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Robert Lunte

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  1. Like
    Robert Lunte got a reaction from kickingtone in Organizing Information on Singing Technique - Unto Caesar what is Caesar's   
    ... audio sample sort of reminded me of Morrissey... anyways, carry on Gents... smart posts.
  2. Like
    Robert Lunte got a reaction from MDEW in New Innovative Online Singing Method   
    Exactly... thanks MDEW.
     
    Two Things:
     
    If you want to market your new course on this forum, there is a way to do it that is compatible with the rules, prevents this from being a conflict of interest and protects you from appearing too salesy.  
    Per MDEW's point... Please don't just come in here and throw up a billboard advertisement. You need to contribute and add value to the community. You have to earn the right to ask for a sale.  
    Try again.... 
  3. Thanks
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in New Innovative Online Singing Method   
    Hey Carlo, How about joining the conversations instead of advertising for another singing program on a forum started by someone who HAS a singing program? 
    Join the forum and contribute by sharing YOUR knowledge or opinions on the forum. Interact with people.
  4. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to kickingtone in AUDIATION: the ignored skill?   
    AUDIATION
    "Audiation" is "visualization, but with sound."
    It is the process of imagining and feeling music only in your mind, without any external stimulus.
    Some people have clear crisp imagination of music, while other people can only manage vague, fuzzy sounds.
    And among those who have clear imagination, some can only imagine a single melody, while others can apprehend harmony and a mix of instruments.
    Ability to AUDIATE has an enormous impact on musicality, musical creativity, and the approach to singing, learning and discussing technique.
    People who AUDIATE well may take it for granted that everyone does it well, and those people for whom AUDIATION is dormant or weak may think that is the norm. The two types of people may find it difficult to agree on "best practice" in vocal training without knowing what is behind their disagreement.
    Simple example:
    Singer asks how he can learn to keep in step with the music. He says that he often ends up one or two beats off the beat.
    In reply, my recommendation assumed that he could audiate. I told him to pick a key percussion instrument and mimic it in gaps in the music. i.e SING then do taa-taa-ta-taaa SING ta-ta SING....etc. That way he will better feel and become familiar with how the vocals fit in. Then he can pick another instrument, etc. to get as deep an understanding as he wanted. The approach requires him to hear the other instruments in his head (alongside his own vocals) to be able to anticipate all of them on the fly. He is basically singing less than the music he is imagining, which takes care of the phrasing issue.
    (Conductors do this. They can pick any point, hear where any instrument is supposed to be, and correct it if it is not there. I also remember training with a Ghanaian drummer, who would shout out the part of another drum if it was off the beat, while he was drumming his own part. Such people clearly have very well-developed AUDIATION skills because they can feel and hear the music ahead of the real sound.)
    The other recommendation on the thread (which surprised me) was "get out a metronome and practise against that".
    Obviously, these are different approaches, and I have to confess I don't understand the metronome method. I don't know what the metronome is doing that the music is not doing in the first place. And, if the metronome does help in some way, how the method helps when you take the metronome away in a live situation.
    POINT IS:
    Once you are aware of the importance of AUDIATION, you can develop it by paying attention to it and practising. You can build clarity and depth into how you imagine sound, music, singing etc. This helps in all aspects of musicality, including musical composition.
     
  5. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    The entire apparatus used for singing was designed for self preservation and self protection. We use all of the muscles automatically for different purposes, such as breathing, eating, swallowing, yawning, vomiting, coughing, sneezing, crying, grunting while lifting objects, holding the breath under water, gasping for air...  Speech and Singing came about After humans learned how to control autonomic responses involving the vocal tract to shape the resulting sounds, or by mapping the sounds produced when the response was taking place.
        Things like "covering" and "Flipping into falsetto" are themselves protective actions of the bio-mechanism of the larynx and voice box. We learn how to manipulate these actions for our purposes. Sometimes undo tensions are introduced because we try to trigger a response with un needed breath pressure or tension in the wrong muscles believing they are inter connected and needed to produce a desired sound. We have learned that many of the Triggered responses can be under our control Without the stimulus that triggered them. 
          
  6. Thanks
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    You probably already use it as part of your '"larynx Dampening" and keeping the "Buzz" or Vibration at the lips. 
    The important thing  is that now you can be aware of it. Once you gain awareness of something it get easier to recognize when it is happening and you can then use it on purpose. 
    The use of the tongue root idea will make the voice brighter and add higher harmonics. From what I have tried with it, it also helped to keep the vocal folds together around the passaggio area. But, I have not been able to experiment much. It may also have an effect on other muscles that are attached to the vocal tract.
  7. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to kickingtone in Been practising for years   
    Why is this in the Vocal Health forum?
    Do you think you have a vocal health issue? If so, what do you suspect it could be?
    What makes you think that you have not improved over seven years?
    Do you have a sample clip of you singing? You can put it on a streaming service like SoundCloud. (Vocaroo is another. It distorts the sound more, but you don't have to register). Then post the link here.
    What kind of singing/genre are you aiming for? Classical, pop, rock, metal, rnb, non-Western...?
  8. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to Felipe Carvalho in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Hummm I don´t know, it seems to me that if it was just this, the coordination at 42:00 minutes would look different than that, and she says the singer was just playing with the idea, which she just acquired.
    For that to happen in that specific manner it would require that the thyroid was strapped, and that as the thyrohyoid space closed the tongue compensated the movements so that it´s shape was more or less the same as the hyoid approached the thyroid. It would take quite some training to reach a point where it seems to be perfectly stable on visual feedback no?
    And the folding would require up and down approximation on that area, that does not seem to be happening, that bulging seems to happen without the upward displacement of the larynx, and it also seems to be happening higher, above the hyoid bone.
    Narrowing the thyrohyoid space is also something I experimented before, it really feels bellow the *other thing* that I am experimenting with. Testing here and monitoring with my fingers I can feel that the other one can happen even with the thyrohyoid space open (and the larynx lowered).

    Seems to be happening on the position I marked in green, instead of the position I marked in pink (in the real time MRI on the video).
  9. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to Felipe Carvalho in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Sup Martin it´s been a while!
    Thank you for the indication, I will try to grab a copy from ebay (do you know his other book on laryngeal function? Is it good?).
    About this  coordination this is rather interesting, I am curious how this folding happens, does he clarify what motions result in this folding? What is your opinion on twang happening due to this particular bulging? Sorry it will take a while until I can put my hands on the book.
  10. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    There are a lot of teachers out there who use the idea of "Twang" to train cord closure and managing the "Passaggio".  Until now the idea of twang was described as a movement of the epiglottis. From the video we have found that it is not the movement of the epiglottis that is responsible for the sound. The vowel AH moves the epiglottis in the manor previously described as the source of the sound but the Ah vowel by itself does not have the sound.  I bring this up because there are some teachers who insist that they are not using twang but they promote a "Bright AH" vowel to train the passaggio. The "Bright AH" is made by the same movement of the tongue root in the video.
        The ideas used to "Find" the twang are "Witches cackle", a "Bratty voice" or a "Whiney" voice or "Cry like a baby". I believe that these sounds involve the two distinct positions in the video. Some use the tongue root and some use the narrowed pharynx that cuts off the piriform sinuses and some are a combination of both. We still do not know what else within the larynx is being effected by these positions(TA, CT, arytenoids, etc.)  but we have no conscious control over them anyway.
         Those who have trained their voice to "Mix", "Cover" or "Turn" through the Passaggio have found a coordination that works for them. When passaggio is reached the trained singer rearranges the vocal tract or adds the needed breath pressure automatically. In other words the trained singer reacts in the way he was trained. One of the reasons that someone like Michael Trindle can believe that he is NOT using any modification or other movement while demonstrating his technique and the sound is to some obviously Modified or darkened, He automatically darkens the voice when reaching the passaggio. It feels to him like he is doing nothing because it is now a natural response to him.
         Having an idea that a movement of the "Tongue root" can produce this "Twang" or "Squillo" or one of these sounds which aids in the "Passaggio" gives another way to approach the "Passaggio" and train it. The tongue is a muscle that you can consciously control and does not rely on other muscles. It does not need breath pressure to coordinate or a "sound" that you need to achieve to move it. Along with this, the Constrictor muscles of the larynx are also muscles you can consciously control without interference from other muscles.
         People were trying to train the Passaggio by Achieving a certain sound that DOES involve other muscles that effect the sound in ways that are undesirable in a finished voice and not knowing which action was causing the results. Another way that they were trying to get the same effect was by "Breath Pressure" and the Bernoulli effect, Having the vocal passage "Narrow" on its own in response to "Appoggio" or support from the Breath and a "Relaxed" throat. Still, achieving this was brought about by an expected sound and an unconscious movement. Not a conscious reconfiguration of the vocal tract.
         Whatever else is happening with the Tongue root that "HELPS" achieve singing in this "passaggio" area I do not know. But from Experiments (From a guy who has been having trouble with a decent sound in the passaggio) I can tell you that this Tongue root action does help and it is controllable by a conscious movement.
         
          If you have read through all of that.... Try the tongue root idea with a Soft but full tone from D4 to A4 . and see if the mix comes in with a full sound without having to get louder or having to cover or over darken the tone.
          I still have not had time to fully test this, but I have tried a few songs that I was having trouble with and when I started to hit a wall I added more tongue root and was able to stabilize the note and reach a mix. The tongue root seems to be independent from the "Narrowing" of the pharynx and the position of the Larynx. Although it does seem that a lower larynx makes the tongue root a little easier to control.
         
  11. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    A couple of questions. Were these examples the "Twang" with the narrowing of the pharynx cutting off the Piriform sinuses or the Tongue root idea?
    and " Did you find that you could enter the Passaggio easier with less Breath Pressure?
    The two Middle examples were more consistent with a "Full voice" sound without sounding modified or "Fake".
  12. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Is anyone understanding what I am suggesting here? At a certain point in the voice it is beneficial to narrow(constrict) or widen(expand) the entire pharynx to adjust pitch. Not just certain areas such as the mouth or Epiglottic sphincter.  Is there a reason that I am off track?
    Also the difference between a strong Falsetto sounding High voice like Berry Gibb and a clean but adducted sound like DIO could be in whether or not the Piriform sinuses are closed off or open.
  13. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    People think of Pitch as a vocal fold configuration. A combination of Thickness of the vocal folds,How tight they are together, the length of the cords and perhaps how fast the air is flowing through them.
    As I mentioned before the voice has many different aspects that coincide with different instruments. Wind, reed, string etc.
    For example: A steam Whistle...Fixed tube and opening. Air pressure changes the pitch. As the steam pressure rises the pitch goes from low to high.
    How about those who make sounds with jugs of water: you blow across the top of the opening and the size of the chamber determines pitch. Adding and removing water changes the pitch. How hard you blow does not make a difference....just the SIZE of the tube, or space within the jug.
    A similar thing with Horns. How about a slide trombone? It is not the amount of air pressure but the length of tube that changes the pitch.
    And then of course you have the string aspect of changing the size of the thing that is vibrating, the vocal folds.
    The voice uses all of these. In vocal pedagogy normally ONLY the length or thickness of the vocal folds is taken into account, TA and CT involvement and HOW the vibration may be different. The other aspects are not taken into account when PITCH is discussed.
    I could be wrong but the term "Registers" for the voice came from the Pipe organ. I believe, in the pipe organ, one set of "Registers" consist of a certain number of Pipes of the same diameter but the length is different.This gives one set of pitches. once you get to a certain pitch the next "Register" is made of another set of pipes with the Same diameter to each other but different from the other "Register" with differing lengths for that group of pitches.
    What I do not know about the pipe organ is if Each "Register" has it own sound source or if the same source is channeled to each register.
  14. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Exactly, I know that it is not the best way to "Sing" but having a mechanical description of a configuration will get you in the "Ball park" so to speak. A general area.
    There are sounds that I have never made before so when someone just says "Make this sound" and go from there...I am lost and have been lost. One is the "SOUND" of covering in the sense of Classical singing. The SOUND is a result of a configuration, not a cause.
    I have gotten closer because of some of your own videos, but that was because you used "Sounds" that I was familiar with and put them together. Like the Dopey Yawn sound and adding the "Sound" of twang to bring that dopey sound forward.
    Just experimenting a few minutes ago I could sing between E4 and G4 by just(it seemed to me) narrowing on purpose as described in this video. Did other things happen too? Probably. But I would lock up before without using a lot of effort. The only effort was Constricting(Lightly) above the larynx. Perhaps other things inside the larynx were able to do there thing easier because of the change in the pharynx.
  15. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Another few thoughts if there is anyone out there reading......I had a chance to try these ideas "the middle constrictor muscle" as the catalyst for twang and the Root of the Tongue for Squillo or just a means of getting better vocal fold closure......
    Getting permission to USE the throat and its constrictors is almost like a birthday present to someone who keeps hearing "nothing in the throat" or "Open Throat".
    Also being ALLOWED to use the tongue muscles is in itself a breakthrough of sorts.
    I mentioned being able to sing in the upper range using "Other Voices" well, that pretty much gave me permission to use these ideas. To make your voice sound like someone else you use all kinds of distortions of your own vocal posture that in SINGING it is not allowed. Trying to sing in that range "Without distorting" the vocal tract or 'Manipulation" of any kind was the problem.
       So Felipe, Have you tried your song again while Purposely narrowing the pharynx for Twang or using the tongue root for brightness of tone?
    I have to say that both of these ideas had me singing D4 through A4 without sounding overly silly as usual.
  16. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    What are your thoughts on the video?  I have given all kinds of thoughts. Right or wrong they are only what was brought to my mind and a starting point for discussion. They do not need to be correct.
    Is it better or more beneficial to not use narrowing by consciously manipulating the pharynx or tongue root, or by trying to find these coordinations by Breath pressure, sound ideals and "Free" "Relaxed" throat?
  17. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to Felipe Carvalho in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    I think it's a plausible explanation for twang and it gives a mechanical context for it that, in my opinion, was pretty much lacking up to now, and with it the possibility of breaking it down and controlling on much more detail.
    For example, we can ask: Well what does it sound like when we do it? One of the replies is of course, twang, but that would be not very different from what we had before.
    But when we think of the mechanics there are consonants on Arabian languages for example that are based on articulation with epiglottal stops/fricatives/plosives/trills. What if we can use those sounds as a tool to map what is going on in that area? A gesture that is really no different from saying a consonant like T or P (just a different constriction place).
    I think something like this could be pretty significant because it allows precision when working with high intensity sounds, and with it more protection from injury and so forth.
    I do not see it as a replacement for other techniques, but twang is core to almost everything we do, if we can control it better...
    Ill try to put some samples together this weekend on a same song.
    My hope is to reach a clear definition that allows something like what I did with the *middle voice vowels* video, a step by step guide to it that works for a large number of people and relies less on imitation and more on simple mechanical gestures. Then again... It's not the first time I find some promising ideas on this sense lol
  18. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Look at the middle of the picture. The "X" muscle I mentioned is the Muscles that CREATE an X pattern. the Aryepiglottic muscles. Not "X" muscle as in random muscles. So when these muscles CONTRACT they pull on the epiglottis. Correct? 
    The idea about Folding is in the PDF. That has nothing to do with the picture here. I am asking the question of Why it would be the folding that causes the eppiglottis to move and NOT the muscles I mentioned. Perhaps it is both.
     
  19. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to Felipe Carvalho in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Well that's the thing, when people were studying the mechanics of swallowing  they looked for these muscles on people. Most people don't have them, and in those that do have them, they are atrophied (not used).
    And this is part of the swallowing mechanics, we do it all the time to eat, so it is also not something that only a few mutants do :P
  20. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to saqib09 in Basic singing course recommendation   
    Hi, wow, a response from Robert Lunte himself. Thanks
    I would say this introductory/basic (but comprehensive course) that I'm looking for will teach you, say about scales and intervals, the basic practice routines - how to sing with scales and what scales, etc. A little bit of breathing technique, warm up, etc would naturally accompany that lesson. But it would not be about breathing technique or whole workshop about how baritones can sign high and so on.
    If I can use guitar learning as analogy, and I feel this will make the point across - there are whole courses that teach you how to hybrid pick, how to play string skipping arpeggios, or course on blues shuffle and 12 bar blues. These would be the segmented technique lessons. But a basic training course would be one that teaches you the basics of reading, the basic chords, scales (major, pentatonic, and so on), intro to finger picking, basic jazz rhythm, advanced chords, two chords, soloing from scales...I think you get the idea. The course will not necessarily concern itself whether you can play the scales fast enough to be a pro or a live player. Naturally, the basic elements are there, which you can utilize to reach there. I hope this makes sense.
    Thanks very much for responding. Again, like I said above, your course seemed great to me (I looked at this one - BECOME A GREAT SINGER: Your Complete Vocal Training System). It's comprehensive, very well organized and detailed. I guess, I am looking for more emphasis on music (theory etc) and not so much on technique, which is surely very important but for my purposes it's not the focus.
  21. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to Martin H in Review of Twang and Squillo Research   
    Hi Felipe,
    I can recommend you look into "Laryngeal Biomechanics" by B. Raymond Fink. He argues that the larynx works as a folding mechanism (he calls it "plication" - plica is latin for fold) and not a sphincter mechanism. Firstly because there are no sphincter muscles in the larynx and secondly that the closing (twang or narrowing) of the airways is a result of "bulging" or "folding" of the structures. This was published in 1979 and has gone a bit under the "radar". I mentioned this at an Estill course about 7 years ago and also on this forum.
    In regards to the discussion of the tongue groove. This is done by the genioglossus. And the effect is a fixation of the hyodbone which stabilizes it and therefore other intrinsic muscles can close of or narrow the airway.
    The isolated "bulging" of the root of the tongue seen in the presentation is most likely a "folding" of lymphatic (Lingual Tonsils) and adipose tissue just behind the tongue according to Fink.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingual_tonsils#/media/File:Slide7ttt.JPG
  22. Thanks
    Robert Lunte got a reaction from sunlight99 in Achieve strong H3 (on spectrogram)   
    Great video Felipe. 
    You are correct. Singing and the process of learning to sing requires that the body learn an entirely new set of articulations and phonetics. There are speech articulations and phonetics , per each language... and then there are articulations and phonetics for another language called “singing”.
    this sis a powerful realization for singers to realize. 
    Also, think of frequency as a constant. The higher you go, the more exotic the vowels need to be and become. The lower you go, the less exotic and the vowels need to be. Although even the low vowels are still not speaking vowels.
    here is a video I did that answers the question, “why do we not hear accents when people sing”. This is a bit off topic, but the answer to this interesting question includes the similar observations expressed above.
    i hope this doesn’t seem too far off topic, but it sort of hits on the same ideas. In particular, NOTE the point about “homogenization of the singing vowels”. Enjoy...
     
  23. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to Felipe Carvalho in Achieve strong H3 (on spectrogram)   
    There is an adjustment you have to make yeah, the vowels need to change a bit, space in the pharynx increases, back of the tongue lifts a bit and soft palate also lifts.
    I did this video a while ago to address exactly this issue:
    Forgive how red I look here
    On this position, the spectra will appear more uniform and H3/H4 will start to peak as you get more control over it and start to use more intensity. It's covering.
    But I would also say this. I believe that learning this is very useful but don't look at it as an "improvement of resonance", it's just a different approach. As I show in the end of the video you can use different strategies that are equally valid and may very well sound better depending on what you are singing.
  24. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to sunlight99 in Achieve strong H3 (on spectrogram)   
    When I looked at Pavarotti's voice on a spectrogram, it almost always have the strongest peak at H3 (third fundamental), sometimes even from as low as a C4, so it's not only on notes at or past his passaggio. I then did the same analysis for a few other well-known tenors and most of their voices also exhibit this behavior. 
    When I looked at my voice I noticed that H3 is the strongest at lower notes, but once I hit B3 H2 starts to dominate H3, the higher I go the weaker H3 becomes. Granted I am a baritone but I can't seem to carry the stronger H3 through my passaggio, so I wonder if there is any physiological adjustment in my vocal tract I can do to make H3 stronger? I want to improve my resonance from this perspective. Thanks!
     
  25. Like
    Robert Lunte reacted to MDEW in The Difference Between Counter Tenors & Light Mass CCM Signing   
    Not only the level of compression but the type of compression also. Breath compression, cord compression and "false fold compression. Not to mention placement, And laryngeal position. The tone is more to the whistle or tube resonance for the classical counter tenor and more towards a cord vibration "Buzz" for the contemporary(of course this does depend on the artist and genre.
       
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