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Lobster510

My First Lesson with Robert Lunte I hit an A4!!!

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If we are just critiquing Ken's videos and nobody is gonna get upset i would just like to say I personally think he sings with much to much strain and pressing. If he allowed the voice instead of strained the voice his tongue would relax for one and his sound would be much more open and free instead of stuck in his throat. The voice needs to adjust from note to note not be forced into a space .

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Interesting factoid for this thread. 2 days ago I left a lengthy posting in regards to this. It has gone missing...deleted. I wonder what happened? or did I offend somebody?

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If we are just critiquing Ken's videos and nobody is gonna get upset i would just like to say I personally think he sings with much to much strain and pressing. If he allowed the voice instead of strained the voice his tongue would relax for one and his sound would be much more open and free instead of stuck in his throat. The voice needs to adjust from note to note not be forced into a space .

True, there is no need for tongue tension. And I personally dont find the quality in the videos something I would want for me, some stuff sound cool like the Dave Grohl videos. But on a lot of the material, too much attention on trying to be powerful and sing high, and the music, in my opinion, gets on second plane.

On what Rob said, in particular about tunning, sorry but its not true. Even take lanes just get in the way if you start to abuse it. Some effects are necessary of course, compression, eq, etc. But studying the song well so that you can just sing it, replaces the correction tools. That of course speaking of voice teaching and training.

If you are coaching someone recording on a studio to squeeze every last drop of quality you can get, I reccon its another story.

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Yeah tis a pity the site played up, alot of comments have been lost.

To the guy that was on here yesterday inquiring about the lesson:

Go for it!

It was a skype lesson and worked great!

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Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments etc.

I see my post from yesterday are missing, I think you may have a malfunction in your website.

Robert, thanks for your kind words about my singing.

I did want to mention there was no "tuning at all" in fact the reason I posted the solo vocal afterwords was so that people could hear that there were no "artifacts" at all in the vocal (which would have been very obvious) to show that there was no tuning of any kind.

@ Daniel, while I respect your critiques all I'm asking for from everyone is transparency. I would like to see the vocal instructors hosting current things, More than six seconds like the video you posted, to showcase entire songs that demonstrate their technique and also showcased students songs that demonstrate how well your technique is working. I believe it is easy to hide behind self-congratulation and pedagogy.

And regarding my tongue: This is the most relaxed position of Open Throat Technique. First you train the tongue flat to the base of the mandible, then concave to the jaw, then in it's most relaxed state it will protrude away from the back of the throat creating maximum space in the back of the throat for perfect vocal tract shaping (as well as using it in place of hard consonants and glottal stops which become problematic and constrictive especially when singing hard rock).

The point of the video was to demonstrate that a baritone like myself, (that "should have no business" singing in these ranges) can do so effectively (in fact I even went several notes higher than .

As far as the "how to sing like" series. This started by request but I would like to point out a very important aspect to this:

No one should "clone" anyone but if we are honest with ourselves, we all have influences. ALL of us. And it is the total sum of those influences, and how we "re-present" or represent those influences and make them our own that show the depth and breadth of our abilities and tool box. In all of my "How To Sing Like" videos, I still sound like Ken Tamplin, but I have a flavor of the artist and is meant to demonstrate how their "style" can be achieved safely in the wake of either the original artist losing their voice, or those that try to imitate them, This showcases range, vocal timber and style for different color and flavors for diverse singing. . (notice in my Jagger stuff, I don't try to sound exactly like Jagger, that would be ridiculous :-)

I saw somewhere in the forums where it was said that just because Ken Tamplin is a great vocalists, singing covers for 30 years, doesn't make him a great teacher.

So below I decided to post Ken Tamplin singing like Ken Tamplin singing his original music and examples of students that demonstrate the Ken Tamplin's vocal technique.

(Ihave approx 40 commercially released CD's, over 30 of them are original)

Let's start with an original song of mine here:

Here are a couple more for anyone interested:

I can post many ballads as well that are not heavy singing if anyone would like me to:

Here are a couple of videos of just one of my students (not singing 6 second clips but entire songs showcasing her technique)

Her name is Gabriela singing everything from Glenn Hughes, to Chris Cornell, to Dave Grohl, To Leona Lewis, Christina Aguillera, Adele and the list goes on.

Here are a few for anyone interested:

I look forward to everyone's continued transparency to showcase their techniques as I believe the proof is in the actual singing.

Thanks for allowing me to defend myself and good vocal pedagogy.

-KT

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Look at me look at me! ken you must feel a little threatened to post all that. I don't think anyone was throwing you under the bus just stating their opinion. I'm sure you are a fine teacher, singer guitar player, writer, chef ,anthropologist mathematician, lawyer etc.....

Good luck in the future.

On a side note I don't have a lot of time to make videos but if anyone wants to, feel free to contact me and ask me to sing the song you want to learn and I'll just sing it via Skype or on the phone for ya.

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Look at me look at me! ken you must feel a little threatened to post all that. I don't think anyone was throwing you under the bus just stating their opinion. I'm sure you are a fine teacher, singer guitar player, writer, chef ,anthropologist mathematician, lawyer etc.....

Good luck in the future.

A little harsh there Dan...

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I didnt mean it to be harsh. But He didnt need to post all that, we know how accomplished he is. We know why he posted it but thats another story. Ken is a teacher so is Rob and Felipe and there are enough people that want to learn from different personalities.

If Ken took offense to this

I'm sorry for that.

I mean no ill will to anyone or especially anyone teaching or playing music.

God bless

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My posting is still missing....

sl,

Here's the email that Robert sent to the forum members today, April 23 2014 @ 2:15 A.M. >>

TMV FORUM MEMBERS,

AN ACCIDENTAL SETTING IN THE ADMINISTRATION SYSTEM IN THE TMV WORLD FORUM ACCIDENTALLY DELETED DATA TODAY.

WE HAVE CONTACTED THE HOST COMPANY AND THEY HAVE RESTORED THE DATABASE TO A BACK UP DATE APPROXIMATELY 48 HOURS AGO.

THEREFORE, POSTS AND ACTIVITY FOR THE LAST 48 HOURS OR SO, MAY OF BEEN LOST UNFORTUNATELY.

OUR APOLOGIES FOR THE INCONVENIENCE!

ROBERT

And no, you didn't offend anyone.....

Warmest Regards,

Adolph

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True, there is no need for tongue tension. And I personally dont find the quality in the videos something I would want for me, some stuff sound cool like the Dave Grohl videos. But on a lot of the material, too much attention on trying to be powerful and sing high, and the music, in my opinion, gets on second plane.

On what Rob said, in particular about tunning, sorry but its not true. Even take lanes just get in the way if you start to abuse it. Some effects are necessary of course, compression, eq, etc. But studying the song well so that you can just sing it, replaces the correction tools. That of course speaking of voice teaching and training.

If you are coaching someone recording on a studio to squeeze every last drop of quality you can get, I reccon its another story.

I didn't say anything about "abusing" any effects or tools in the studio Felipe... Of course my comments were based on proper and tasteful use.

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Yeah tis a pity the site played up, alot of comments have been lost.

To the guy that was on here yesterday inquiring about the lesson:

Go for it!

It was a skype lesson and worked great!

Lobster,

Thanks for posting this again and helping to keep the discussion on track to your original premise... I appreciate it.

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Hey power if you thought that was harsh it was really just the east coast bust balls coming out in me. Whenever one of my friends talks to much about themselves we say "so enough about me what do you think about me" Its just poking fun and having fun. Again Ken has a solid reputation aside from the SLS bashing. So I'm sure he would laugh that off. I know I would.

so no hard feelings take care

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Thanks, Lobster for your kind post that recognized my hard work and our success together. I appreciate it...

Here, we have a post that was originally a nice compliment for the work that I do... A compliment that I earned with my hard work and a nice gesture from one of my students... its not titled, "... Big ego shoot out amongst voice coaches". I have great respect for all you guys, but I just find, given the original intent of this post... that the puffery that has gone on here to be inconsiderate.

Anyways... when any of you finally get bored with the puffery and ego displays and just want to train and work on your voice... let me know... I'll be here...

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Ken is a pro. When someone says something about me , I know the truth what do i care what others think I already have a good rep like Ken. In other words when people write negative comments on my youtube vids I let them, I love it cause I'm comfy knowing the truth.

Robert I agree. And believe me I will not "critique" anymore I see that some people take it a little hard. And for that I am sorry for offending anyone...

peace

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really? the way I see it is that rob was indirectly saying that ken only does covers and "how to be a clone of another singer" and so ken addressed it by showing he's done heaps of his own stuff and also addressed the lame excuse of "well just cos you can sing doesn't mean you can teach" by showing students that are getting good results. obviously you're free to agree or disagree with what someone says but what sort of response do you think he should have taken instead?

I think Ken has every right to respond if people are taking referring to him, for sure. For the record Phil... I was not implying that Ken doesn't have original music, I know he does.

And Phil... I have not only been teaching for over 15 years, but I have managed teams of voice teachers as a contractor for TC-Helicon... are you familiar with "Voice Council"? I started that project Phil about 7 years ago.. the "voice council" was a group of teachers that I recruited for a marketing project with TC-Helicon... I also have a growing certified instructor program... each of my teachers train over 40 hours with me and take tests on TVS Methodology. I am a teacher of teachers Phil. Its a line item on my resume that I would venture to guess that no other voice coach in this discussion has more experience with, even Ken. I am also a member of NATS and TVF and on and on... I am categorically telling you, that the ability to sing does not guarantee that you have the ability to teach. Now, Ken can do both... I can do both and there are a handful of teachers that can do both. God bless them all... it adds more insight and value to your growth as a teacher and for your students... its preferred in my opinion... However, there are some great teachers that don't sing. ... and I have seen people that sing amazing, as good or arguably better then Ken..., but they are not intuitive for teaching... they struggle with it, they don't have the same gift for it.

Teaching Voice Technique and Singing have the potential to compliment each other for a talented few.. but they are two very different skill sets... and there are no guarantees that if you can sing, you can teach... or if you teach, you can sing. Consumers are led to believe that if you can sing... you can teach... its a logical conclusion if you don't know any better, but its just another point of confusion in an industry that is already chalk full of misunderstandings that consumers in this industry suffer from.

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Ken is a pro. When someone says something about me , I know the truth what do i care what others think I already have a good rep like Ken. In other words when people write negative comments on my youtube vids I let them, I love it cause I'm comfy knowing the truth.

Robert I agree. And believe me I will not "critique" anymore I see that some people take it a little hard. And for that I am sorry for offending anyone...

peace

Dan your fine... I don't think you have anything to apologize for... relax.

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Teaching Voice Technique and Singing have the potential to compliment each other for a talented few.. but they are two very different skill sets... and there are no guarantees that if you can sing, you can teach... or if you teach, you can sing.

This is kinda off topic Robert, but I totally get how someone who can sing can't teach to save his life, but how is it possible for someone who can't sing to teach singing?

Can someone who isn't or at least was a pilot teach how to fly planes? Can someone who isn't a guitar player teach how to play guitar?

I mean, how can anyone teach something or claim to be an instructor if they can't show the student how it needs to be done? How can a student take a teacher seriously if they can't set an example for them ?

Can anyone name any other field of study where a teacher can't do what he's teaching?

It's ridiculous how many singing videos there are on YouTube, where someone is "teaching" or explaining vocal topics without ever giving an actual vocal example of what they're talking about.

I'm telling you with the exception of a selected few, the world of singing teachers and instructors is filled with charlatans and posers. It should be illegal.

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Teaching without being able to do what you are teaching is just sharing information. That is helpful and it technically qualifies as teaching if you think about it, but it is simply not what most vocal students are looking for.

The only times I can think of this teaching-without-doing being possible and somewhat effective is if the teacher does scientific research on the subject, studying others instead of themselves.

That being said, what are you referring to Power? I've never seen a vocal coach on youtube that couldn't give an example of what they're talking about. Some teachers demonstrate better or worse or more or less frequently than others, some just have a habit of talking a lot and a lot of answering questions from "viewers" - "so and so for such and such place asks, 'can i learn to sing without straining' 'the answer is yes you can because...[four minutes explanation followed by short boring demonstration of easy vocal exercise]'"...boy it gets old and it's boring as hell for anyone who's ever sang before to watch, but, hey, that's what the absolute novice crowd (majority of youtube viewers) are into, they want to know if singing is for them and what to expect. Not every vocal teaching video needs a demonstration.

Do you mean you have heard youtube coaches who only ever just talk, in every single video?

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That being said, what are you referring to Power? I've never seen a vocal coach on youtube that couldn't give an example of what they're talking about.

Do you mean you have heard youtube coaches who only ever just talk, in every single video?

Well, there are a couple of guys that immediately come to mind like Roger Burnley and Bret Manning.

I remember several years ago when I was starting out, like a lot of newbs I was looking at YT vids and came across these two guys who were selling expensive program/courses and seemed to be these very in demand "Vocal coach to the stars" types, but 98% of the time all they do is talk and talk and when they did perform any demonstration or scale or whatever, all I heard were pretty ugly, non musical sounds.

There are several others like them out there in YT land.

Maybe it's just me, but if these guys charge top dollar for their programs and super top dollar for their private lessons, they should be able to sing anything, anytime, on demand.

That's why I respect Ken and Rob, they can do what they say they do, and you can see alot of their stuff on YT before spending the $ on their product.

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Not quite what Power was asking. There are some good sports coaches who did not play pro.

But I get it, though, better to have the advice of someone who has been there. To equate to martial arts, I have had both class instruction and informal instruction from a friend who served 3 active combat tours, on the ground, deep in-county, in Viet Nam. The friend in the latter, his experience is more valuable, to the point (pun intended,) And all I can say is that it was not designed for scoring points in a tournament. It was designed to make the other guy stop breathing and me walk away, still alive. Which is a different perspective.

So, I get the perspective of valuable learning from someone who has been there but a level of professional success may depend on what people think is important about that level. What if you had a martial arts instructor who did not go to the big Asian vacation but he grew up in a tough city? Or at least had a staring match with Robert Van Winkle?

:lol:

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Power I get it too... thats why I say, if you can have a teacher that also sings AND can demonstrate their own vocal workouts like I do, your in better hands. But Im just telling you that, there are people that don't sing a lick and can teach you a lot about singing... Now let me make one thing clear... I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CHARLATANS AND RIP-OFFS ON YOUTUBE! To that point, I couldn't agree with you more.. YouTube has become very crowded with a lot of people that don't know anything about vocal technique or singing accept how to speak the "buzz" words..... it drives me and Ken and Kevin Richards and the real deal guys crazy... seriously... don't even get me started... :mad:

The kind of people that don't sing, but can teach you something tend to be research scientists types, authors of books, etc... people that understand theory and the acoustics of singing. The book work stuff... which is important... and you don't get that on YouTube... YouTube has turned into a cheap flea market of dime store voice technique videos of people trying to "get in" on an easy buck by using vocal technique talk-track and "buzz" words like "mixed voice" and "bel canto" and "appoggio" and don't have flipp'n clue what it really means.

And BTW... Power... this whole discussion is off topic... because the title of this forum is, "My First Lesson with Robert Lunte I hit an A4!!!"... Its not about people pasting their resumes in here to try to prove that they are "better" to get more sales... GMAFB? ... its about my client and my services... or maybe its about the unique issues around an A4... which there are several and if you become my student, Ill explain it and demonstrate it for you... :cool:

And since this post is about my services, I would like readers to know... unlike any other program, Ill offer you a book, training routines, work flows and content. The Four Pillars of Singing, actually teaches you how to practice/train. If a voice coach has actually taken the time to do research and develop a method that requires a 400 page book, I suggest you take a close look at whats going on, past the hype. Only a handful of coaches have bothered to do it... why? Because its f****** hard and takes a LOT of time and work and commitment! I think writing a book on top of audio and video content is a bigger commitment to the success of your students. It shows that you care enough to really develop your ideas and write them down, instead ONLY turning on a cam corder ... just doing audio and video content is easy. You turn on the camera and you blab, sing or demonstrate... I know, Ive don't hundreds of them... A/V is important and its a good place to start, but those that write books offer a certain level of scholarship and commitment to their craft that is unique otherwise... There is a kind of , "disposable paper cup" vibe that comes with ONLY offering videos as a coach, especially if its just YouTube... Videos are great for communicating effectively and should be a part of an overall presentation. They are great for making a flashy impression, or hitting the surface level of a topic... but go deep and get the depth of the subject matter...;)

Now I got to teach for four hours... including new teachers in The Netherlands...

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I would just like to add to the debate about singing versus teaching or both. In the end what really matters is the student. If the student is evolving and are pleased with the results then the teacher has succeeded whether he can sing or not.

That's basically it in my opinion. :)

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I would just like to add to the debate about singing versus teaching or both. In the end what really matters is the student. If the student is evolving and are pleased with the results then the teacher has succeeded whether he can sing or not.

That's basically it in my opinion. :)

Yes. Thank you Martin... I have really enjoyed your posts as of late... Martin knows what he is talking about... one of the experts on this forum... great to hear from ya old 'friend'.

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YouTube has turned into a cheap flea market of dime store voice technique videos of people trying to "get in" on an easy buck by using vocal technique talk-track and "buzz" words

What a hilariously accurate assessment. Great way of putting it.

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