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Felipe Carvalho

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Ha ha daniel I dont care, its fun to stir the pot I wasnt offended or anything good sir. I think its cool you are a baritone if he is right. Shows that your training works, you truly taught yourself how to sing like you wanted. Just goes to prove that fach doesnt matter in contemporary. I mean do you even have the breaks where a baritone should have them?

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Your expanded post daniel goes on to help my point that fach matters to the point of everyones mechanism is different. That is my whole point of why it is so important in opera. At the max there is only so much you can do to alter the sound from who you really are. Because you are having to sing at 100 percent efficiency

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i have breaks all over the place :/ as a matter of fact i need a break :)

Ha ha smarty smarty had a party but nobody came. That is from my grandmother when I was a kid ha ha

Also all this is why I say that what felipe said, train the voice as a name not a fach is the best approach.

Fach is just a tool in classical for reasons I have already said....

This thread shall be never ending ha ha, least the blast zone is contained

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I chimed in only because I actually did go to someone last week that has never heard a note out of my mouth. And i wanted to see what i would be classified as.  I never meant to cause any confusion or animosity. I figured it was relevant to the thread. 

 

also Killer ku when you said :The reason why I've made my point is that people will come on here, and squeeze their balls and throats trying to hit your notes without a solid foundation. They can and they will do this. I'm confident they already do. It takes a huge amount of work and effort, to get those notes, and imo I think it's more work for a baritone than a tenor. When people say 'fach doesn't matter' it sounds encouraging to me as if people should just squeeze that little bit harder like a classical tenor probably could get away with."

 

the soundcloud you demonstrated, was that on how to squeeze without solid foundation or were you just showing how you sing? IT wasnt clear if it was for teaching or showing the technique you actually use? 

 

it was mostly for curiosity. The first part was there as I had previously said I believe a low note was probably a more realistic depiction of the type of voice you have than a high note, due to acoustics and physiological limitations, but it could be faked. It was showing how low notes can be faked, which would be very unhelpful in figuring out what kind of voice you have or what to do with it. The second was basically a way I've personally found of lightening the voice up top when singing more in tenor range.

 

You couldn't hear the weight coming off when it transitioned from Bruce Springsteen to Little Richard? Elvis to Jackie Wilson? Or Ray Charles to Al Green? It was about how I learned to shed weight.

 

The point was basically that I couldn't sing up there until I learned to take the weight off, but it took years first to have a comfortable lower end voice that worked as a singing voice in the first place. I gained a comfortable low end by singing to baritones first and then learned to shed weight as appropriate. To sum it up, one solution is to basically make the top more heady. 

 

I can see how someone could misconstrue as wanting to push their voices though. It was poorly articulated. So you're right about that.

 

Edit:

 

I read back and there was also typo on 'lightening the tone, which said tightening, so I can see how this would be extra confusing and you are justified in your concern. My apologies on that.

 

You know what, it was a bad explanation on my part. Regardless of what you think of my voice, my current style of singing works for me. I've never gone hoarse or experienced any deterioration from it. The sensations in my singing voice are not squeezed or forced and the sounds/tones/timbres can be turned on and off at will. When a sensation feels wrong, I stop using that technique. Whether my foundation is solid enough to sing is subjective, but after years of singing I'm pretty aware of my voice. I consider it strong enough to make comfortable sounds and am satisfied to work with these sounds. If they naturally expand I will accept it, but am not hunting for, squeezing or pushing for anything more than has already been done hundreds of times at this point with no hoarseness of fatigue.

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I have not known Daniel to "stir the pot," make statements to spoil or rile up a debate for the purposes of entertainment.

 

In fact, at least the way I interpreted it, he offered the experience of visiting a voice teacher to be told he was a baritone in spite of singing pretty much just tenor music. It was a not a slam against voice teachers. It was, I think, in support of Felipe's point. These descriptions are useless outside of a classical arena and also, it could depend on what day it is and whom you ask as to what voice type you are.

 

So, why would Daniel be accused of stirring the pot? I don't know.

 

This thread was started to answer the gazillion starting threads from new members. "What fach am I? I sing from this note to this note." But if it is going to be an endless beating of the same dead horse, forever and into infinity, if it can be confined here, maybe that will be okay.

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Well Daniel sings Stevie Wonder and Perry just awesome, said multiple times that these are some of his lifelong references, and there you go classified as baritone.

Thanks for the info Dan, really helpful.

And guys please, refrain from just repeating yourselves on the same point. Let's go from the assumption that we all can read just fine ;).

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I have not known Daniel to "stir the pot," make statements to spoil or rile up a debate for the purposes of entertainment.

In fact, at least the way I interpreted it, he offered the experience of visiting a voice teacher to be told he was a baritone in spite of singing pretty much just tenor music. It was a not a slam against voice teachers. It was, I think, in support of Felipe's point. These descriptions are useless outside of a classical arena and also, it could depend on what day it is and whom you ask as to what voice type you are.

So, why would Daniel be accused of stirring the pot? I don't know.

As I told daniel I was just messing with him. As I have said many times majority of what I say is a joke or sarcastic. I was just having a friendly banter.

I also told him I thought it was cool that he was labeled a baritone but sing what he does. Shows his method of teaching works, and shows he truly taught himself how to sing they way HE wanted.

If those are huge evil accusations then shame on me I guess. To me it was friendly banter followed by what I considered a fairly big compliment. I think I need to stop posting so much, this isnt the 1st time something I said has gotten blown out of proportion. Makes me scratch my head.

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As I told daniel I was just messing with him. As I have said many times majority of what I say is a joke or sarcastic. I was just having a friendly banter.

I also told him I thought it was cool that he was labeled a baritone but sing what he does. Shows his method of teaching works, and shows he truly taught himself how to sing they way HE wanted.

If those are huge evil accusations then shame on me I guess. To me it was friendly banter followed by what I considered a fairly big compliment. I think I need to stop posting so much, this isnt the 1st time something I said has gotten blown out of proportion. Makes me scratch my head.

Hehe that's the very reason I'm on this board, abit of banter and some arguing. If we didn't have any conflicting views there wouldn't be much of a forum to begin with or well a very boring forum.

There are a lot of these back patting forums(your totally the best bro! No you are!;) ) usually they are very dead and doesn't get to the depth of anything.

Atleast I've never learned anything from them, I learn usually when I'm proven wrong then I change my view or get some new facts that support my existing view. Wich is kindo cool as I can backtrack my own thoughts on the net, if I look back 6 years it's a totally diffrent "jens" that's writing.

Other then that grind your teeth thicken your hide ;) I think your posts are cool cheers

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Oh no worries sir my skin is rhino thick. The real problem is my new years resolution last year was to be mr positive ha ha. Alot of people mainly my wife, says I was mr negative. I never thought I was, I viewed myself as a realist. Say the good with the bad, equal opportunity. Instead of sticking my head in a hole.

Anyways this year is almost over and I havent broken my resolution. 2015 I am recanting though ha ha, going back to being a realist. If i dont vent some 2015, someone is gonna see me on the news at the top of a clock tower ha ha. My sub conscious is bottled up to the max with bottled up emotions lol.

So i couldnt let my almost year long hot streak get ruined over something that didnt even happen. If I am gonna attack someone, I always make it obviously known to even the most dense skulled individual.

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Plus I like a place where it isnt everyone playing patticake ha. That is where bad performances are born. If you care about someone you should tell them they suck if they do. 95 percent it can be fixed, and if it cant least you keep them from being laughed at on stage lol. "Maybe you should focus on the back stage work in the music world" ha ha

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You should try and visit a guitarist forum - it takes much less to make us go postal.

As instrumentals was the first language of music for me, and have spent a majority of my time as a keys/guitar player. He speaks the truth lol....guitar players are some pre madanas, especially leads(yes I have had a few momments myself lol). If you say anything that even remotely goes against what they believe, you will pay dearly ha ha.

I would say my work in the drum world, those people seem the most laid back. But if you mention drum head tuning or wood choice you will get their feathers ruffled lol

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As instrumentals was the first language of music for me, and have spent a majority of my time as a keys/guitar player. He speaks the truth lol....guitar players are some pre madanas, especially leads(yes I have had a few momments myself lol). If you say anything that even remotely goes against what they believe, you will pay dearly ha ha.

I would say my work in the drum world, those people seem the most laid back. But if you mention drum head tuning or wood choice you will get their feathers ruffled lol

 

You know how many guitarists it takes to change a light bulb?

 

Five.

 

1 to do it and 4 to stand around and say "I can do that."

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As instrumentals was the first language of music for me, and have spent a majority of my time as a keys/guitar player. He speaks the truth lol....guitar players are some pre madanas, especially leads(yes I have had a few momments myself lol). If you say anything that even remotely goes against what they believe, you will pay dearly ha ha.

I would say my work in the drum world, those people seem the most laid back. But if you mention drum head tuning or wood choice you will get their feathers ruffled lol

 

I thought that drum head tuning is something that drives other band members crazy (?)

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If by that you mean everyone is amped to practice and the drummer is just over there pecking on 15 different spots on the heads holding up everything in a seemingly endless loop ha ha...I have been on both ends of this, seems like a good idea when you are playing the drums. However, when you are the one waiting, then usually I imagine how many different ways I could break the stick and shank him with it lol.

Or pissing off the sound guy with snare or kick tuning or deadening. Though not too long ago, I was told to put a pillow in the kick(which I hate) by the sound guy when be came down, I shouldnt have kicked it but I didnt know he was by me. So i said ok, but didnt change a thing (was already stressed in a bad mood) waited for everyone else, and the sound guy was happy??

Also by tuning I more meant how to tune. Tune the drums by ear, to notes, 3rds, 5ths. How to tune the reso to the beater, 3rd, 5ths, ear ect....it will start a long endless thread like this one. With alot of people getting but hurt and fist through walls in between lol.

That is the only thing that sucks with singing. Instruments, if it sounds good.....goood keep it that way. Singing not quite that free, if sounds good, keep it, then the next month you cant speak lol. Of course this only goes for un healthy sounds, but there are some that just sound so good.

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If by that you mean everyone is amped to practice and the drummer is just over there pecking on 15 different spots on the heads holding up everything in a seemingly endless loop ha ha...I have been on both ends of this, seems like a good idea when you are playing the drums. However, when you are the one waiting, then usually I imagine how many different ways I could break the stick and shank him with it lol.

 

Ahhh... waiting for the drummer... story of my life. 

 

Singers, with their breathing exercises and herbal tea just don't understand. They just don't. 

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Ha ha, as wearing many different hats I try to think of all different angles and make everyone happy. But I do feel the glares from time to time ha ha. So when I am in the other shoes I try to show patience, but it is tough.

6 years ago when I injured my hand on the road. I felt like a horses ass. I had to take pain killers, then soak my hand in hot water, then a shot, then aleve, more hot water, then my last shot. All this before every show or practice. Sitting there like a buffoon with my hand in water, then it would get too cool, have to walk back dump it get more. I learned my lesson. I finshed the scheduled run with them though, suprised i wasnt stabbed by one of them.

And then you have dio, apparently he would show up, go cough cough, then just start singing lol.

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  • 4 months later...

I don't believe this was poster here yet:
 

Passaggi Locations For Male Voices

G3 and C4
These passaggi locations are generally associated with the low bass (basso profundo), who has a low-lying tessitura and range. This exceptionally rare voice type often sings in the vocal fry register. Choral parts designated 'Bass' do not reflect the range and tessitura of a true bass. Instead, these lines are more suitable for lower baritones, such as bass-baritones or dramatic baritones. (In the case of choral music, 'Bass' denotes a voice part or designated vocal line rather than a voice type. Men who sing bass parts in choirs often mistakenly assume that they are indeed basses.)
Ab3 and Db4
These passaggi are generally associated with the lyric bass (basso cantante), a lighter bass voice, likely with more agility and an ability to handle more florid passages than a heavier bass voice.
A3 and D4
These pitches reflect the registration pivotal points of the bass-baritone, an intermediate voice type with a range and tessitura lying somewhere between that of the bass and that of the baritone. He may have an extensive lower range, but have more of the timbral qualities of the baritone. He may also exhibit the upper range of a baritone.
Bb3 and Eb4
These pitches reflect the registration transition locations for a dramatic baritone (baritono drammatico). The dramatic baritone is a heavier-weighted baritone voice that is richer and fuller, and sometimes harsher, than a lyric baritone and with a darker quality.
B3 and E4
These passaggi locations reflect those of the lyric baritone (baritone lirico). The lyric baritone is a lighter-weighted baritone voice that is often mistakenly classified as a dramatic tenor because of the lighter timbre and the vocal agility (dexterity) as compared to other baritones.
C4 and F4
These passaggi locations reflect those of either the baritone-tenor or the robust tenor (tenore robusto). These tenor voices are the heaviest and lowest of all tenor voices. Singers who change registers as these locations may eventually have to choose between training as either a baritone or a tenor.
C#4 and F#4
These notes reflect the passaggi locations for the dramatic tenor (tenore drammatico). The dramatic tenor is a tenor of substantial weight, with a rich, emotive, ringing, dark-toned, very powerful and dramatic voice.
D4 and G4
The spinto tenor (tenore spinto), also called a lyric-dramatic tenor, changes registers roughly at these pitches. This voice has the brightness and height of a lyric tenor, but a heavier vocal weight, enabling the voice to be 'pushed' to dramatic climaxes with less strain than the lighter-voiced tenors. Some spinto tenors may have a somewhat darker timbre than a lyric tenor, as well, without being as dark as a dramatic tenor.
These passaggi locations may also reflect those of a lyric tenor (tenore lirico). The lyric tenor voice is warm and graceful, with a bright, full timbre that is strong enough to be heard over an orchestra but is not heavy.
D#4 and G#4
The light tenor (tenore leggiero) likely changes registers at these two notes. This voice is a light, lyric instrument, is very agile and is able to perform difficult and florid (fioritura) passages.
E4 (or F4) and A4 (or A#4)
The high tenor (tenorino) likely changes registers at these notes. This tenor has the highest upper range and tessitura of all tenors. His voice is very agile and he may have an extensive falsetto range or be capable of countertenoring.


Source: http://www.singwise.com/cgi-bin/main.pl?section=articles&doc=DeterminingVocalFach&page=2


Finding the exact locations isn't so straight forward though,
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  • 2 weeks later...

There are about 30 different vocal fachs and a range is NOT enough to determine the fach.

Fachs are determined by sound, range, registration events (where the voice shifts), volume, flexibility. It is important for all genres, not just classical because the more intimate you are with your voice, the more that you can know what to expect from it, what adjustments to make, etc. 

It's not helpful to fach under the age of 25. (Be mature, guys) :) because the singer is most likely still developing. 

However, like music, there is a lot of crossing between fachs. It's much easier to classify lighter higher voices and lower fuller voices, but the medium voices are harder to classify exactly and take longer to mature.

The most helpful thing for all singers is to increase breath flow as they are approaching a registration event. Knowing where your voice shifts, and how to manage the weight is one of the more important things when it comes vocal fach. If you don't know or pay attention to the above list, it doesn't really matter what your fach is, because it won't help you if you aren't paying attention to the right things. 

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