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Learning to sing and perfecting your voice can be a daunting task. Sometimes i feel like i cant handle it and i feel down without any will to continue, but the very next day all those clouded emotions go away and i get back on track. Sometimes the "dark" periods are longer and they get to me more.

 

To me, Love i feel for music and singing is what drives me forward and can turn the tides even in the darkest of days.

 

I was wondering what made you guys go on? How was it for you from day 1 until now. What did you do when having bad days or did you ever feel like that?

 

Even coaches. How do you vocal coaches handle the stress that come from the "industry" and constant nagging and shady bussiness moves that some teachers shamelessly use.

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Well, I lost my voice for 6 years prior to finding medication that could manage a condition so I could sing again. So I know what complete and utter hopelessness feels like about singing/speaking/eating. I know defeat: plain and simple.

 

There is a cliche about once you hit rock bottom that's when you are ready to come back up, but after that I got meds that managed the condition, being able to make sounds again that weren't impossibly painful was miraculous. I have a pretty positive attitude about my voice even though I'll likely never be able to be a professional, cause I know it can get much worse.

 

I think a lot of it is perspective. I sing surprisingly good to me considering my situation. I've honestly made more technique improvement after this problem, partly because I can't handle the same amount of brute force I could before, but also because each note is a miracle, in its own way, and I just make them as best as I can currently make them. There is no desperation or rush to try to force my voice into something it's not.

 

I just accept the current state for what it is and let the future states come. It's not complacency, because I still train and improve things. But there's no rush and it's like it goes faster. 

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Well, first of all, it helps to remember that we are all going to die. We are apes that live in tall concrete instead of trees but we are still shrieking and beating our chests and eating our young. And we are going to die. For the most part, I am closer to the pine box than either of you two. With any luck, I have another 20 to 30 years. Some of it with quickly fading use of my body and its faculties. See, that's the problem with getting "over the hill." Over the hill, you are now going downhill and picking up speed, too.

 

So, you might as well sing. Regardless if you believe in an afterlife or not, you only get this chance in this lifetime to sing. Might as well sing.

 

Death has a way of clarifying what is important. What if I could tell you that tomorrow, at exactly 12 pm noon, you are going to die. It will be painless and quick. Will you now sing with the worry of what others will think? Will you now sing with the hope that your voice will be mistaken for someone else that everyone is already familiar with?

 

"His tombstone read, "I sounded like that guy from Red Hot Chili Peppers.""

 

Don't be that guy.

 

As for having good days and bad days and finding that music brings you up or at least offers a centering place in the universe, welcome to the club. Good days will always outweigh the bad days. Are there bad things and crappy people in the world? Yes, all day, every day. I try to NOT be one of them, as best I can.

 

As for the perfected voice, I don't think any one of us feels that. I, for certain, and others too, I think, discover something new about our voices each time we sing, regardless of how long we have been singing.

 

Probably the hard part is to not beat yourself up while resolving to fix something on the next step. And teaching yourself patience.

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I was inspired by other artists as anyone is in the beginning. Today I am inspired to produce the best singing tracks I can before I die.

 

As a coach, the best way to beat the hassle of dealing with incompetence in the industry is to just rise above it and give people what they really need... but that sort of thing never changes, that is present in any occupation.

 

To Ron's point, one thing that drives me forward with my product development is I want to leave a legacy... something that will survive after I am dead. Something people will enjoy and learn from for years to come. Something to be remembered by.

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I like tv yet I could go without tv, I like piano yet I could go without piano, I like comedy yet I could go without comedy, singing I cant live without. I dont know what it is but something inside me makes me sing. I wasn't a very happy kid for the simple fact that I never sung because I was to afraid. My dad always told me that only certain people can sing and its something you're born with, and For a long time I believed him. I took up the piano, people thought I just liked to play the piano which was true, but the main reason was so I could play the songs I wanted to sing. I would play the songs and sing them in my head. for awhile this would ease my deep sadness I never told anyone about. I thought I was ok playing piano I even started trying to do it as a business making a semi successful youtube channel, but the singing bug kept growing and growing until I had to do something. I slowly started singing greenday and weezer songs when no one was home, I started playing the vocals on the video game rock band. I started singing even though every ounce of fear was telling me no.as I went on in my singing I proved my dad wrong about things such as range, power, pitch, vibrato and I wasent being coached and I didn't have any program I was just watching brett manning and ken tamplin videos on youtube. I later hit a wall and had to continue my training with some real techniques. Robert Lunte gave me a phone call and gave me a deal on TFPOS witch was like a rocket that shot to a nearly five octave range.

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I like tv yet I could go without tv, I like piano yet I could go without piano, I like comedy yet I could go without comedy, singing I cant live without. I dont know what it is but something inside me makes me sing. I wasn't a very happy kid for the simple fact that I never sung because I was to afraid. My dad always told me that only certain people can sing and its something you're born with, and For a long time I believed him. I took up the piano, people thought I just liked to play the piano which was true, but the main reason was so I could play the songs I wanted to sing. I would play the songs and sing them in my head. for awhile this would ease my deep sadness I never told anyone about. I thought I was ok playing piano I even started trying to do it as a business making a semi successful youtube channel, but the singing bug kept growing and growing until I had to do something. I slowly started singing greenday and weezer songs when no one was home, I started playing the vocals on the video game rock band. I started singing even though every ounce of fear was telling me no.as I went on in my singing I proved my dad wrong about things such as range, power, pitch, vibrato and I wasent being coached and I didn't have any program I was just watching brett manning and ken tamplin videos on youtube. I later hit a wall and had to continue my training with some real techniques. Robert Lunte gave me a phone call and gave me a deal on TFPOS witch was like a rocket that shot to a nearly five octave range.

    It seems odd that the people who really have the singing bug are the ones afraid to have someone here them sing......Others who are only enjoying the song do not care who hears them no matter what they sound like.

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Practice smart and you'll rarely get discouraged. All the times I've ever been discouraged or had a bad vocal day, I was just flat out being stupid. Beating a dead horse. Practicing without warming up properly and patiently, or practicing while heavily fatigued. Trying to make an exercise or song work that was way above my current skill level. Using improper technique. Not maintaining my health (sleep and hydration in particular are extremely important).

Of course in the beginning we tend to be very poor judges at whether we're practicing correctly or not but through training and experience you'll figure it out. Just remember when in doubt work smart, not hard. Pounding out failed attempt after failed attempt never fixes bad vocal days (in fact it is the DEFINITION of a bad vocal day, the DEFINITION of poor practicing), but stopping and rethinking, using your brain to solve problems, can really turn them around

 

The inspiration should always come from the love of great music, you are on the right track there

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Practice smart and you'll rarely get discouraged. All the times I've ever been discouraged or had a bad vocal day, I was just flat out being stupid. Beating a dead horse. Practicing without warming up properly and patiently, or practicing while heavily fatigued. Trying to make an exercise or song work that was way above my current skill level. Using improper technique. Not maintaining my health (sleep and hydration in particular are extremely important).

Of course in the beginning we tend to be very poor judges at whether we're practicing correctly or not but through training and experience you'll figure it out. Just remember when in doubt work smart, not hard. Pounding out failed attempt after failed attempt never fixes bad vocal days (in fact it is the DEFINITION of a bad vocal day, the DEFINITION of poor practicing), but stopping and rethinking, using your brain to solve problems, can really turn them around

 

The inspiration should always come from the love of great music, you are on the right track there

 

If I'm not having pain flare up I rarely have off days. Unless you're using your voice a whole lot, if you're having an off day, it's probably cause you're not warmed up or applying the same coordination or are psychologically stressed.

 

I agree as a beginner, you don't know the coordinations to go to and I used to feel like every day was different, now that I've habituated control, it's more about just going back to the same coordinations and refining them.

 

So given my current voice usage, it more or less just improves barring intrusion of other factors, but by the nature of it, the earlier you are into the process, the more you're likely to be hunting for coordinations every day and winding up in different places.

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If I'm not having pain flare up I rarely have off days. Unless you're using your voice a whole lot, if you're having an off day, it's probably cause you're not warmed up or applying the same coordination or are psychologically stressed.

 

I agree as a beginner, you don't know the coordinations to go to and I used to feel like every day was different, now that I've habituated control, it's more about just going back to the same coordinations and refining them.

 

So given my current voice usage, it more or less just improves barring intrusion of other factors, but by the nature of it, the earlier you are into the process, the more you're likely to be hunting for coordinations every day and winding up in different places.

 

 

I agree with both of you. In the beggining i used to practice despite the pain and soreness being obvious. I was kinda saying to myself "oh if it hurts it means im doing something new and my throat is getting adjusted to it". Boy was i wrong. Now if i feel even slight pain i stop or try to do exact same thing but without any pain involved. Needless to say i am gaining much more progress EVERY day just by following the "no strain" policy (which should have been obvious from the start -.-)

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I just think about how long I've wanted to have a reliable voice......because that's really what I'm looking for. I'm trying to make singing "another thing I know how to do". Y'know? I'm really confident in my guitar playing for instance.....there's always more that I could learn and I hope to always be a student in that sense but I don't wonder whether or not I'm going to play well when I pick up the guitar. I can depend on my ability.

   I want singing to be the same way. I want to take the mystery out of it....so it's not such a moving target. I figure....the more I sing the more it will be "normalized". The more I work on my ear training.....the more accurate I'll be able to be.

So I guess I'm just in acceptance at this point that the turtle wins the race, as they say.

   I also think about previous attempts I've made at training etc. I would take a lesson or two but not really understand the concepts and I wouldn't stick with the exercises. And then I'd find myself 6 months down the line no better off. And I would just think....if I had done the exercises daily and not worried about what my concept of progress might be and just let the process work......I would now be 6 months further down the road with the whole thing and probably a better singer as a result.

  I don't know if I articulated that well. Bottom line is....I believe slow and steady wins the race......certain concepts don't make sense until they all of a sudden do and I just need to put the time in to let the process be a process.

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I just think about how long I've wanted to have a reliable voice......because that's really what I'm looking for. I'm trying to make singing "another thing I know how to do". Y'know? I'm really confident in my guitar playing for instance.....there's always more that I could learn and I hope to always be a student in that sense but I don't wonder whether or not I'm going to play well when I pick up the guitar. I can depend on my ability.

   I want singing to be the same way. I want to take the mystery out of it....so it's not such a moving target. I figure....the more I sing the more it will be "normalized". The more I work on my ear training.....the more accurate I'll be able to be.

So I guess I'm just in acceptance at this point that the turtle wins the race, as they say.

   I also think about previous attempts I've made at training etc. I would take a lesson or two but not really understand the concepts and I wouldn't stick with the exercises. And then I'd find myself 6 months down the line no better off. And I would just think....if I had done the exercises daily and not worried about what my concept of progress might be and just let the process work......I would now be 6 months further down the road with the whole thing and probably a better singer as a result.

  I don't know if I articulated that well. Bottom line is....I believe slow and steady wins the race......certain concepts don't make sense until they all of a sudden do and I just need to put the time in to let the process be a process.

 

Yes, good post... 

 

 

 

   I also think about previous attempts I've made at training etc. I would take a lesson or two but not really understand the concepts and I wouldn't stick with the exercises. And then I'd find myself 6 months down the line no better off. And I would just think....if I had done the exercises daily and not worried about what my concept of progress might be and just let the process work......I would now be 6 months further down the road with the whole thing and probably a better singer as a result.

 

90% of the people that train vocal programs and work with students... don't practice. We have gone on and on and on and on.... in this forum for almost 7 long years... rehashing every detail, every method, every thing you could hope to learn about singing... and then some.... It all is noise and boils down to nothing... if those that wish to REALLY sing better fail to practice training techniques and sing songs on a regular basis. If you don't study the technique to improve your art, and then you don't practice the art itself, then what do you expect?

 

Why is it that its so clear to everyone that if you want to be a guitarist or drummer, you need to practice... but if you want to be a singer, some how, you might be able to get away with not having to practice and get better? 

 

Maestro Kyle, voice coach for me, Ken Tamplin, Layne Staley, Geoff Tate, Ann Wilson, Liza Minelli, Ronnie Monroe, Chris Cornell, Darius (New expert on our forum who recently joined us), and countless others... said;

 

"... the day you think your done, you're done".

 

Maestro David P. Kyle & Robert Lunte

Maestro_David_Kyle_BW-222x300.jpg

 

Do you get it? The day you think you don't have something to learn, or something to work on, hang up your spurs and go home... and for those that haven't even committed to getting started or are trying to get the "secret tip" from YouTube, I have to tell you... you're kidding yourself. If you are a beginner, and want to get answers to how the voice really works, and build a foundation of strength, vocal health and coordination... you have to train techniques and practice... and if you want then go forward and sing, you have to sing songs.

 

I like this little video I edited... because the sense of sarcasm and frustration you sense in my body language in this short piece regarding students not practicing, is actually sincere and real. This is not a put-on. I'm not acting... I edited this out of a 20 minute video I sent to my teachers. It wasn't even meant to be published... but this one little moment, spoke volumes and I thought people should see it... For those that do practice, you and I know who you are... there are some that do "get it", but its about 20%.

 

 

Every since I was 15 years old, I have had vocalize workouts to train with and I have been singing songs. I can't even imagine what having singing in my life would be like without some vocal workouts that I train regularly. A life as a singer, with no training content and practicing makes no sense to me? Guitarists work on their scales, dancers work on their moves, painters work on mixing paint colors and singers work on their singing voices. If you can't put at least 4 hours a week in the beginning, training some scales, doing some onsets and singing songs... then forget it, singing isn't for you.

 

Tough Love Coach with two big lattes... 

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LOL... I would say 17 or 18, probably a Sr. in High School.  We were Rock'n it back then broheims... !   ;)   Bruce was young too... this is what I was singing too about the time that pic was taken.

 

 

You looked really mature at that age. :o I still looked like a young teen at that age.  Sorry to derail the thread a bit but that's a cool picture.  

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It realy all started with a story for me.

 

I was walking down the street with a friend I made in college and he casually started singing a song. I think it was something by Musiq Soulchild. I think my exact words were, "Wow, I wish I could sing like that." And he told me that I could. I asked how, and he told me that he went to performing arts school for an instrument, but a friend of his was there for singing. He wanted to learn how to sing at that point, so his friend told him to do these exercises, and he started to see a lot of similaities between the vocal chords and physical instruments. After a while, he had a good voice. So, he suggested that I do the same thing. And we would talk about technique and everything every few days. I had no idea it was something you could practice. My mom has a fantastic voice, but she has been singing since she was a kid.

 

I decided the best thing for me to do was get a coach, since I was serious about it. I lucked out and happened to have an uncle who grew up singing gospel and was classically trained. It was great, because I mainly wanted to sing R&B. He gave me weekly lessons in that and piano. A few years later, and now that friend who inspired me to learn is saying I can do several things better than he can (I still don't quite believe that, but he hadn't said anything like that before).

 

As for staying motivated, I became extremely analytical. My music preferences changed drastically. I went from listening to everything to only the people who were able to do certain things that I wanted to do. I analyzed and I imitated the hell out of them. Learned technical terms behind what was being done so that I could explain to myself how they were doing what they were doing. I thought of this as something I was going to do rather than something I was hoping to be able to do, and so I made it a point to practice everyday.

 

 

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Embrace bad days and failure, rather than trying to avoid them.

 

Easier said than done, but you have to allow yourself to suck at times.

 

It's going to happen....let it happen.  

 

Don't you let the good days happen too?

 

Did you ever say I wish I could suck today because I'm singing so well?

 

I've had days where I'm on stage and I am having an embarrassing bad voice day....It happens....

 

Days where you know you could have sung that song better, but you're the only one thinking this.

 

Days where you know you nailed that song, but no one really cares.

 

But I've had days where the voice just does everything right too..days you just can't screw up if you tried..

 

These are the days you cannot forget!

 

Singing is all about managing changing variables.

 

And here's something to realize too...sometimes what you're training is going to impact your singing making it a little more difficult to perform.

 

You could be working on trying to build one coordination, let's say singing with a lighter adduction, but you still have to sing the songs you have to sing!

 

You may still need to belt you ass off singing a song like "Head games" at night while your days are spent doing adduction strength building exercises.

 

There's bound to be some conflict!

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We are apes

 

Good point. But is it even legal to have these opinions in Texas?  ;)

 

Regarding the OP - well, bad days... you first get this kick in the chest that leaves you with an empty feeling. Then you start working on what's wrong. You make it better then you notice that another foundation is shaky, kick in the chest... working again... finally, you get to a point where you're happy with what you've achieved... or not...

 

At some point... well, as Ron said - we all die.  :)

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At some point... well, as Ron said - we all die. :)

Indeed. To be significant among insignificant specs of dust on a glob of dust floating in a void filled with distances and proportions our lifetimes aren't long enough to even dimly comprehend... Is it that significant?

Sing if it makes you happy. If you have to look for inspiration, maybe you're just in love with the idea of being a superstar singer. If that idea is worth your time then feed it. If you just genuinely enjoy trying out what your body can and can't do you'll rarely be asking other people why they do what they do.

This applies to everything in life.

The minute you ask why is the time you need to sit down and evaluate how much you want to spend your prescious minutes on something, and whether or not something else could take its place.

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Indeed. To be significant among insignificant specs of dust on a glob of dust floating in a void filled with distances and proportions our lifetimes aren't long enough to even dimly comprehend... Is it that significant?

Sing if it makes you happy. If you have to look for inspiration, maybe you're just in love with the idea of being a superstar singer. If that idea is worth your time then feed it. If you just genuinely enjoy trying out what your body can and can't do you'll rarely be asking other people why they do what they do.

This applies to everything in life.

The minute you ask why is the time you need to sit down and evaluate how much you want to spend your prescious minutes on something, and whether or not something else could take its place.

reminds me of a lyric from Monty Python's "Life of Brian."

 

"Always look on the bright side of death.

Just before you draw your terminal breath."

 

While doing a can-can dance on a cross.

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