productions of original songs however. I think I will title them "How to sing like Robert Lunte, singing like Robert Lunte"... LOL! Seriously... just to make a point. The point is... although these "hot to sing like" videos are fun to watch... we forget ourselves when we are watching them... we forget that the objective is not how can a gifted, professional with 35 years of experience "sing like" Dio... but... how can that same person teach me how to become a better singer? What does that teacher have in regards to product and content that teaches me how to practice and gives me tools to be more successful as a student? The "how to sing like" videos are kinda cool, but if the bigger point is to get students because you claim that you can help people learn about vocal training, then... after the show off phase, lets really talk about "HOW" to train the voice.

I think a healthy balance of some show off, "how to sing like" content with some real lessons and content that explains vocal training techniques is a healthy balance.

Isn't getting the best out of myself, with my own sound and capabilities more important? Worrying about singing like someone else is something that less mature singers and beginners do. Those that grow past that, and start singing like themselves, enter a new level of maturity and understanding about singing. The guys that do the "how to sing like" videos know this... they know that beginners are wrapped up in wanting to sing like someone else... but the truth is, they also know, its not the end game... These guys aren't stupid. I just refuse to play that game with the consumer... explore your own voice, its the only voice you have.

So here is one of my "how to sing like" videos... Notice I don't title it, "How to sing like Ian Gillan"? Why? Because I don't want to sing like Ian Gillan?!! I want to sing like Robert Lunte, singing a Deep Purple tribute song. Why do I have to "sing like" Ian Gillan? Why would I pretend to assume that singing like Ian Gillan is some how more impressive or important then singing like myself?! I don't want someone else's vocal tract, I want mine. So here is me, singing like me, singing a Deep Purple song as me... :D

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Those "how to sing like" videos should be called "How to sing in the style of". That would make better sense and be more useful to singers.

I am under the impression that finding the coordination is a big part in singing different styles, along with the training of course.

Recently I saw a video of yours Robert that really opened a new Coordination and Style for me. It may be something that is natural for some people but I need to go through a process to find it. Your "Wind and release" to a "Quack and release" to a "damped larynx" keeping the same accoustic space. All of those independant of each other would lead my voice to different coordination.

Someone who can show you a way to get the coordination needed is a big plus. It is not just the fact that you can do it. You can also lead someone else to do it also.

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Those "how to sing like" videos should be called "How to sing in the style of". That would make better sense and be more useful to singers.

I am under the impression that finding the coordination is a big part in singing different styles, along with the training of course.

Recently I saw a video of yours Robert that really opened a new Coordination and Style for me. It may be something that is natural for some people but I need to go through a process to find it. Your "Wind and release" to a "Quack and release" to a "damped larynx" keeping the same accoustic space. All of those independant of each other would lead my voice to different coordination.

Someone who can show you a way to get the coordination needed is a big plus. It is not just the fact that you can do it. You can also lead someone else to do it also.

Thank you, that is my point. Yes, the TVS Specialized Onsets are really cool... the isolate different musculature so you can build strength and coordination in 8 different ways. They are also used to trouble-shoot problems... I was thumbing through Dr. Robert Miller's book, "The Structure of Singing" and I was really pleased to see that in Chapter 1... the first thing he talks about in this book is... Onsets! Independent of what Dr. Miller had already written about, I had gravitated to the onsets... his onsets are categorized a bit differently and different names, but its the same thing.

The "how to sing like" videos should be titled, "How I sing like..." and then followed up with some meaningful commentary about the physiology and acoustics of it... or onsets or techniques that can help you get into a similar sound... however, I maintain, the underlying premise should not be, how ANYONE can sing like someone else... but how to train the voice to sing like YOU at your best. We need to throttle back on what the teacher can sing messaging and place it back onto what the teacher can teach.

Again, I think these "how to sing like" videos have some value... Everyone would prefer to have a coach that can sing.. so to that end, they establish credibility. For certain, a GOOD teacher that sings has more insights then an equally GOOD teacher that doesn't sing ... but that is only part of the story because singing is not teaching. The ability to sing, does not translate to an equal ability to teach. I would love it if that were the case, it would make the market a lot less crowded ... but the over whelming evidence confirms that singing skills do not directly translate ( 1 to 1) to teaching skills. If you sing at a level 10, that does not confirm that you teach at a level 10.

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Again, I think these "how to sing like" videos have some value... Everyone would prefer to have a coach that can sing.. so to that end, they establish credibility. For certain, a GOOD teacher that sings has more insights then an equally GOOD teacher that doesn't sing ... but that is only part of the story because singing is not teaching. The ability to sing, does not translate to an equal ability to teach. I would love it if that were the case, it would make the market a lot less crowded ... but the over whelming evidence confirms that singing skills do not directly translate ( 1 to 1) to teaching skills. If you sing at a level 10, that does not confirm that you teach at a level 10.

Also true. And for the last line there, many times a singer that is incredible is often striking while the iron is hot, singing professionally while he has the strength and energy to do it.

But also, as you note, there are teachers who teach singing very well even if they don't have a stellar voice. But at least if the teacher can demonstrate the concept, not just describe. I find that I learn different things different ways. My mind speeds up and slows down. So, I am learning Cubase and I find that watching the tutorial vids are fine but stuff slips past me because it is at the pace of the narrator, not me variable speed needs.

So, a good teacher of singing, like you, is adaptable to the student's needs. You can do the speed up or slow way the heck down when it is needed, rather than marching at a predetermined pace.

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Thanks guys for the encouraging words and good advice! I'm looking forward to my next lesson!

As for the how to sing like videos, I think some of them really are aimed at beginners.

It's the same problem for anything in music. The closest thing I have to compare it to is guitar although with guitar contrary to singing you're learning how to play your instrument rather than build it.

In the region where I live there is a guy that capitalizes off begginer students, alot of them want to learn gypsy jazz or blues so he teaches them a few bits of songs but gives them no understanding of why this chord goes with that one etc...

So they all play the same lines and none of them can improvise....even after years of lessons.

If I want to learn vocal technique it's so I can find MY voice and most importantly apply it to MY art! I think it's an important point to get across sometimes to people when they start music. Although I'm very much a beginner at vocal technique.

However some of the guys who do these "how to sing like" videos look like they're good teachers and are really just advertising.

I have to say though that deep purple cover is great. I always get a kick out of 7:47/ 8:04

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As for the how to sing like videos, I think some of them really are aimed at beginners.

It's the same problem for anything in music. The closest thing I have to compare it to is guitar although with guitar contrary to singing you're learning how to play your instrument rather than build it.

Mostly, yeah. Except for Eddie Van Halen and Brian Mays. Eddie built "Frankenstein" from pieces discarded by another luthier. And Mays started with raw wood and built everything by hand. And instead of a regular plastic pick, he used to play with a tuppence.

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I might be wrong but I think Brian May also coiled his pickups backwards, that combined with the attack of the tuppence = good stuff. ;)

I think so, too. And Eddie's mods are a patented secret, literally. He entered into contract with a manufacturer to make a limited run of reproduction "Frankenstein." Limited because, to recreate his guitar requires attaching to it a 1976 US quarter and there were only so many of those left available in circulation or private ownership. So, if I remember, the official Frankenstein issue goes for about $30k USD, each.

Yeah, I read too much.

:/

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Thanks guys for the encouraging words and good advice! I'm looking forward to my next lesson!

As for the how to sing like videos, I think some of them really are aimed at beginners.

It's the same problem for anything in music. The closest thing I have to compare it to is guitar although with guitar contrary to singing you're learning how to play your instrument rather than build it.

In the region where I live there is a guy that capitalizes off begginer students, alot of them want to learn gypsy jazz or blues so he teaches them a few bits of songs but gives them no understanding of why this chord goes with that one etc...

So they all play the same lines and none of them can improvise....even after years of lessons.

If I want to learn vocal technique it's so I can find MY voice and most importantly apply it to MY art! I think it's an important point to get across sometimes to people when they start music. Although I'm very much a beginner at vocal technique.

However some of the guys who do these "how to sing like" videos look like they're good teachers and are really just advertising.

I have to say though that deep purple cover is great. I always get a kick out of 7:47/ 8:04

Lobster,

Agreed on your points there. Certain individuals that do a lot of the "how to sing like" videos are good teachers. I'm not implying that the individuals I'm thinking about are not good voice teachers. One such coach, is one of the best when you consider the industry as a whole, for sure. Im not making commentary on any one individual's aptitude for high quality teaching, only making comment regarding the intent and messaging behind these "how to sing like" videos.

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I like these videos too, they are good...

I have the same challenge as Ken... Im also a high baritone... high stuff is not necessarily easy for me, I have to work my ass off to make it work... years of strengthening, and hard work. One thing I like about Ken is the point he always drives home... it takes hard work and STRENGTHENING of the musculature to really be able to sing well. He is correct and that process never ends... The level of strengthening work that needs to be done is completely lost on the consumer, they are just not really aware of what it takes. Having showered Ken in kudos... I would say, the annotation that says, "Learn how to sing like this"?... thats the part that is a bit of a stretch... really? Is it really more that they can learn to sing well and get better for themselves within their own realistic considerations of time, talent, experience. Ken Tamplin is one of the most coordinated singers in the world and has been doing this for 30+ years... and is gifted on top of all that. Ken is not the 'average guy' with average capabilities or potential.

I will note the Steel Heart video has been processed with EQ, tuning, compression, etc... as has the solo track. The "solo" track does not mean the processing is not there... although I think that is what is being implied... not the case... but that is ok!! There is nothing wrong with that... its the only way to get a final production level that is acceptable for public consumption... This takes nothing away from Ken... processing and tuning is applied to EVERY production, it doesn't matter who you are... People deny using it on the outside because it has been stigmatized,.. Its not "cool"... and then turn straight around and use it in the final production and there is no shame in that... its just the way making recordings works. I hear it all the time on demos on this forum, but it doesn't bother me because I realize its just part of the production process... but the average reader doesn't hear it.

Ken Tamplin is an awesome singer. In the end, to my point, this is singing... its impressive and entertaining. It is not a discussion about how to train your voice that is attainable for the average guy. I think Ken is a fantastic singer and a good teacher.

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i love what you wrote below.....and how you wrote it.....awesome!!!

I have to work my ass off to make it work... years of strengthening, and hard work. One thing I like about Ken is the point he always drives home... it takes hard work and STRENGTHENING of the musculature to really be able to sing well. He is correct and that process never ends... The level of strengthening work that needs to be done is completely lost on the consumer, they are just not really aware of what it takes.

and the support muscles too...uh oh!......i can feel daniel and owen coming after me....lol!!!!

(just kidding guys.......)

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Oh I'm coming after you, you asked for it :lol:

Actually Bob, I see nothing wrong with strengthening the support muscles. For the times where you actually need that much strength down there. On a long high belt, on a foreigner song like you love to do, etc. But you just have to realize singing isn't always so difficult that you need to use that much support strength through whole songs, even if you need to sound powerful. The goal is always, always, not only getting the sound you want but conserving energy doing it. Sometimes I wonder if you understand that.

Just because you have a big voice doesn't mean you need to use it in a big way to get a big sound. As a big baritone by nature myself, I'm training largely to get away from that so I can be versatile. What I'm learning more about my voice is, I can sound sufficiently big with a lot less effort than I used to think I needed.

So many times in a lesson with Phil (who trained with Ken so he knows how it is), I'd sing through a phrase in my "big voice" full chesty way, and then sing in a coordinated mix which gives me exponentially more stamina, and Phil would say something like "I hope this doesn't came as a scary surprise but I barely heard any difference in power, so definitely go with the mixed version if that's easier for you". Yet I felt so much more effort when I was trying to restrict myself to my fullest voice. Other times on phrases even in the passaggio range he'd have me experiment with more or less tension in the belly and often less tension was the answer and what fixed problems. So it's not just about relieving effort up there in the throat, you can conserve quite a lot of support effort too.

Anyways, it all DEPENDS Bob, and you really have a tendency to be biased toward the effort side of things...

Thinking to the pros who do multiple shows a week, don't you understand they would kill themselves if they were focused on using a herculean effort to get the sound they want? They have to do the opposite, get the sound out with the less effort (not none, just less). Steve Perry has mentioned this in an interview someone posted here. Even Lou Gramm, you heard him say this - when he was talking about he feels warmed up when he reaches a timbre that makes singing feel easier for him. And our fellow Billy Budapest was just talking in a different thread a week or so ago about how he has trouble with stamina and discovered he just can't afford give his 100% power all the time if he's performing 4 hours a night.

Brute strength always gives up eventually - fine coordination can get you going seemingly infinitely. Singing requires both, but it's about knowing when to use which - it's really not mostly the former. Never met a coach who advocated that.

Relating back to the topic, I'm pretty sure the OP experienced a same thing with Rob, he couldn't find a way to break from his constricted belting that stopped at G#4 and Rob helped him find an easier technique to get above it, but without throwing away all the power for pure falsetto. I'd guarantee you that A4 didn't come in one lesson just because he get the student to PUSH more! Knowing Robert I'd bet he just showed the student how to coordinate his voice more efficiently and getting him into a nice resonant, intrinsic anchored head voice to reduce throat constriction instead of pulling up more "weight'.

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i'm not coming after you i just feel that you just don't quite get it yet, so you will equate "harder to do" with"harder to do".

See the thing is bob I'm not searching anymore, I don't question anything I do vocally i know why and how I do it, now I can teach it if i didn't know for certain than I wouldn't teach it...

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i agree with everything you both said...however, "it all depends" is the best reply.....

but supporting, pushing (how i see pushing) that little extra, giving it more has gotten me to sounds that there is no way i would have gotten to otherwise....maybe what i did is i set out to get the sound and depth of singers i admired and i was not of a similar voice......but i achieved them...lucky, stubborn, focused.

i maybe over did things, but i chose to...i sang in many bands in the past clueless on what i was doing...

for example i can (now) get the power and depth of a lot of the old black belters i had always hoped i could sing the songs of and sound that "rich."

temptations

the four tops

muddy waters

lloyd price

eddie floyd

barrett strong

edwin starr

these are the voices i was after the tone of....once i got my support where i wanted it....they became achievable..what can i say....

but it's not just about effort and taking a dump...not at all. i like to maximize the sound be it loud or soft....

.

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i agree with everything you both said...however, "it all depends" is the best reply.....

but supporting, pushing (how i see pushing) that little extra, giving it more has gotten me to sounds that there is no way i would have gotten to otherwise....maybe what i did is i set out to get the sound and depth of singers i admired and i was not of a similar voice......but i achieved them...lucky, stubborn, focused.

i maybe over did things, but i chose to...i sang in many bands in the past clueless on what i was doing...

for example i can (now) get the power and depth of a lot of the old black belters i had always hoped i could sing the songs of and sound that "rich."

temptations

the four tops

muddy waters

lloyd price

eddie floyd

barrett strong

edwin starr

these are the voices i was after the tone of....once i got my support where i wanted it....they became achievable..what can i say....

but it's not just about effort and taking a dump...not at all. i like to maximize the sound be it loud or soft..

.

no

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