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  1. 2 points
    Hi Marvin, Why make a comment that makes sense and then put in a link that has nothing to do with singing? If you are a real person and want to improve your singing. Look into "The four Pillars of Singing" Taught by Robert Lunte. Binny90, I like the song. It has as much potential as any other song. Keep up the good work. If you do want to improve your singing, The main thing is to practice scales to get your voice used to changing pitches and recognize when you are singing off pitch. Sing a little louder with feeling.
  2. 2 points
    @Robert Lunte I believe you are already training and teaching this stuff. Tongue root tension usually creates the "knödel" or "kermit the frog" sound.
  3. 2 points
    @MDEW The aryepiglottic muscle seen in your picture can't really create the narrowing of the epilarynx simply because it's too weak and sometimes it's even absent.
  4. 2 points
    @Felipe Carvalho I just reviewed the video by Obert and the book by Fink. And you are right that what Fink talks about happens a bit lower. He calls it the "median thyrohyoid fold" (also mentioned in the paper MDEW posted). In the video it actually sounds very close to "knödel" when it's markedly - so it makes sense it's tongue root tension. So you have the tongue root tension and epilaryngeal narrowing or both at the same time. And if you do it extremely you'll probably end up doing a convincing Louis Armstrong or Christina Aguilera "growl".
  5. 2 points
    Hi Felipe, I can recommend you look into "Laryngeal Biomechanics" by B. Raymond Fink. He argues that the larynx works as a folding mechanism (he calls it "plication" - plica is latin for fold) and not a sphincter mechanism. Firstly because there are no sphincter muscles in the larynx and secondly that the closing (twang or narrowing) of the airways is a result of "bulging" or "folding" of the structures. This was published in 1979 and has gone a bit under the "radar". I mentioned this at an Estill course about 7 years ago and also on this forum. In regards to the discussion of the tongue groove. This is done by the genioglossus. And the effect is a fixation of the hyodbone which stabilizes it and therefore other intrinsic muscles can close of or narrow the airway. The isolated "bulging" of the root of the tongue seen in the presentation is most likely a "folding" of lymphatic (Lingual Tonsils) and adipose tissue just behind the tongue according to Fink. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingual_tonsils#/media/File:Slide7ttt.JPG
  6. 2 points
    There is an adjustment you have to make yeah, the vowels need to change a bit, space in the pharynx increases, back of the tongue lifts a bit and soft palate also lifts. I did this video a while ago to address exactly this issue: Forgive how red I look here On this position, the spectra will appear more uniform and H3/H4 will start to peak as you get more control over it and start to use more intensity. It's covering. But I would also say this. I believe that learning this is very useful but don't look at it as an "improvement of resonance", it's just a different approach. As I show in the end of the video you can use different strategies that are equally valid and may very well sound better depending on what you are singing.
  7. 2 points
    Dude at least try to make some sense. Some good quality trolling would be cool but this is just too boring...
  8. 1 point
    kickingtone

    AUDIATION: the ignored skill?

    AUDIATION "Audiation" is "visualization, but with sound." It is the process of imagining and feeling music only in your mind, without any external stimulus. Some people have clear crisp imagination of music, while other people can only manage vague, fuzzy sounds. And among those who have clear imagination, some can only imagine a single melody, while others can apprehend harmony and a mix of instruments. Ability to AUDIATE has an enormous impact on musicality, musical creativity, and the approach to singing, learning and discussing technique. People who AUDIATE well may take it for granted that everyone does it well, and those people for whom AUDIATION is dormant or weak may think that is the norm. The two types of people may find it difficult to agree on "best practice" in vocal training without knowing what is behind their disagreement. Simple example: Singer asks how he can learn to keep in step with the music. He says that he often ends up one or two beats off the beat. In reply, my recommendation assumed that he could audiate. I told him to pick a key percussion instrument and mimic it in gaps in the music. i.e SING then do taa-taa-ta-taaa SING ta-ta SING....etc. That way he will better feel and become familiar with how the vocals fit in. Then he can pick another instrument, etc. to get as deep an understanding as he wanted. The approach requires him to hear the other instruments in his head (alongside his own vocals) to be able to anticipate all of them on the fly. He is basically singing less than the music he is imagining, which takes care of the phrasing issue. (Conductors do this. They can pick any point, hear where any instrument is supposed to be, and correct it if it is not there. I also remember training with a Ghanaian drummer, who would shout out the part of another drum if it was off the beat, while he was drumming his own part. Such people clearly have very well-developed AUDIATION skills because they can feel and hear the music ahead of the real sound.) The other recommendation on the thread (which surprised me) was "get out a metronome and practise against that". Obviously, these are different approaches, and I have to confess I don't understand the metronome method. I don't know what the metronome is doing that the music is not doing in the first place. And, if the metronome does help in some way, how the method helps when you take the metronome away in a live situation. POINT IS: Once you are aware of the importance of AUDIATION, you can develop it by paying attention to it and practising. You can build clarity and depth into how you imagine sound, music, singing etc. This helps in all aspects of musicality, including musical composition.
  9. 1 point
    @Felipe Carvalho Yes, sounds right. And it's interesting if you feel a difference in the cricothyroid visor. It would be great to see an MRI study in regards to the "tilt". They also mention this in the study I cited earlier: "Another potentially important finding is that the laryngeal tilt mechanism is independent of pitch production and can be related to a variation of density or “weightiness” of a sung note. This is a line of inquiry that warrants further investigation, such as studies of women, across various pitches, and from methods such as MRI or EMG." https://www.jvoice.org/article/S0892-1997(18)30040-7/abstract
  10. 1 point
    Alright, I don't want to discuss the religious aspect of the title. The meaning intended is "don't mix apples with oranges". Since I started to search for information about singing technique a long, long time ago, and also later when I began participating on online singing communities, a constant problem and complaint is that it's just all too confusing. Too many terms with similar meaning, discussions that many blame on terminology and invention of new terms that try to fix the problem only to then become a part of the problem itself, and so on. However, at the same time, it's been also my experience in direct exchange with skilled singers, that the terminology ceases being a problem when both sides are competent enough and share at least a few similar skills (which is very often the case). Which indicates an underlying common organization. Problem is, this is often just intuitive/practical. So what could that be? Here are the things that seem to be present when talking about technique with different people from different backgrounds (trained singers from different methods): Perception - How something sounds like, what are the qualities you can identify on it by listening. Practice/Execution - How to do it, references and exercises that leads to a certain idea. Sensations - How it feels like to do something, a reference of sensation. Mechanics - What is actually going on, how and why these other things happen. And now I will try to clarify the problem by comparing classical covering with CVT curbing: Covering: Perception - middle to high intensity / cry Practice/Execution - Try doing a dopey voice/Change vowels to UH Sensations - Voice against the nose/Vibrations on the upper part of the head Mechanics - Back of the tongue elevates/Soft palate elevates/Keep considerable amount of twang/reinforcement of 3rd and 4th partials. Curbing: Perception - Held Back / middle intensity / cry Practice/Execution - Try to make stomach aching voice. Change vowels to UH and IH Sensations - Sensation of hold on the throat area. Mechanics - Keep closure levels "middle" / middle level of constriction on the epilarynx / more "equal" level on the spectra up to around 3KHz, And that's where confusion comes from. First because often technical definitions have a primary focus. CVT has strong focus on Perception, how things sound like. While classical technique focus a lot of execution and sensation. Other technical approaches are more about the mechanics. At the same time even if their focus is fixed in one or two key aspects, they all need to address each of these aspects at least to some degree, otherwise the search becomes blind. The result is that from CVT perspective, Covering is curbing, since the quality description seems really fit for it. But from classical perspective, Covering is not Curbing because the orientations to produce Curbing will not lead to the same mechanical principle and execution, and this matters quite a bit. Even if the quality is indeed similar, it's different enough to bring a different flavor when both are used on songs. A cry is present on covering but it's at the same time darker and more "floaty" sounding during phrasing than on curbing. Using covering to sing Soul for example is not very effective, it just does not fit in as well as curbing even if the quality is almost there. And using curbing on Power Metal gets extremely taxing when you go past a certain point in pitch. So when you are looking for information on technique, try to understand where what is being said about the said technique fits. This can really help avoiding confusion and keeping things organized, as well as will open up possibilities to conciliate apparently opposing views (which often leads to better understanding). It will also help you identifying problematic information sources that either ignore some of these key elements but refuse and even act with fear and spite towards one or another of these aspects. And of course remember, the very least anyone talking about technique should be able to do is to sing using it.
  11. 1 point
    @kickingtone my previous reply on intention: Already covers the aspect of "intended" application. To make it more clear. It does not matter if a given technique was developed by the bedouin with the intention of calling a camel in the middle of the desert, if it sounds appropriate and on par with material that is considered high quality on the style being performed, that's what will matter. Just a perception matter, intention is slave to the achieved result. And the same applies to cultural or social history, it is irrelevant unless it leads to practical insights. Example: If something was used as a "call", you can infer it was loud. The relevant information you can derive is that it was "loud". A sound sample is still much more effective when available. @MDEW I would say that if you want to bring the discussion to practical ideas: such as sensations and references of execution, then yeah not having the ability to execute what you are talking about makes your argument very frail. Which is not a surprise to anyone, it's just that people don't talk about it because it's more comfortable to pretend everyone is being taken seriously on all aspects, aka being "nice". However, mechanical aspects that can be verified with visual information and, to some degree, perceptual evaluation, are less dependent on the skill to execute something.
  12. 1 point
    Hello I think you actually can sing but if you are not really sure if you do everything right while singing you can check out some Youtube videos about singing
  13. 1 point
    I agree, but I am not defending the removal of visualization and sensations, I mean I see no problem on someone learning just by it. On the contrary, I am also saying that a good deal of the relevant stuff there is to learn on singing technique exists only in experiential knowledge and can not be transmited just by saying "now increase the space in your pharynx while keeping the interarytenoids engaged and preventing the TA from over contracting". And it´s exactly because I think that these tools are important that I believe it´s very important to see how, where and why they fail. Because it does and it even fails more often than people report it does. I am defending that one of the primary reasons they fail is because they are simply a tool to transmit experiential knowledge, not the knowledge itself. And so when you have something like classical teaching where almost all is done through visualization and sensation, having the tools without the master intervention is like buying a fancy pants chisel and expecting it to sculpt wood by itself. Or in simple terms, these are just tools, and as such they are as dumb as they can be useful. The quality of the intervention will depend on the person using them. For someone that is starting out picking this information alone... What will happen is what I am linking here.
  14. 1 point
    ... audio sample sort of reminded me of Morrissey... anyways, carry on Gents... smart posts.
  15. 1 point
    Robert Lunte

    New Innovative Online Singing Method

    Exactly... thanks MDEW. Two Things: If you want to market your new course on this forum, there is a way to do it that is compatible with the rules, prevents this from being a conflict of interest and protects you from appearing too salesy. Per MDEW's point... Please don't just come in here and throw up a billboard advertisement. You need to contribute and add value to the community. You have to earn the right to ask for a sale. Try again....
  16. 1 point
    MDEW

    New Innovative Online Singing Method

    Hey Carlo, How about joining the conversations instead of advertising for another singing program on a forum started by someone who HAS a singing program? Join the forum and contribute by sharing YOUR knowledge or opinions on the forum. Interact with people.
  17. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    The entire apparatus used for singing was designed for self preservation and self protection. We use all of the muscles automatically for different purposes, such as breathing, eating, swallowing, yawning, vomiting, coughing, sneezing, crying, grunting while lifting objects, holding the breath under water, gasping for air... Speech and Singing came about After humans learned how to control autonomic responses involving the vocal tract to shape the resulting sounds, or by mapping the sounds produced when the response was taking place. Things like "covering" and "Flipping into falsetto" are themselves protective actions of the bio-mechanism of the larynx and voice box. We learn how to manipulate these actions for our purposes. Sometimes undo tensions are introduced because we try to trigger a response with un needed breath pressure or tension in the wrong muscles believing they are inter connected and needed to produce a desired sound. We have learned that many of the Triggered responses can be under our control Without the stimulus that triggered them.
  18. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    You probably already use it as part of your '"larynx Dampening" and keeping the "Buzz" or Vibration at the lips. The important thing is that now you can be aware of it. Once you gain awareness of something it get easier to recognize when it is happening and you can then use it on purpose. The use of the tongue root idea will make the voice brighter and add higher harmonics. From what I have tried with it, it also helped to keep the vocal folds together around the passaggio area. But, I have not been able to experiment much. It may also have an effect on other muscles that are attached to the vocal tract.
  19. 1 point
    Well that's the thing, when people were studying the mechanics of swallowing they looked for these muscles on people. Most people don't have them, and in those that do have them, they are atrophied (not used). And this is part of the swallowing mechanics, we do it all the time to eat, so it is also not something that only a few mutants do :P
  20. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    Look at the middle of the picture. The "X" muscle I mentioned is the Muscles that CREATE an X pattern. the Aryepiglottic muscles. Not "X" muscle as in random muscles. So when these muscles CONTRACT they pull on the epiglottis. Correct? The idea about Folding is in the PDF. That has nothing to do with the picture here. I am asking the question of Why it would be the folding that causes the eppiglottis to move and NOT the muscles I mentioned. Perhaps it is both.
  21. 1 point
    kickingtone

    Been practising for years

    Why is this in the Vocal Health forum? Do you think you have a vocal health issue? If so, what do you suspect it could be? What makes you think that you have not improved over seven years? Do you have a sample clip of you singing? You can put it on a streaming service like SoundCloud. (Vocaroo is another. It distorts the sound more, but you don't have to register). Then post the link here. What kind of singing/genre are you aiming for? Classical, pop, rock, metal, rnb, non-Western...?
  22. 1 point
    Hummm I don´t know, it seems to me that if it was just this, the coordination at 42:00 minutes would look different than that, and she says the singer was just playing with the idea, which she just acquired. For that to happen in that specific manner it would require that the thyroid was strapped, and that as the thyrohyoid space closed the tongue compensated the movements so that it´s shape was more or less the same as the hyoid approached the thyroid. It would take quite some training to reach a point where it seems to be perfectly stable on visual feedback no? And the folding would require up and down approximation on that area, that does not seem to be happening, that bulging seems to happen without the upward displacement of the larynx, and it also seems to be happening higher, above the hyoid bone. Narrowing the thyrohyoid space is also something I experimented before, it really feels bellow the *other thing* that I am experimenting with. Testing here and monitoring with my fingers I can feel that the other one can happen even with the thyrohyoid space open (and the larynx lowered). Seems to be happening on the position I marked in green, instead of the position I marked in pink (in the real time MRI on the video).
  23. 1 point
    Hi, wow, a response from Robert Lunte himself. Thanks I would say this introductory/basic (but comprehensive course) that I'm looking for will teach you, say about scales and intervals, the basic practice routines - how to sing with scales and what scales, etc. A little bit of breathing technique, warm up, etc would naturally accompany that lesson. But it would not be about breathing technique or whole workshop about how baritones can sign high and so on. If I can use guitar learning as analogy, and I feel this will make the point across - there are whole courses that teach you how to hybrid pick, how to play string skipping arpeggios, or course on blues shuffle and 12 bar blues. These would be the segmented technique lessons. But a basic training course would be one that teaches you the basics of reading, the basic chords, scales (major, pentatonic, and so on), intro to finger picking, basic jazz rhythm, advanced chords, two chords, soloing from scales...I think you get the idea. The course will not necessarily concern itself whether you can play the scales fast enough to be a pro or a live player. Naturally, the basic elements are there, which you can utilize to reach there. I hope this makes sense. Thanks very much for responding. Again, like I said above, your course seemed great to me (I looked at this one - BECOME A GREAT SINGER: Your Complete Vocal Training System). It's comprehensive, very well organized and detailed. I guess, I am looking for more emphasis on music (theory etc) and not so much on technique, which is surely very important but for my purposes it's not the focus.
  24. 1 point
    "Music theory in parallel" sounds right and "just necessary to use with singing" seems the perfect amount. "Knowing how to use your voice to produce........" - this is I would think is most courses focus on, and obviously there's nothing wrong and everything right about that. I would say this introductory/basic (but comprehensive course) should teach you, say about scales and intervals, the basic practice routines - how to sing with scales and what scales, etc. A little bit of breathing technique, warm up, etc would naturally accompany that lesson. But it would not be about breathing technique or whole workshop about how baritones can sign high and so on. If I can use guitar learning as analogy, and I feel this will make the point across - there are whole courses that teach you how to hybrid pick, how to play string skipping arpeggios, or course of blues shuffle and 12 bar blues. These would be the segmented technique lessons. But a basic training course would be one that teaches you the basics of reading, the basic chords, scales (major, pentatonic, and so on), intro to finger picking, basic jazz rhythm, advanced chords, two chords, soloing from scales...I think you get the idea. The course will not necessarily concern itself whether you can play the scales fast enough to be a pro or a live player. Naturally the basic elements are there, which you can utilize to reach there. I hope this makes sense.
  25. 1 point
    Sup Martin it´s been a while! Thank you for the indication, I will try to grab a copy from ebay (do you know his other book on laryngeal function? Is it good?). About this coordination this is rather interesting, I am curious how this folding happens, does he clarify what motions result in this folding? What is your opinion on twang happening due to this particular bulging? Sorry it will take a while until I can put my hands on the book.
  26. 1 point
    When I looked at Pavarotti's voice on a spectrogram, it almost always have the strongest peak at H3 (third fundamental), sometimes even from as low as a C4, so it's not only on notes at or past his passaggio. I then did the same analysis for a few other well-known tenors and most of their voices also exhibit this behavior. When I looked at my voice I noticed that H3 is the strongest at lower notes, but once I hit B3 H2 starts to dominate H3, the higher I go the weaker H3 becomes. Granted I am a baritone but I can't seem to carry the stronger H3 through my passaggio, so I wonder if there is any physiological adjustment in my vocal tract I can do to make H3 stronger? I want to improve my resonance from this perspective. Thanks!
  27. 1 point
    Great video Felipe. You are correct. Singing and the process of learning to sing requires that the body learn an entirely new set of articulations and phonetics. There are speech articulations and phonetics , per each language... and then there are articulations and phonetics for another language called “singing”. this sis a powerful realization for singers to realize. Also, think of frequency as a constant. The higher you go, the more exotic the vowels need to be and become. The lower you go, the less exotic and the vowels need to be. Although even the low vowels are still not speaking vowels. here is a video I did that answers the question, “why do we not hear accents when people sing”. This is a bit off topic, but the answer to this interesting question includes the similar observations expressed above. i hope this doesn’t seem too far off topic, but it sort of hits on the same ideas. In particular, NOTE the point about “homogenization of the singing vowels”. Enjoy...
  28. 1 point
    Not only the level of compression but the type of compression also. Breath compression, cord compression and "false fold compression. Not to mention placement, And laryngeal position. The tone is more to the whistle or tube resonance for the classical counter tenor and more towards a cord vibration "Buzz" for the contemporary(of course this does depend on the artist and genre.
  29. 1 point
    Hi Rob, depends on the kinds of light singing, but say we are talking about Journey. A main difference would be level of adduction, counter-tenors sing with full closure on M2 but at comparatively lower levels of compression than you would use for Journey. Also the transition to M2 happens lower in range. Even so, the practical strategy is not that different, it´s the compression level that dictates the transition points in both cases.
  30. 1 point
    Robert, my gut reaction is "what's the similarity"? Do you have a specific contemporary artist we could use for comparison? With this singer I am hearing classical mask, as oppose to contemporary pharyngeal resonance. I can hear open throat, and I can hear a lighter coordination (as distinct from lighter mass, which I cannot tell). If you look at his belly, you may see him leaning in. Looks and sounds like appoggio, if it is not my imagination. (Also, rounder embouchure -- less of the "smile").
  31. 1 point
    RNBJR

    Pitch Apps

    Are there any other apps like Perfect Pitch? I am a beginner with singing. This app has different songs you can practice pitch with. I just wish it had more songs on there. There are only a few selections. I am doing some vocal training. At this point, I can reach a note of C5 without a whole lot of strain, and as high as F5 with some push. I just need more work on my pitch. I am not as good at recognizing pitch as I need to be.
  32. 1 point
    Felipe Carvalho

    Pitch Apps

    A good way you can work on it is to practice diatonic scales in this manner, say you are doing Cmaj: On the instrument of your choice play the Cmaj (chord) then 12345 (C, D , E, F ,G), singing along to it. Then just the chord, Cmaj, but now sustain the chord as you sing the 12345. Then just the root note, sing 12345. Then just sing 12345. Then you can try the same using either the maj3rd or the 5th as the reference. Record and listen if you are being accurate. Or then do the whole scale. Often after you work a bit on major scales, the rest of the modes follow. Perhaps working on harmonic minor scale is a good idea too. Other prime scales, in my opinion, only if you are planning on composing and want to do some weird sounding stuff. Interval training can be very useful if you intend on harmonizing. In special learning major and minor 3rd, 4th and 5th is rather useful. You can do this by forcing yourself to *recall* the sound. Play the interval jump, remember it in your own mind both with the sound of the instrument as well as if you were singing (imagine it). Look at another interval or distract yourself, try to recall it, check to see if you did it right, probably fail, do it again from the start. And contrary to coordination training, when constructing aural memory, the more you fail at it (while doing a genuine attempt of course), the better. On all of these, keep it playful, keep it loose. If you fail just take another listen, don't try to measure things too much or constrain your practice in order to have just good repetitions.
  33. 1 point
    RNBJR

    Pitch Apps

    Thanks for the feedback! Very interesting info!
  34. 1 point
    kickingtone

    Pitch Apps

    Come to think of it... I see a lot of people practise "scales" then pick complicated songs to "cover". They seem to have no steps in between. Talk about making things difficult for yourself. I do a fair amount of practice a cappella, with really simple songs. Sometimes they are almost like nursery rhymes! That takes the focus away from the emotional vibe of the song and gets you focusing on basics, like pitch. For me, learning an exact interval between two notes is useless memory work. What is that teaching me that a very simple song cannot teach me? With a simple song, I am sighting and holding a WHOLE phrase at a time in my head. That is a whole set of MEANINGFUL cues available -- not only the last note -- when I sing each note. You may relate each note that you are singing to ALL proximate notes and their sound as a whole. That is a more natural and practical way to sight a note. I find it easier to sing back four or five notes, than two. The more context there is, the more cues I have, and the more accurate I am. I find it robotic, and frankly futile to try to build everything up as intervals between pairs of notes. I seriously doubt that it is possible or that such practice achieves pitch accuracy. It will be able to teach you the boundaries of your registers, which will make you less error prone, but otherwise I think that it is a poor learning technique. It reminds me of those really bad foreign language lessons where you learn words out of context by memorizing lists, instead of immersing yourself in an environment that requires the words.
  35. 1 point
    If you are asking how to approach that quality, it would be belting, or open chest voice or however you want to call it. You can get something similar by pretending you are a drunk dude using a very annoying obnoxious voice. As to why he is having issues... That's something for him and his voice teacher to figure out, or if he ever joins the forum and asks then I can go in more detail. But it's got really little to do with being "baritone".
  36. 1 point
    I found this cool video that shows two of the consonants Ive been using: Curiously I use similar sounds to the cold drink AHH for focus and projection training. Its just not carried so far.
  37. 1 point
    Hello! Good song choice, two weakest links right now would be intonation (seem not very secure of how the melody should go), and lacking legato (your voice needs to be more uniform). Don't stress much about keeping an open throat or other technical elements, just remember to take a good breath before starting the phrases and use the release of the air to sing. Work first on listening the original, and trying to mentally recall the whole song and lyrics. Distract yourself, go back to it, fail, listen again. This will create a good memory of the song so that you don't need to worry about "whats next". While doing so you can practice the melody using humming or lip bubbles. Keep it full and strong, think that the phrases of the song are all a continuous note. The sound you start the phrase with gets, let's say, stretched til the end. Makes sense? Think you are a monk and you are making the melody with a mantra sound. Right after that, try singing and keeping the sound going, connect every word on the phrase. If you listen to Elton John, often he sacrifices clarity of articulation to get it, you don't need to go that far, but it's nice to pay attention. On the same subject, pay attention to the vowels and sustain them more, we sing on vowels, you want to spend most of your time singing sustaining them. Also listen to EJ more carefully and hear which vowels he is sustaining more. I saw other comments about placement and I strongly advice against this kind of technical work before you solve the more fundamental aspects, it will just confuse you. It should be well within your comfortable voice and you don't really need something like head voice to make it work. Keep it simple, make it sound good :). And of course, sing everyday and record yourself, you will get things going much faster.
  38. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    There are a lot of teachers out there who use the idea of "Twang" to train cord closure and managing the "Passaggio". Until now the idea of twang was described as a movement of the epiglottis. From the video we have found that it is not the movement of the epiglottis that is responsible for the sound. The vowel AH moves the epiglottis in the manor previously described as the source of the sound but the Ah vowel by itself does not have the sound. I bring this up because there are some teachers who insist that they are not using twang but they promote a "Bright AH" vowel to train the passaggio. The "Bright AH" is made by the same movement of the tongue root in the video. The ideas used to "Find" the twang are "Witches cackle", a "Bratty voice" or a "Whiney" voice or "Cry like a baby". I believe that these sounds involve the two distinct positions in the video. Some use the tongue root and some use the narrowed pharynx that cuts off the piriform sinuses and some are a combination of both. We still do not know what else within the larynx is being effected by these positions(TA, CT, arytenoids, etc.) but we have no conscious control over them anyway. Those who have trained their voice to "Mix", "Cover" or "Turn" through the Passaggio have found a coordination that works for them. When passaggio is reached the trained singer rearranges the vocal tract or adds the needed breath pressure automatically. In other words the trained singer reacts in the way he was trained. One of the reasons that someone like Michael Trindle can believe that he is NOT using any modification or other movement while demonstrating his technique and the sound is to some obviously Modified or darkened, He automatically darkens the voice when reaching the passaggio. It feels to him like he is doing nothing because it is now a natural response to him. Having an idea that a movement of the "Tongue root" can produce this "Twang" or "Squillo" or one of these sounds which aids in the "Passaggio" gives another way to approach the "Passaggio" and train it. The tongue is a muscle that you can consciously control and does not rely on other muscles. It does not need breath pressure to coordinate or a "sound" that you need to achieve to move it. Along with this, the Constrictor muscles of the larynx are also muscles you can consciously control without interference from other muscles. People were trying to train the Passaggio by Achieving a certain sound that DOES involve other muscles that effect the sound in ways that are undesirable in a finished voice and not knowing which action was causing the results. Another way that they were trying to get the same effect was by "Breath Pressure" and the Bernoulli effect, Having the vocal passage "Narrow" on its own in response to "Appoggio" or support from the Breath and a "Relaxed" throat. Still, achieving this was brought about by an expected sound and an unconscious movement. Not a conscious reconfiguration of the vocal tract. Whatever else is happening with the Tongue root that "HELPS" achieve singing in this "passaggio" area I do not know. But from Experiments (From a guy who has been having trouble with a decent sound in the passaggio) I can tell you that this Tongue root action does help and it is controllable by a conscious movement. If you have read through all of that.... Try the tongue root idea with a Soft but full tone from D4 to A4 . and see if the mix comes in with a full sound without having to get louder or having to cover or over darken the tone. I still have not had time to fully test this, but I have tried a few songs that I was having trouble with and when I started to hit a wall I added more tongue root and was able to stabilize the note and reach a mix. The tongue root seems to be independent from the "Narrowing" of the pharynx and the position of the Larynx. Although it does seem that a lower larynx makes the tongue root a little easier to control.
  39. 1 point
    I was basing it on the tongue root idea. On the passaggios I dont feel it changes much, but it kinda hides it better I would say. like: https://app.box.com/s/9kg2vf1psqslwwql26ibr5gbngsibvkd First one trying to keep a bit of it, second one more loose. I think it is more economic because it sounds closer to what I would use on a song so yeah. I agree the two middle examples are more consistent.
  40. 1 point
    Robert Lunte

  41. 1 point
    I totally agree... if your going to be a troll, at least give us something... let's see what you got? Start with making posts that people can read... Bring it...
  42. 1 point
    Kinda cool that you think so actually :D, thank you!
  43. 1 point
    Swedishguy29

    Do i sing bad or good?

    Hello Do I have a good or a bad voice? Because right now i am a singer in a rock/metal band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BW8TvFZTVI
  44. 1 point
    Alright, so here is my testing with the idea: https://app.box.com/s/hya3ds8wkjh4jckfe5be7n508q3tojfl Sorry for the delay, my voice was crappy this past week (sick) and I had to train the idea properly first, I did what I proposed before, using the Arabian consonants to get a hang of the coordination. To me it feels like the larynx is pushing up while the back of the tongue is pushing down, not in a uncomfortable manner, more like the feeling of articulating a K with the back of the tongue and the soft palate (it constricts but it can be done gently without forcing). The sample is supposed to be different levels of the constriction as far as I am able to control, say 100%, 70, 30, 0. I think you can hear the difference in... twangyness? I personally think the 2nd and 3rd samples are within what I would consider useful for my voice and my tastes, and the other two more of an effect. Also I did what I needed to do to avoid distortion, You can hear that the most constricted one is all open, I think its my best Labrie impersonation so far lol, and the less constricted one is super dopey and silly. Now, its not that the sounds are particularly new to me, I could do all of these well with the exception of the Labrie one, but most importantly I feel its a very useful position leading to sound situation. I dont think you are off track, its just that these two ways to look at the problem are not mutually exclusive. I think you can learn to control better one specific aspect of the coordination, and I think everything so far suggests that you dont get a given result due to just one adjustment. For example on my first sample here I am pretty sure the pharynx is constricted compared to the other ones because of the vowels I am producing, and I am also pretty sure the closure levels on the vocal folds are highest on the 1st and lowest on the 4th. The 2nd sample is probably the most dynamic in all these aspects (stuff changing more), because its my normal/best game. The samples are compensated for loudness so that its easier to compare the quality.
  45. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    People think of Pitch as a vocal fold configuration. A combination of Thickness of the vocal folds,How tight they are together, the length of the cords and perhaps how fast the air is flowing through them. As I mentioned before the voice has many different aspects that coincide with different instruments. Wind, reed, string etc. For example: A steam Whistle...Fixed tube and opening. Air pressure changes the pitch. As the steam pressure rises the pitch goes from low to high. How about those who make sounds with jugs of water: you blow across the top of the opening and the size of the chamber determines pitch. Adding and removing water changes the pitch. How hard you blow does not make a difference....just the SIZE of the tube, or space within the jug. A similar thing with Horns. How about a slide trombone? It is not the amount of air pressure but the length of tube that changes the pitch. And then of course you have the string aspect of changing the size of the thing that is vibrating, the vocal folds. The voice uses all of these. In vocal pedagogy normally ONLY the length or thickness of the vocal folds is taken into account, TA and CT involvement and HOW the vibration may be different. The other aspects are not taken into account when PITCH is discussed. I could be wrong but the term "Registers" for the voice came from the Pipe organ. I believe, in the pipe organ, one set of "Registers" consist of a certain number of Pipes of the same diameter but the length is different.This gives one set of pitches. once you get to a certain pitch the next "Register" is made of another set of pipes with the Same diameter to each other but different from the other "Register" with differing lengths for that group of pitches. What I do not know about the pipe organ is if Each "Register" has it own sound source or if the same source is channeled to each register.
  46. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    Exactly, I know that it is not the best way to "Sing" but having a mechanical description of a configuration will get you in the "Ball park" so to speak. A general area. There are sounds that I have never made before so when someone just says "Make this sound" and go from there...I am lost and have been lost. One is the "SOUND" of covering in the sense of Classical singing. The SOUND is a result of a configuration, not a cause. I have gotten closer because of some of your own videos, but that was because you used "Sounds" that I was familiar with and put them together. Like the Dopey Yawn sound and adding the "Sound" of twang to bring that dopey sound forward. Just experimenting a few minutes ago I could sing between E4 and G4 by just(it seemed to me) narrowing on purpose as described in this video. Did other things happen too? Probably. But I would lock up before without using a lot of effort. The only effort was Constricting(Lightly) above the larynx. Perhaps other things inside the larynx were able to do there thing easier because of the change in the pharynx.
  47. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    What are your thoughts on the video? I have given all kinds of thoughts. Right or wrong they are only what was brought to my mind and a starting point for discussion. They do not need to be correct. Is it better or more beneficial to not use narrowing by consciously manipulating the pharynx or tongue root, or by trying to find these coordinations by Breath pressure, sound ideals and "Free" "Relaxed" throat?
  48. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    Another few thoughts if there is anyone out there reading......I had a chance to try these ideas "the middle constrictor muscle" as the catalyst for twang and the Root of the Tongue for Squillo or just a means of getting better vocal fold closure...... Getting permission to USE the throat and its constrictors is almost like a birthday present to someone who keeps hearing "nothing in the throat" or "Open Throat". Also being ALLOWED to use the tongue muscles is in itself a breakthrough of sorts. I mentioned being able to sing in the upper range using "Other Voices" well, that pretty much gave me permission to use these ideas. To make your voice sound like someone else you use all kinds of distortions of your own vocal posture that in SINGING it is not allowed. Trying to sing in that range "Without distorting" the vocal tract or 'Manipulation" of any kind was the problem. So Felipe, Have you tried your song again while Purposely narrowing the pharynx for Twang or using the tongue root for brightness of tone? I have to say that both of these ideas had me singing D4 through A4 without sounding overly silly as usual.
  49. 1 point
    MDEW

    Review of Twang and Squillo Research

    A few more thoughts on the video. The Hyoglossus muscle (That she supposes in the video is the tongue root) attaches to the hyoid bone. From what I understand about muscles, this means that the hyoglossus could only bring the Hyoid and tongue closer together. So, Tongue root is NOT the hyoglossus. This still does not mean that the Fauchtinger idea has nothing to do with squillo or the ability to close the epiglottis. The Tongue root is more likely an intrinsic muscle of the tongue. These musles are attached to each other and their action is what allows the tongue to change its shape so easily. Another thing to take note of. When first mentioning TWANG, she mentions the Palatopharyngeus muscles and the Uvular area of the throat. She also mentions that they are drawn together and too high in the throat for the Scope to see. Then she never mentions it again but shows the narrowed Pharynx and closed piriform sinuses. It would have been a small matter to place a camera at the opening of the mouth to see if the Palatopharyngeus were indeed drawn together in this configuration.
  50. 1 point
    MDEW

    Do i sing bad or good?

    Sounds pretty good Swedishguy. Was there something specific that you think you were having trouble with?